Washington bill (6569) would tax tobacco substitutes (including e-cigs) at 95%, referred to Senate Ways and Means Cmte

[brickfollett]

I agree that Provape's effort is disappointing. But what I do see is other WA State companies lobbying for the Vapers. Mt Baker Vapor showed up to testify at the HB275 hearing, as well as several owners and reps from area vape shops. B&M's are trying to get information out there, and if I am not mistaken Joe Baba, who is heading up the WA Vape Association, is also the owner of tobacco Joe's, a converted tobacco shop with several locations. The small businesses are helping in just about every way that they can, it's the larger companies like Provape that are late to the game.

Better late than never. Honestly I was surprised they even responded, since they are not a very "activist" company. No advertising, no promotion, just reliance on the name they've made for themselves. I applaud Provape for reaching out the way they did even if it was a bit late. I also applaud Mt. Baker. Both Provape and Mt. Baker are HEAVY hitters in the vaping industry in my opinion. If only we could get Joyetech on board... But I'm near positive they aren't an American company. Hoping this thing dies soon

 

[DavidOck]

Well, hoping we can get it stopped for this session of the Legislature, but I don't think we're ever going to get it "dead."

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance...

 

[normajean999]

While $.08 per mg tax on nicotine might be 10% for cig-alikes it is disastrous to eliquid and DIY.

Taking a quick look at a reasonable premixed eliquid online for 10ml of 24mg/ml was $5.99.
The amount of nicotine in that 10ml is 240mg total so 240 X $.08 = $19.20.
That is a 320% tax!

Worse yet for DIY, currently 250ml of 100mg/ml (just random online) is $20.99
That contains 2500 mg of nicotine so 2500 X $.08 = $200.
That is a 952% tax!

Looks like a win for BT to me.

Ok I know math is not my strong suit and I'm just trying to follow this but for the DIY bottle of 250ml at 100mg wouldn't that be 25,000 mg/ml and a cost of $2020.99?

 

[zoiDman]

Ok I know math is not my strong suit and I'm just trying to follow this but for the DIY bottle of 250ml at 100mg wouldn't that be 25,000 mg/ml and a cost of $2020.99?

100mg/ml x 250ml = 25,000 Total mg's of Nicotine.

25,000 x $.08 = $2,000

$20.99 for the Nicotine Base + $2,000 for Tax = $2,020.99, Yeah... Sounds about Right.

Is it Time to Throw the Tea in the Harbor? And to Start Writing some Representatives of the People?

 

[Alexander Mundy]

Yep, my math was off.
Edited post to reflect the even more ludicrous 9,528% tax!

 

[DrMA]

Yep, my math was off.
Edited post to reflect the even more ludicrous 9,528% tax!

Yep, totally obscene. As somebody posted before, it would be the same as taxing booze by the mg of alcohol that each container delivers.

 

[zoiDman]

Yep, totally obscene. As somebody posted before, it would be the same as taxing booze by the mg of alcohol that each container delivers.

I thought there were some kind of Law Against Unreasonable Taxation?

BTW - Where is All the Tax Monies going to? General Fund?

 

[9ball_AJ]

I thought there were some kind of Law Against Unreasonable Taxation?

BTW - Where is All the Tax Monies going to? General Fund?

It's slated for the Education Fund.

 

[zoiDman]

It's slated for the Education Fund.

Gotcha... Thanks.

 

[DavidOck]

The House bill, which just got passed! out of committee, says it goes to the general fund. Not even the lame excuse that it's "for the kids."

 

[Bill Godshall]

Today's action alert from WA Vape Association is below. If the proposed $.08/milligram of nicotine would represent >300% tax on a bottle of 24 mg/ml e-liquid, that's the best argument yet against the new tax proposal (as its more than three times the 95% tax rate that was originally proposed).


ACTION ALERT!
"Legislators are proposing a $28 tax on a 15ml bottle of juice. Call 1-800-562-6000 today and tell them vote NO on House Bill 2795 and Senate Bill 6569"

I realize many of you are already doing this. For those of you not doing this yet, TODAY is the day to get this going!!!!

Regards,

Joe Baba
WA Vape Association
360-348-2029

 

[DrMA]

The House bill, which just got passed! out of committee, says it goes to the general fund. Not even the lame excuse that it's "for the kids."

The bill is confusing. It says all taxes go to the general fund unless explicitly directed otherwise. The taxes on "tobacco products" get explicitly allocated to the education fund later in the bill.

 

[zoiDman]

The bill is confusing. It says all taxes go to the general fund unless explicitly directed otherwise. The taxes on "tobacco products" get explicitly allocated to the education fund later in the bill.

Wow... That is a First.

Confusion as to Exactly How Much and Exactly where Tax Monies will go.

 

[9ball_AJ]

The House bill, which just got passed! out of committee, says it goes to the general fund. Not even the lame excuse that it's "for the kids."

The first section of the amended bill describes how the tax "will increase barriers to the use of electronic cigarettes by minors."

"NEW SECTION. Sec. 1. The legislature finds that research by the
centers for disease control and prevention has shown dramatic recent
increases in the use of electronic cigarette nicotine delivery devices
by youth. The legislature further finds that decreasing the disparity
in taxation of nicotine used in electronic cigarettes and traditional
tobacco products will increase barriers to the use of electronic
cigarettes by minors. The legislature further finds that investments
in education, including in research and development activities that
improve public health such as those funded by the life sciences
discovery fund and those that contribute to tobacco cessation, are in
the public interest. Therefore, the legislature intends to dedicate
revenues from the taxation of nicotine used in electronic cigarettes
for educational purposes.

Then later it appropriates the taxes collected from tobacco substitutes to the education legacy trust account:

NEW SECTION. Sec. 9. A new section is added to chapter 82.26 RCW
to read as follows:
(1) Taxes collected under this chapter on the sale, handling, or
distribution of tobacco substitutes must be deposited in the education
legacy trust account.

Regardless, it's absurd to think they can get away with this...

 

[Turnkeys]

I just spoke to Rep. J.T. Wilcox's assistant, (making calls in opposition, and thanking those supporting.) She confirmed that the bill has passed committee and is 2nd ruled. She also stated (with some tone of surety) that "they don't have the votes to get it off the floor."

Keep the phones jangling, people. Offices of supporting representatives (in which I don't reside) have expressed huge appreciation to callers from other districts.

(is it weird that a Hunger Games reference flashed into mind as I identified my "district"?)

Just heard back from Rep. Richard DeBolt's office. From discussions in caucus, if this reaches the floor, he will oppose.

 

[DrMA]

I keep trying to contact my own reps (who unfortunately are not on the opposition group) and keep getting stonewalled. No response to email, indefinite hold on the phone

 

[9ball_AJ]

I keep trying to contact my own reps (who unfortunately are not on the opposition group) and keep getting stonewalled. No response to email, indefinite hold on the phone

Try calling the hotline and leaving a message with the nice gal on the phone. Give her your name and address and your position on both HB 2795 and SB 6569. A message will be sent to the 2 reps and 1 senator in your district.

 

[tybin]

Done................

Today's action alert from WA Vape Association is below. If the proposed $.08/milligram of nicotine would represent >300% tax on a bottle of 24 mg/ml e-liquid, that's the best argument yet against the new tax proposal (as its more than three times the 95% tax rate that was originally proposed).


ACTION ALERT!
"Legislators are proposing a $28 tax on a 15ml bottle of juice. Call 1-800-562-6000 today and tell them vote NO on House Bill 2795 and Senate Bill 6569"

I realize many of you are already doing this. For those of you not doing this yet, TODAY is the day to get this going!!!!

Regards,

Joe Baba
WA Vape Association
360-348-2029

 

[Turnkeys]

I've been trying to see when / if this will be brought to the floor, or anything about upcoming committee / house / senate discussions. The Washington State Legislature and Home are either not showing what's upcoming, or I'm not finding the right navigation. (Not a neophyte to this, but dayum!)

Can anyone offer enlightenment?
Thanks.

 

[ImperfectFuture]

Made a you tube video, forgive the shaking head (long story in other videos).

Washington State Tax Proposal, Editorial, HELP Keep E cigs a Viable Alternative - YouTube