FDA Were these guys telling the truth all along?

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Nate760

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We've all seen this infamous video clip before, where the seven tobacco company executives each state in succession that they don't believe nicotine is addictive:



For over 20 years it's been held up as an incontrovertible example of evil Big tobacco's willingness to lie without compunction to the American people and even to Congress itself. But were they even lying? Or were they giving an accurate answer to a question that was poorly worded? The question, after all, was not "Do you believe cigarettes are addictive?" or "Do you believe tobacco is addictive?" It was "Do you believe nicotine is addictive?"

I think it's safe to call the second guy a liar and a perjurer, because he prefaces his "no" answer by specifying that he's referring to "cigarettes and nicotine." But the rest of them simply state some version of "I believe that nicotine is not addictive." Given what we've learned since then about the virtual impossibility of nicotine inducing dependence in tobacco-naive individuals, is it fair to still call these dudes liars for giving what was probably an honest and truthful answer to the question that was actually posed to them?

Disclaimer: Please don't accuse me of "defending tobacco companies" or some such nonsense. I am doing no such thing. I'm bringing this up because I think it's a specific example of a generally unquestioned bit of conventional wisdom ("tobacco companies lied to Congress about cigarettes being addictive") that may very well be wrong because it's based on misunderstanding and misinterpretation. It seems to me that what actually happened here was that the tobacco execs understood the question better than the guy who asked it.
 

roosterado

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With the Additives in Cigarette like ammonia to make the nicotine almost instantly absorbed into the Bloodstream cigarettes are probably more addictive or addictive to someone who has never smoked before. Going from never smoking to E-Cigs or NTR,s may not be addictive to many IMO. These people
probably had access to Research showing Nicotine alone is not very addictive ,so technically speaking 6 could have been telling the Truth
 
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olderthandirt

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... Given what we've learned since then about the virtual impossibility of nicotine inducing dependence in tobacco-naive individuals,....

Nate, what did I miss?
I fall asleep at the wheel on a regular basis so it would be no surprise I would miss somethin' along the way....

I s'pose the "tobacco- naive" part is crucial. Point me in the direction of "what we've learned" please.
Not challenging yer post by the way, just old an cornfuzzled (-:
 

Nate760

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Nate, what did I miss?
I fall asleep at the wheel on a regular basis so it would be no surprise I would miss somethin' along the way....

I s'pose the "tobacco- naive" part is crucial. Point me in the direction of "what we've learned" please.
Not challenging yer post by the way, just old an cornfuzzled (-:

While, amazingly, there still haven't been any trials conducted specifically to assess the potential for nicotine to induce dependence in never-users of tobacco, there are valuable inferences that can be drawn from the trials that have been conducted on transdermal nicotine as a treatment for mild cognitive impairment in older adults. Not only does nicotine seem to show consistent efficacy for such treatment, but for our purposes, the pertinent thing to note is that, even after using nicotine patches every day for six months, no symptoms of dependence or withdrawal have yet been observed in any test subject.

Here's Pubmed's compendium of the relevant studies: Related Citations for PubMed (Select 22232050) - PubMed - NCBI
 

Kent C

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With the Additives in Cigarette like ammonia to make the nicotine almost instantly absorbed into the Bloodstream cigarettes are probably more addictive or addictive to someone who has never smoked before. Going from never smoking to E-Cigs or NTR,s may not be addictive to many IMO. These people
probably had access to Research showing Nicotine alone is not very addictive ,so technically speaking 6 could have been telling the Truth

Many of the additives were a result of the earlier regulations to remove tar and nicotine to make 'light and ultralight' cigarettes, which resulted in people smoking more or bypassing the 'holes' in the filters. Another 'unintended consequence of public health regulation that leads to even more regulation but blamed on BT instead of the regulators - > More nicotine and ammonia was used to get the 'nic hit' while still maintaining a lower tar rating. Wiki: "A list of 599 cigarette additives, created by five major American cigarette companies, was approved by the Department of Health and Human Services in April 1994." Imagine that! :)
 
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DC2

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While, amazingly, there still haven't been any trials conducted specifically to assess the potential for nicotine to induce dependence in never-users of tobacco, there are valuable inferences that can be drawn from the trials that have been conducted on transdermal nicotine as a treatment for mild cognitive impairment in older adults. Not only does nicotine seem to show consistent efficacy for such treatment, but for our purposes, the pertinent thing to note is that, even after using nicotine patches every day for six months, no symptoms of dependence or withdrawal have yet been observed in any test subject.

Here's Pubmed's compendium of the relevant studies: Related Citations for PubMed (Select 22232050) - PubMed - NCBI
I'm not sure if your link is the same as any of mine, but I've got a couple to share as well...

Growing List of Positive Effects of Nicotine Seen in Neurode... : Neurology Today
Obviously the results of small studies often aren't replicated in larger studies, but at least nicotine certainly looks safe. And we've seen absolutely no withdrawal symptoms. There doesn't seem to be any abuse liability whatsoever in taking nicotine by patch in non-smokers. That's reassuring.”

Nicotine treatment for ulcerative colitis
No withdrawal symptoms suggesting nicotine addiction have been reported either after 4–6 weeks of therapy in short-term studies, or after a period of up to 6 months in the only long-term study available.

Is Everything We Know About Nicotine Wrong? | The Mind Unleashed
One of the most respected researchers in the field, Dr. Paul Newhouse, Director of Vanderbilt University’s Center for Cognitive Medicine, argues that nicotine “seems very safe even in nonsmokers. In our studies we find it actually reduces blood pressure chronically. And there were no addiction or withdrawal problems, and nobody started smoking cigarettes. The risk of addiction to nicotine alone is virtually nil.” Tobacco has also been considered harmful because it is highly addictive, but whether nicotine has the same addictive potential remains unclear. According to Dr. Newhouse, “nicotine by itself isn’t very addictive at all… [it] seems to require assistance from other substances found in tobacco to get people hooked.”
 

Oliver

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Nate, we really can't say "the virtual impossibility of nicotine inducing dependence in tobacco-naive individuals" - I don't understand how you're coming to that conclusion.

There are (apparently) some instances of tobacco-naive nicotine gum users becoming dependent. I don't have a source, but it was mentioned during the Summit. Of course, it was mentioned as being incredibly rare, and was serving the point about how low the potential is.

That said, I've a different take on this, but following a similar line of thought. And it's something I've discussed with several experts in tobacco control. Essentailly, we can say pretty confidently now that nicotine is necessary but not sufficient for the tobacco dependence phenomenon.

Now, the Russell school of tobacco dependence holds nicotine to be absolutely central - but in fact, habit and nicotine together is what causes the phenomenon. The problem is, "habit" is a tobacco industry "talking point" and has been largely taboo amongst TC circles (along with any discussion of "choice" or free will).

E-Cigs have to a large degree highlighted the fact that the sensorimotor aspects of dependence are critical in understanding tobacco use.

It's kinda sad, because elsewhere in addiction studies all this stuff is well-known enough to be considered canonical. Sensorimotor, pharmacological and social - completely indivisible as regards dependence.

To answer your question though - did they lie? I've no idea, and your notion that they knew more than the questioner did is interesting. But why did they not, then, explain fully what they understood about the phenomenon? It's kinda hard to believe they were acting in good faith.
 

DC2

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The problem is, "habit" is a tobacco industry "talking point" and has been largely taboo amongst TC circles (along with any discussion of "choice" or free will).
Exactly.

And that's not only a problem with the tobacco control industry...
It's also a problem with the general public, and even with a good percentage of vapers.

I'm reminded of those quit-smoking programs that tout nicotine as evil, and the entire source of our "dependence".
This allows them to paint us all as addicts who will say anything to justify their use of nicotine.

It's a strategic play straight out of the Godber Blueprint...
Rampant Antismoking Signifies Grave Danger
 

Kent C

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Nate, we really can't say "the virtual impossibility of nicotine inducing dependence in tobacco-naive individuals" - I don't understand how you're coming to that conclusion.

There are (apparently) some instances of tobacco-naive nicotine gum users becoming dependent. I don't have a source, but it was mentioned during the Summit. Of course, it was mentioned as being incredibly rare, and was serving the point about how low the potential is.

West in the Second Panel not long after he states almost as an aside how second hand smoke kills :facepalm: ... said this @27:00 - "on the question of the addictive properties.....[this is where he suggests the psychological factor I mentioned] ..in the case of nicotine patches, you get a potentially high dose of nicotine in a product that is not addictive.... people are not 'breaking into' pharmacies to steal patches.
 

chargingcharlie

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I was off nicotine for 15 years and my intention was to go with 0mg in my vaping liquids. After I read about the positive affects it has with ulcerative colitis and memory/attention span (I have UC and ADD), I went with 12mg instead. I can say that it has helped me feel pretty relaxed at night and I'm excitedly waiting for my first solid turd in god knows how long.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

Oliver

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Free will and determinism is a topic of considerable controversy generally in brain sciences, even outside of the topic of addiction.

The only ethical perspective is to take people at their word.

If a smoker says they smoke out of choice, then they do so out of choice. If they say they do it becuase they're compelled by dependence/addiction, then that's the reason.

But, yes - the "all smokers are addicts" is absolutely a strategic play.

Exactly.

And that's not only a problem with the tobacco control industry...
It's also a problem with the general public, and even with a good percentage of vapers.

I'm reminded of those quit-smoking programs that tout nicotine as evil, and the entire source of our "dependence".
This allows them to paint us all as addicts who will say anything to justify their use of nicotine.

It's a strategic play straight out of the Godber Blueprint...
Rampant Antismoking Signifies Grave Danger
 

Nate760

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Nate, we really can't say "the virtual impossibility of nicotine inducing dependence in tobacco-naive individuals" - I don't understand how you're coming to that conclusion.

I used the qualifier "virtual" because it's generally best to avoid making absolutist statements; I'm sure it's possible that some tobacco-naive individual somewhere in the world has managed to become nicotine dependent. But the fact remains that medical science still furnishes zero verified examples of it actually happening.

There are (apparently) some instances of tobacco-naive nicotine gum users becoming dependent.

I know you don't have the answer, but it's reasonable to ask: did these individuals satisfy the clinical criteria for chemical dependence, or did they just chew nicotine gum on a regular basis because they really enjoyed it?
 
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