What affects the vapor production the most?

[The Easy Vaper]

What do u think affects vapor the most in order of importance:
So the setup is mutation x v4 on a snowwolf 200w, meaning lots of airflow
and high wattage as well as the possibility to build down to 0.05 ohm.
Also there is ofc the possibility to do dual coils, parallel coils but not more complex than that.
I like it relatively simple. So no quad fused alien inception wire or something xD

Factors that are not constant (meaning I can change them with a coil build):
- Ohm
- Heat flux
- Surface area
- Heat capacity (time to get hot)

Example answer:
- Surface>heat>ohm>heat capacity

Thoughts behind this question. For clouds, it might be better to build at higher ohm with way more surface area and heat flux compared to a low ohm build where you have to comprimise on the surface area or heat produced. Is this true?

 

[The Easy Vaper]

Opinions on this example build:
http://www.steam-engine.org/coil.asp?a=true&p=roundmulti&s=dp&r=0.35&hfnw=150&str=4&awg=28&id=4

 

[edyle]

Factors that are not constant (meaning I can change them with a coil build):
- Ohm
- Heat
- Surface area
- Heat capacity (time to get hot)

1:
What do you mean by "heat".

2:
I wouldn't have considered "Heat capacity (time to get hot)" as a factor in vapour production;

 

[The Easy Vaper]

1:
What do you mean by "heat".

2:
I wouldn't have considered "Heat capacity (time to get hot)" as a factor in vapour production;

1 - I mean heat flux.
2 - Well, I think u answered my question allready. What I mean was with a lower heat capacity the ramp up time of the coil is faster. Meaning it will get hot faster, therefore start producing clouds faster.

so if you take short draws, a low capacity will be nice for you I can immagine? right?
Anyways, if you say heat capacity does not rly matter to vapor production, is it wise to have a HC over 200? Or is the coil just too slow at that moment?

 

[Ryedan]

Factors that are not constant (meaning I can change them with a coil build):
- Ohm
- Heat flux
- Surface area
- Heat capacity (time to get hot)

Thoughts behind this question. For clouds, it might be better to build at higher ohm with way more surface area and heat flux compared to a low ohm build where you have to comprimise on the surface area or heat produced. Is this true?

I have never tested this and do not cloud chase, so these are my opinions only.

You left out power in your list of variables which IMO should be the most significant variable. However the variables are all interrelated. Ohms are irrelevant as long as HF, surface area and HC are where you want them. Heat capacity can never be too low, but if it's too high you'll have to deal with the long coil heat up time.

My coil design process goes like this:

1. Chose the power.
2. Chose the number of coils.
3. Chose the number of wires/coil, parallel, twisted, etc.
4. Adjust the resistance and wire gauge so the HF and HC are where I want them.

Then I vape the setup and make the appropriate changes to the next build to get what I want.

If you let the HF go over about 450 the coil will burn juice in normal operation even with optimal air flow and wicking.

HC numbers seem to work together with power. The more power the more HC you can have without noticing much difference in heat up time.

I have vaped a 0.8 ohm setup alternately with a 0.4 ohm setup using the same wire gauge in two Mutation X V1's at various power levels in a Sigelei 150 and found surprisingly little difference between them.

I know this doesn't exactly answer your questions, but maybe it will help you a bit. Good luck with it

 

[Bunnykiller]

why do you want clouds?? your juice got no flavor?

 

[stevegmu]

lung power is the most important factor...

 

[The Easy Vaper]

why do you want clouds?? your juice got no flavor?

Wel i got a istick 30 + aspire atlantis as well... Flavor for me on that thing is pretty good. I can also pop the MXV4 on the istick but yea.
Idk... i got a decent setup with the aspire but I wanted something extreme. Although im 24 ... i just like blowing big clouds which might be childish xD
But it is a bit of a hobby right now. I just wanna build some coils myself and get huge clouds as a result. Trying to learn all there is to learn about coil building.
I dont want to just do trial and error, I also wanna understand how the science behind it works. Otherwise I need to try out 20 different builds
IDk... i guess thats why i want clouds... just for fun mostly.

lung power is the most important factor...

Hehe... Idk but maybe im good on that factor. I used to do competition swimming and diving a bit. I can still hold my breath underwater for about 2 min with the right preperation.
Idk.. i hope i can do some good pulls

 

[edyle]

1 - I mean heat flux.
2 - Well, I think u answered my question allready. What I mean was with a lower heat capacity the ramp up time of the coil is faster. Meaning it will get hot faster, therefore start producing clouds faster.

so if you take short draws, a low capacity will be nice for you I can immagine? right?
Anyways, if you say heat capacity does not rly matter to vapor production, is it wise to have a HC over 200? Or is the coil just too slow at that moment?

At around 200 mW/mm2 the wire temperature is about right for vaping.
On steam engine you will see a green flame icon around 200mW/mm2.
Too high and it goes red; too low and it goes blue; it doesn't tell you how fast it gets up to temperature; the heat capacity figure tells you how fast it gets up to temperature.

 

[Froth]

What affects it the MOST is airflow, I have some adjustable airflow RDA's that produce quite respectable clouds built to 0.12 ohms with the airflow wide open(dual 3mm air holes) however if you close off 2/3rd's of each air hole you can't get anywhere close to the vapor production. So airflow getting through the RDA and into your lungs as efficiently as possible should be goal #1.

The main goal with any good cloud producing build is the ability to draw in as hard and long as you possibly can with a lot of airflow without cooling the build off too much to produce optimal vapor and without outperforming the wick you're using. The problem is that most people don't use the same setup, nor do they have the same inhale technique so what works well for one person may work terrible for the next. You should start with a 3mm coil ID and work from there, you want to have a very nice fat wick which can carry a lot of juice to the coils

For real 'competition level' could production you need an atomizer with at least four 3mm air holes or equivalent, you shouldn't necessarily worry about how fast the wire/build is able to ramp up in heat you should worry more about how long it can stay at optimal atomizing temperature during an inhale, this is why thin/narrow wire isn't used much in true competition cloud chasing as your deep/long inhale with lots of airflow can cool down the narrow wire as it cannot hold nearly as much heat. Wire such as 22G is very popular with builds that produce A LOT of vapor. Most of the competition style builds you come across will be lower resistance dual coils with thicker gauge wire, or some sort of equivalent.

 

[tj99959]

What affects the vapor production the most?

Lung capacity.

 

[Electrodave]

Nobody's mentioned ejuice composition yet. VG/PG ratios, etc. That also makes a big difference.

I'm vaping two juices in identical tanks right now. One is 70VG/30PG, the other is max VG. Identical tanks, identical mods set to the same voltage. When I take a puff from the 70/30, I get a nice cloud, but it's thin and dissipates quickly. When I take a puff from the max VG I can't even see my computer screen for a second.

 

[ImThatGuy]

VG and humidity.

 

[The Easy Vaper]

I tried out a lot of different coils, even a fused clapton although im just a newb with coil building. So far, the best coil was quite a simple build.

I made a 2 strand twisted 23g wire, 6 wraps coil. Made 2 of these, and the 2 coils together came out to be .17 ohm .... I get HUGE clouds... eats juice like crazy though.
Vape is quite warm, heats up quite fast too.

 

[Ryedan]

What affects it the MOST is airflow, I have some adjustable airflow RDA's that produce quite respectable clouds built to 0.12 ohms with the airflow wide open(dual 3mm air holes) however if you close off 2/3rd's of each air hole you can't get anywhere close to the vapor production. So airflow getting through the RDA and into your lungs as efficiently as possible should be goal #1.

The main goal with any good cloud producing build is the ability to draw in as hard and long as you possibly can with a lot of airflow without cooling the build off too much to produce optimal vapor and without outperforming the wick you're using. The problem is that most people don't use the same setup, nor do they have the same inhale technique so what works well for one person may work terrible for the next. You should start with a 3mm coil ID and work from there, you want to have a very nice fat wick which can carry a lot of juice to the coils

For real 'competition level' could production you need an atomizer with at least four 3mm air holes or equivalent, you shouldn't necessarily worry about how fast the wire/build is able to ramp up in heat you should worry more about how long it can stay at optimal atomizing temperature during an inhale, this is why thin/narrow wire isn't used much in true competition cloud chasing as your deep/long inhale with lots of airflow can cool down the narrow wire as it cannot hold nearly as much heat. Wire such as 22G is very popular with builds that produce A LOT of vapor. Most of the competition style builds you come across will be lower resistance dual coils with thicker gauge wire, or some sort of equivalent.

I agree with all of your post Froth except the part about keeping the coil hot. From my exploration of TC and the ability to monitor wire temperature during a drag I've found the temperature stays surprisingly stable even on really long drags. It only increases when the wick gets too dry or the air flow goes down significantly.

I've only done that excersize up to 75 watts, but I can think of no reason to believe it would change at higher power levels. Thick wire is definitely needed, but IMO it's used to help control heat flux at the power used rather than to maximize heat capacity.

 

[Froth]

I agree with all of your post Froth except the part about keeping the coil hot. From my exploration of TC and the ability to monitor wire temperature during a drag I've found the temperature stays surprisingly stable even on really long drags. It only increases when the wick gets too dry or the air flow goes down significantly.

I've only done that excersize up to 75 watts, but I can think of no reason to believe it would change at higher power levels. Thick wire is definitely needed, but IMO it's used to help control heat flux at the power used rather than to maximize heat capacity.

Yeah, my head is still stuck in mechanical mods I suppose. My post entirely disregarded that this topic was favoring temperature control, for what it's worth I had to read my own post a few times before I realized that I responded as though I thought I was in the Mech mods forum and that itself was the problem... to be honest I'll probably do it again. Perhaps this is what I get for constantly procrastinating getting a TC mod, but not actually ever following through with getting one.

 

[Two_Bears]

What do u think affects vapor the most in order of importance:
So the setup is mutation x v4 on a snowwolf 200w, meaning lots of airflow
and high wattage as well as the possibility to build down to 0.05 ohm.
Also there is ofc the possibility to do dual coils, parallel coils but not more complex than that.
I like it relatively simple. So no quad fused alien inception wire or something xD

Factors that are not constant (meaning I can change them with a coil build):
- Ohm
- Heat flux
- Surface area
- Heat capacity (time to get hot)

Example answer:
- Surface>heat>ohm>heat capacity

Thoughts behind this question. For clouds, it might be better to build at higher ohm with way more surface area and heat flux compared to a low ohm build where you have to comprimise on the surface area or heat produced. Is this true?

High VG Juices produce more vapor. I vape 70/30 ejuice that I DIY.

 

[Ryedan]

Yeah, my head is still stuck in mechanical mods I suppose. My post entirely disregarded that this topic was favoring temperature control, for what it's worth I had to read my own post a few times before I realized that I responded as though I thought I was in the Mech mods forum and that itself was the problem... to be honest I'll probably do it again. Perhaps this is what I get for constantly procrastinating getting a TC mod, but not actually ever following through with getting one.

I hear ya man ... vape technology is progressing so fast it's hard to keep up. I don't really try to keep up, I just thought TC was probably a great experimentation tool and wanted to learn how it worked too. I explored it for about a month back in March and then went back to VW. Kanthal is, IMO, really nice . When I wanted to get another VW mod with more than 40 watts capability everything I liked was TC too so I got a Sigelei 75 watt TC. No complaints yet but I've only had it for a few days.

VW opened up a whole world of coil design options for me compared to mechs. Separating resistance from power is huge and if you have not tried that I would recommend you do. TC not so much IMO. Its biggest claim to fame is allowing us to avoid burnt hits if you get it right, but I never get burnt hits from my RDAs so that just leaves TC with the advantage of being able to monitor coil temperature while taking a drag. TC is also not plug and play so it has a learning curve and it does add its own complexity to the mix.

 

[The Easy Vaper]

I hear ya man ... vape technology is progressing so fast it's hard to keep up. I don't really try to keep up, I just thought TC was probably a great experimentation tool and wanted to learn how it worked too. I explored it for about a month back in March and then went back to VW. Kanthal is, IMO, really nice . When I wanted to get another VW mod with more than 40 watts capability everything I liked was TC too so I got a Sigelei 75 watt TC. No complaints yet but I've only had it for a few days.

VW opened up a whole world of coil design options for me compared to mechs. Separating resistance from power is huge and if you have not tried that I would recommend you do. TC not so much IMO. Its biggest claim to fame is allowing us to avoid burnt hits if you get it right, but I never get burnt hits from my RDAs so that just leaves TC with the advantage of being able to monitor coil temperature while taking a drag. TC is also not plug and play so it has a learning curve and it does add its own complexity to the mix.

I guess the biggest change since VW came into the picture was that Ohm is no longer king, but surface area probably is.

 

[Hargendas]

In your condition, for vapers themselves, the most important factor is surely lung capacity. Next it's the VG content of the juice you use.