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What button top battery to replace AW IMR 18650 3.7v 2200mAh ?

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by cllmda, Oct 16, 2019.

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  1. cllmda

    cllmda Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    HI :)

    I can no longer seem to find my old AW Button top batteries to use in my Provari P3's.
    All my B&M vape shops now only sell flat tops...

    What rechargeable batteries can I get to replace these and work in my Provari ?

    Any brands out there that offer similar batteries ?

    Unfortunately Im in Western Europe which may make things more complicated but I'd certainly appreciate any advice,my old batteries are getting really worn down and I love using my Provaris...
    Thanks guys :)...

    Claudine
     
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  2. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    I’m not a provari owner, but I’ve seen several threads on this subject.
    There seem to be numerous opinions. There have been several threads I’ve seen on the various pros and cons of different solutions (there seem to be several). The biggest problem seems to be the button on top. Apparently some models don’t actually require one and some do. Really needing the button seems to make it harder. A lot of otherwise preferable batteries simply don’t have them. It is not impossible to add a button but there are problems. There are a couple of solutions that have their own problems, be they one or another kind of safety concern, contact quality, or difficulty of application.

    The one that often comes up towards the end is to buy a newer mod. The most common candidates seem to be (In decreasing price) a dicodes (if you can afford it), a jac vapor sandstorm, or an ageis solo.

    I wish you luck. There are people here who have done a lot of thinking and experimenting on this one. Sadly I am not one such, but given time they will appear.
     
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  3. greek mule

    greek mule Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 2, 2018
    Athens,Greece
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    Deer Camp
    I'm not a Provari owner either, but I was under the impression that the P3 doesn't require a button-top?
     
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  5. greek mule

    greek mule Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 2, 2018
    Athens,Greece
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  6. Pigs

    Pigs Super Member

    Supporting member
    Jun 7, 2019
    Sydney Australia
    I found some AW button top 18490s (an option but not necessary for Reo Mini 2.1) by phoning all the vape shops in my state. Eventually I found one that had 4 unopened in their box. The shopkeeper didn't seem to know what they were but sold them to me. Point being, new/old stock might be possible if you do some legwork. One other thing to watch out for is that there are a lot of AW clones out there.
     
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  7. Topwater Elvis

    Topwater Elvis Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2012
    Texas
    The Provari P3 can use either flat top or button top cells.
    No problem using flat top if they're easier to source.
    The P3's battery IQ feature is quite sensitive, a quality name brand 15a - 20a CDR cell bought from a known reputable source would be the best choice.
     
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  8. 10x sugar

    10x sugar Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 13, 2013
    OC, NJ
    @Rossum is correct. Only the 2.5 and earlier models required buttons. The Classic can use buttons or flat tops. The P3 and later models including the Radius use flat tops. AFAIK
     
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  9. greek mule

    greek mule Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 2, 2018
    Athens,Greece
    QUOTE from a post by @Baditude
    "FYI, AW hasn't made any batteries in years since their factory was destroyed by a flood. Yes, RTD lists AW batteries on their website, but if you look closely it says,

    "Enter your email address to be notified when this item is back in stock."


    It has said this for all the AW batteries for a couple of years, at least. Any vendor who lists AW batteries for sale and in stock is selling counterfeits. (Ali Express)"

    Either the AW batteries you purchased are counterfeits or 3 plus years old.
     
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  10. greek mule

    greek mule Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 2, 2018
    Athens,Greece
    Lithium-ion battery self discharge rate: 5% over the first 24 hours,(assuming they were fully charged) then 1-2% per month afterwards.

    Quote from Batitude's blog.

    "When a li-ion battery drops bellow 2,0 V or so, the chopper electrode inside of it literally starts to dissolve.
    When the battery is recharged this dissolved metal is plated back onto parts of battery that should not be conductive.This can cause an internal short-cirquit which can lead to overheating,venting,or even bursting of the battery."
    @Pigs do you remember if these batteries holded a charge when you received them, above 2.5V?
    If not,toss them.
     
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  11. Pigs

    Pigs Super Member

    Supporting member
    Jun 7, 2019
    Sydney Australia
    I know the story. It's a lottery but if you buy new/old stock at least there's a slight chance of getting a 3yo original. I've got probably 60 or 70 batteries (mostly 18650) of the most common brands and plenty of 4 yo batteries are fine if you look after them
     
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  12. Pigs

    Pigs Super Member

    Supporting member
    Jun 7, 2019
    Sydney Australia
    Yes without even asking the vendor put them on a charger and saw between 4 and 4.2 V. That immediately made me think they might be ok - not clones.
    I'm a bit of a battery nerd and super careful
     
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  13. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    It’s true they don’t age like living things and “age” has more to do with how many discharge cycles they have done. The thing is lithium batteries lose charge over time at a rate that varies by battery quality and how many cycles they have experienced. If a battery gets too low I have been informed it can no longer be recharged. If “Taking care of them” means regularly checking charge levels and maintaining them I suppose it’s not impossible they’re still usable to one extent or another. Seems unlikely though, and the very worn ones could be a serious pita to maintain. A lot of electric cars have systems that do this stuff automatically which is why their batteries can last a long time. It’s one of those things that can not afford screw ups though which makes me concerned that your gigantic battery collection may not be in the shape you think it is.
     
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  14. Pigs

    Pigs Super Member

    Supporting member
    Jun 7, 2019
    Sydney Australia
    Thanks for your concern bombastinator but my "gigantic battery collection" is doing ok.
    I always retire my batteries when they are past the safe/practical point of holding a charge and nothing is ever a "pita" if you know what you're doing and don't mind paying attention to detail.

    I stick to the basics as outlined by Mooch in his brilliant Minding Your Mahs series.
    Number 22 is particularly helpful.
     
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  15. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    it’s true PITA is in the eye of the beholder. “Nothing” is a big word though. If doing that level of maintenance on 70 batteries is within the scope of things you think of as fun then power to you. Me I’ve got 10 and I have trouble with it
     
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  16. greek mule

    greek mule Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 2, 2018
    Athens,Greece
    These batteries if they are OG are at least 3 years old so they must had left almost 2.5V charge.
    The fact that they came at 4V charge means the shop owner charged them before selling them to you.Don't trust these batteries for your own safe.
     
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  17. Pigs

    Pigs Super Member

    Supporting member
    Jun 7, 2019
    Sydney Australia
    That makes sense. I think I'll stick with the Basen Black 18500s. Bought direct from Basen in China so no clone possibility there!
     
  18. greek mule

    greek mule Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 2, 2018
    Athens,Greece
    Basen are not good batteries.And rewraped ones.
     
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  19. Pigs

    Pigs Super Member

    Supporting member
    Jun 7, 2019
    Sydney Australia
    According to Mooch they have a true CDR of 12A (not 22A as stated by the manufacturer). He rates them pretty highly so I'll continue to use them

    Comments
    • At 10A continuous it reached about 1081mAh. This is too high for an 1100mAh cell but is great performance for a 1200mAh cell at 10A so I am rating this cell at 1200mAh.
    • At 15A continuous the temperature rose to 69°C. This is below the average voltage of a cell operating at its continuous discharge rating (CDR) but the voltage is sagging significantly. This indicates that we are operating above its true rating.
    • At 20A continuous the temperature rose to 84°C and the voltage sag was huge. This is clearly not a 22A cell.
    • I am setting a CDR of 12A for this cell. At above this level the voltage sag is just too severe. While operating any cell near its rated maximum current level causes damage to the cell, I would expect decent cycle life from this cell at 12A continuous.
    • I have included pulsed discharges but I haven't set pass/fail standards for pulse testing yet. The discharges were done at 5sec on/30sec off, down to 2.5V. One chart shows the entire discharge at each level. The other chart is zoomed in to show the first 5 minutes to make it easier to see the voltage sag at different current levels.
     
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  20. Mooch

    Mooch Electron Wrangler Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    May 13, 2015
    Li-ion cells do “calendar” age as well as cycle age. The cycle aging, being used, can age them much faster.

    There is a continuous buildup of certain layers when not being used that interfere with efficient operation over time and there’s always some continuous degradation of certain compounds too. It does happen quite slowly if it’s not warm all the time but it’s still there, robbing you of performance every day.

    Batteries just really hate being stored or otherwise not used. I recommend rotating through all of the ones each of us have rather than keeping some stored and using others.
     
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