What cell is under the Vapcell Black "38a" 18650 wrap?

[Violetti Usva]

From Mooch's tests (threads closed now, or I would have asked there) these cells look like incredible performers. I've ordered two as my LG HB6's seem to be nearing the end of their useful lifespan - hitting less hard at full charge and requiring regular changing and charging.

Furthermore, the Vapcell appears to have much less voltage sag at the 30a limit Mooch set than the HB6's anyway, so I imagine they'll become my new standard (until I find a 21700 mech I like the look of )

Being rewrapped cells however, I'm rather worried about the prospect of the cells under the wrap changing by the time I need to order replacements and would be much happier buying the original cell. Has anyone determined the most likely candidate for the original cell yet?

 

[stols001]

I sort of want to say that Mooch retested these and found inferior cells inside. I did search, but came up empty, honestly.

The short answer though, unless a vendor is kind of tried and true, you really DON'T have that assurance. There really isn't a way to tell, unless you have the ability to test the batteries yourself etc.

Good luck, I hope they perform well for you if you get them.

Anna

 

[Violetti Usva]

I had a feeling that was the case and I searched around too - I think it was just 21700 Vapcell cells that were retested and found to perform worse than their initial assessment. Some sites are saying its a Samsung 20S, which hopefully will be more readily available by the time I next need new batteries.

 

[sonicbomb]

If you decide to buy a rewrapped battery, it's a magical mystery tour. Your guess is as good as ours.

 

[dripster]

Bench Test Results: Vapcell Black 38A 2000mAh 18650...bit overrated but incredible performer

 

[dripster]

I had a feeling that was the case and I searched around too - I think it was just 21700 Vapcell cells that were retested and found to perform worse than their initial assessment. Some sites are saying its a Samsung 20S, which hopefully will be more readily available by the time I next need new batteries.

The Samsung 20S vastly outperforms it.

Bench Test Results: Samsung 20S 18650...hardest hitting 18650 right now, beats HB6 and VTC6A

 

[Violetti Usva]

@dripster I've read both of those threads and actually the results shown for the 20S do not vastly outperform the tested cell in the Vapcell "38a" black cell, hence why people said that might be the cell under the wrap. It honestly looks like you didn't look at the graphs side by side and let your prejudice against non-reputable brands get in the way of your judgement of the two. I'm not saying they definitely are the same, but if all we have to judge it are the 3 graphs shown for the 20S vs the equivalent 3 for the Vapcell you simply cannot come to those conclusions.

@sonicbomb that is indeed my fear - perhaps I'm just feeling optimistic, but if the Vapcell cells I purchase hit harder at 30a (indicating less voltage drop) than the more reputable LG HB2/4/6 cells, would that not indicate that it must be a Samsung 20S as that is the only reputable-brand 18650 that outperforms it?

 

[dripster]

@dripster I've read both of those threads and actually the results shown for the 20S do not vastly outperform the tested cell in the Vapcell "38a" black cell, hence why people said that might be the cell under the wrap. It honestly looks like you didn't look at the graphs side by side and let your prejudice against non-reputable brands get in the way of your judgement of the two. I'm not saying they definitely are the same, but if all we have to judge it are the 3 graphs shown for the 20S vs the equivalent 3 for the Vapcell you simply cannot come to those conclusions.

What are you talking about? I own a total of 22 batteries by Vapcell, 4 of which are Vapcell black 38A 2000mAh 18650, and, in addition, I own 12 × Samsung 20S.

The Samsung 20S hits harder, it runs for longer, runs cooler, and that is despite it actually is cheaper. Not much noticeable performance difference if you're on a regulated, but on my mechs I can definitely feel the difference.

 

[Violetti Usva]

I thought you were saying that those threads you linked prove that the 20S outperforms it, which they do not as they show virtually the same temperatures by the end of each continuous discharge cycle, same voltage sag at each amperage, same curve shapes and same difference compared to VTC5a and HB6. If you're saying you can tell the difference vaping them them that's different. Do you have any idea what cell is under there?

 

[dripster]

I thought you were saying that those threads you linked prove that the 20S outperforms it, which they do not as they show virtually the same temperatures by the end of each continuous discharge cycle, same voltage sag at each amperage, same curve shapes and same difference compared to VTC5a and HB6. If you're saying you can tell the difference vaping them them that's different. Do you have any idea what cell is under there?

Well according to 18650batterystore.com these Vapcells are rewraps of the Samsung 20S, and that could also be true seeing as Mooch added 18650batterystore.com to his list of trusted battery vendors not too long ago. My guess about these Vapcells is they could be low grade preproduction samples sold at a higher price in exchange for having early access to them, almost 11 months ago.

 

[Violetti Usva]

That's certainly encouraging - if I like them then hopefully by the time I need to replace them the 20S will be more readily available anyway.

 

[dripster]

That's certainly encouraging - if I like them then hopefully by the time I need to replace them the 20S will be more readily available anyway.

Several major vendors that are on Mooch's list of trusted battery vendors have already been having the 20S pretty much always in stock for some time now. So IMO it is more readily available than the Vapcell.

 

[Violetti Usva]

I'm incredibly reluctant when it comes to trusting new sites is the issue really - whilst most of my brain says "its on Mooch's list, it's fine" there's a voice screaming that the world is a scam inspired by The Truman Show designed specifically to screw me over whenever I try something new

 

[dripster]

I'm incredibly reluctant when it comes to trusting new sites is the issue really - whilst most of my brain says "its on Mooch's list, it's fine" there's a voice screaming that the world is a scam inspired by The Truman Show designed specifically to screw me over whenever I try something new

Mooch said he doesn't add a vendor to that list of his before having extensively reviewed an entire lot of feedback from the community. What makes a trusted battery vendor trustworthy is what they'll do in the rare event that they find out they've been selling fakes, but why would they want to risk their hard-earned reputation by lying about what's under the wrap of this Vapcell, when they already know beforehand the fact Mooch would soon find out about it if that's what they did?

EDIT: Major known vendors like imrbatteries.com, liionwholesale.com, illumn.com, ecoluxshopdirect.co.uk, and nkon.nl, all have the non-rewrap Samsung 20S in stock right now. So, about that Vapcell rewrap... I purchased mine at the time when the non-rewrap Samsung 20S was still nowhere to be found, but now that this has changed, why should we still be buying this rewrap by Vapcell, i.e. why should we pay more for less?

 

[Violetti Usva]

Because I'm a tit and I presumed that if the one site I've been using doesn't have them that they still aren't readily available? They were on a sale so financially it wasn't a huge set back to get two of them anyway...

I'm in UK so I don't think those sites are applicable but I will check out his list next time I need batteries if they aren't available still on fogstar.

 

[mimöschen]

NKON | Samsung INR18650-20S 2000mAh - 30A - 18650 formaat - Oplaadbare batterijen

 

[dripster]

Because I'm a tit and I presumed that if the one site I've been using doesn't have them that they still aren't readily available? They were on a sale so financially it wasn't a huge set back to get two of them anyway...

I'm in UK so I don't think those sites are applicable but I will check out his list next time I need batteries if they aren't available still on fogstar.

I'll give you a hint. I'm from across the Channel (Flanders, Belgium), and, I got my Samsung 20S's from the UK, for £4.39 per cell. I usually order my batteries from nkon.nl because I live about an hour's driving distance from the city of Eindhoven so I get really fast shipping from them (I always thought it funny you English speaking folk call it shipping, even when there is no water involved), but nkon.nl didn't yet have the Samsung 20S available at the time when I placed my order in the UK instead so basically, where you live the Samsung 20S has been readily available for longer than it has been where I live.

 

[dripster]

Some time ago, Norbert Polyak also confirmed that this rewrap by Vapcell is the Samsung 20S.
Samsung 20S 18650 30A Battery used in Vapcell 18650

 

[Violetti Usva]

Yeah I got the hint

I've got to say, these batteries hit really hard. I'm going to have to try a different build because they hit so much harder than the LGHB2s I'm used to!

 

[dripster]

Yeah I got the hint

I've got to say, these batteries hit really hard. I'm going to have to try a different build because they hit so much harder than the LGHB2s I'm used to!

Aliens Ni80 27g/36g 4.5 wraps 2.5mm ID dual coil build at .11 ohms is the sweet spot for me on a single battery mech using either the 20S or the VTC5A (or the VTC5D, Vapcell black 25A 2800mAh 18650).