What do you think the "end game" will be...

[WickedFish]

They do that with prescription drugs to protect their investment, but this would not be a prescription drug. At least, I very much hope that isn't what happens to it. I was suggesting it would be sold as an OTC drug similar to Nicotrol/Nicorette/Commit/etc.

If the e-cigarette legally becomes a drug delivery device, they will be the ones selling it. If the legal definition turns to tobacco product, then Big tobacco will sell it.

I think there is a third route.

E-cigs continue as an unregulated kind of " homeopathic preparation".
The little Mom and Pops go belly up and as more effiecient retailers streamline and grow.
It stays the way it is unless somebody screws up and sends out a batch of e-juice mixed with pesticide, or the Chinese add some mercury to their heating coils.

Then the FDA will act.

 

[BuzzKill]

I hadn't heard about that, is the process explained anywhere on here?

YES
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/1901-nicotine-extraction-method.html

 

[DC2]

YES
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/1901-nicotine-extraction-method.html

I had seen the information on extraction from Snus and was under the impression not much nicotine was actually coming out of that process, but this I had not seen before, so thanks for posting it.

I wonder how many would dare to do something like that, assuming it works.
And more importantly, how many would die in the process.

So assuming that there are people out there that would set up the proper conditions to do nicotine extraction in a reasonably safe manner, do you think they would set up shop selling it to others?

Would they mail it to you, or would you have to meet them in a back alley?

I guess what I'm getting at is, sure, there is a way around just about anything.
But how feasible is it in reality that we could get nicotine juice if it were banned?

 

[Twinkie]

I think they'll be banned the same way clove cigarettes are banned, but easier to obtain (not that buying them from Indonesia online is any harder than buying anything else online).

If you really break it down, what are they going to object to on the hardware, other than the atomizer? Batteries? Plastic cylinders? Good luck with that. Even the atomizer... okay, instead of a smoking device, we now own ridiculously inefficient incense burners.

And liquid? PG and VG are impossible to regulate without annoying countless industries, and then there's the nicotine... very dicey ground, to say the least. Nevermind annoying the tobacco lobby, you've also got legitimate uses for nicotine that have nothing to do with human consumption. How're you going to regulate them all? And if you do, who's to stop me from producing nicotine liquid "for pesticide use only"?

Just about every head shop, adult store, and gas station (geez, I sound like a sleazebag!) sells fake-pot "incense" and poppers labeled as "VCR Head Cleaner" or "Leather Cleaner". There's nothing stopping them from selling Twinkie's Nic-a Nic-a Roach Liq (other than the possible trademark violation) with "NOT FOR HUMAN CONSUMPTION" in big red letters next to a rainbow of 0-nic flavored PG and VG "for external use only".

Now... if someone credible could prove that they're safe and legitimate smoking cessation / replacement aids...

I don't buy too much in to "RAWR BIG PHARMA!" conspiracy theories, but consider national healthcare for a moment.

For national healthcare or against it, I can tell you having paid for it out of pocket, Chantix is fairly expensive. As taxpayers, smokers or not, are we collectively okay with paying $150 per month per person for Chantix, or putting the FDA blessing on something safe, inexpensive, and not under the realm of prescriptions instead?

 

[zbasspro]

They can no longer effect me. I have enough nic. to wean down to zero in the next 2 years. I have enough hardware to survive or the skills to make what I need if be necessary. It's not about ME! It's about the millions of others who will suffer.

It's about the person who didn't get the experience I did, and as a result isn't willing to extract nic if need be to live! I will march, I will protest, I will do whatever I have to to see to it that the next generation of my family doesn't suffer the same fate as the prior one did!

 

[brandon555]

Can you say WATER PIPE not .... ? or aroma therapy device or ???

Nic is the only thing we will have to worry about and you can make it very easily so ? look up eggplants more nic in them than tobacco plants.

According to Wiki there is only one cigarette worth of nicotine in every 20 pounds of eggplant.

 

[BuzzKill]

According to Wiki there is only one cigarette worth of nicotine in every 20 pounds of eggplant.

I thought I corrected that ?? Humm must not have , I got it backwards sorry . Eggplants have the most nic BESIDES tobacco plants !

 

[tokengirl]

What Twinkee said.

But what are poppers?

 

[Israfil]

Huh...google search turned up this Poppers - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia .
Interesting...the more you know eh?

Oh well...either way, I'm keepin up the lobbying and the fighting till the end.

 

[DC2]

They can no longer effect me. I have enough nic. to wean down to zero in the next 2 years. I have enough hardware to survive or the skills to make what I need if be necessary. It's not about ME! It's about the millions of others who will suffer.

It's about the person who didn't get the experience I did, and as a result isn't willing to extract nic if need be to live! I will march, I will protest, I will do whatever I have to to see to it that the next generation of my family doesn't suffer the same fate as the prior one did!

Good for you, and thank God for people like you!!
The "I gots mine" mentality really bothers me quite a bit.

I have about 25 years worth of atomizers, and I use generic batteries.
And I always have two years worth of nicotine juice, and I don't even need nicotine.

But I'm going to fight every single day, for those that haven't even heard of these yet.

 

[zbasspro]

Good for you, and thank God for people like you!!
The "I gots mine" mentality really bothers me quite a bit.

I have about 25 years worth of atomizers, and I use generic batteries.
And I always have two years worth of nicotine juice, and I don't even need nicotine.

But I'm going to fight every single day, for those that haven't even heard of these yet.

Amen! And my hat's off to you as well! boB

 

[SWestern]

I'm not sure why you'd go comparing vaping to "that" (and it's not "historically" illegal, "it"s illegal because our congressmen openly distrusted people of darker skin colors during the 20's and 30's, and that's not a very long time. Not to mention that "it" was in 3/4 of all over-the-counter medications of the late 1800's and was commonly given to children in dosages that would make Cheech and Chong wet themselves.)

Anyhow, I see it staying the way it is for quite some time.
The only thing the FDA can do, legally, is regulate the nicotine content.

On the up side, nobody here on ECF will ever have a problem getting e-cigarette supplies, legal or otherwise.

 

[DC2]

The only thing the FDA can do, legally, is regulate the nicotine content.

Why do you say that?

The FDA is attempting to ban them as we speak.
And they are still confiscating shipments and holding product.

There is a court case going on right now that will decide the future of electronic cigarettes.
Have you spent any time in the Campaigning subforum?

 

[SWestern]

Why do you say that?

The FDA is attempting to ban them as we speak.
And they are still confiscating shipments and holding product.

There is a court case going on right now that will decide the future of electronic cigarettes.
Have you spent any time in the Campaigning subforum?

Hey man, I did throw the qualifier "legally" in there. The U.S. government has been doing things illegally, by their own standards, for decades.
They can't *legally* regulate the devices any more so than they can a tobacco pipe, despite their ability to deliver a drug in to the bloodstream... What they CAN do is block shipments based on inaccurate data regarding "dangerous variations" in nicotine content and the inclusion of "toxic substances" in the liquid.

Last time I checked the FDA doesn't have any law on the books stating that they can halt the sale of a battery with a vaporizing coil attached, or the sale of flavored vegetable glycerin.

Now nicotine on the other hand...

P.S.

I'm aware of the case, I'm just stating the fact that what they're doing isn't exactly constitutional. Again, I'd like to see them stop me. Nobody here on these forums will ever be without simply because we have too many sources. I can order real-deal narcotics on the internet, readily... Good luck keeping me from buying nicotine.
I've been vaping for over a year now, I'm very well caught up... I just don't frequent these forums

 

[Zelphie]

There is an NRT device being produced now, yup....it vapes too.
Drug companies and the FDA will get their piece even if they make their own and tell people its better, safer, or whatever. Is called the Nicotine pyruvate inhaler.

I could see just about anything happening with ecigs, it all depends on the best way the powers can see to make money or reduce losses.

 

[Bahnzo]

Personally, I'm only worried about atomizers and nic liquid...I can make the rest. And I'm sure the sellers will find creative ways around any ban that could come into law. It's just to hard to regulate everything that goes into an e-cig.

That said, I think this will eventually end up being taxed like anything else...hopefully not as heavily as normal cigs are. Vaping has the potential to save a lot of lives; ignoring that and using it as an opportunity to make a lot of money via taxes would be criminal.

 

[Ostracized]

I love how those articles speak as if the inhaler and the gum and the loozenges are the only options.

Ban a current product they dont have control over... then make a similar product and say its the only one like it. Losing more respect for the government and its lackies by the passing minute.

 

[SeriousLevity]

Other threads have discussed how BT had set out to orcrastrate language in the FSPTCA. During the 1990's BT realized that agressive Congressional regulation of tobacco was forethcomming and inevitable.

In a very savoy political move BT managed to make modest concessions whith respect to advertizing, marketing and health claims to their products. Their lobbying efforts also produced language within that legislation that created a seperate classification for tobacco products as well as wording that specificlly protected them from being outlawed.

The true genius of the legislation however can be realized in the wording of tobacco's exemptsion from the FDCA which essentially empowers FDA to reasonably regulate tobacco products. In doing so BT not only shifted all health related research costs to FDA they also shifted product liability to those responsible for those studies, in this case FDA. For all practical purposes BT will never agian be sucessfully sued.

I have also read that PM is in negotiations with Rynun and awaiting the outcome of the Njoy vs FDA case. I am aware of the California AG's office establishing regulations for E-cig's. ( I've read them and most seem reasonable) As California goes, so goes the nation.

I suppose the last thing to consider, if it gets that far, is the conservative SCOTUS which has a propensity to side with big business.

Just food for thought.

 

[Daedalus]

As long as conservatives are the out-of-power party they'll continue to support underdog causes like the ecig. Notice that all of the vetoes on anti-vaping laws have come from Republican governors, and all of the legislation is being written and signed primarily by Democrats. BT has obviously been pushing a lot of money towards the left in the last two years but if they tide is turned in this years elections we'll see the exact same behavior, the party names will just change.