What happened to the "KangerTech SUBTANK Mini" thread?

[mattrix]

I thought I'd better pick up a few RBA heads for the SubTank before they disappear completely.

The last set of heads I got from fasttech had issues, and the current offering from fasttech have had mixed reviews. But I have had good ones previously.

Are any of the heads on fasttech worth considering, some better than others?

If not where else should I look? Remember I'm not in the US.

 

[classwife]

What happened to the "KangerTech SUBTANK Mini" thread?
...this one ?

KangerTech SUBTANK Mini

 

[United States]

It probably all leaked out....

 

[mattrix]

...this one ?

KangerTech SUBTANK Mini

Yeah, but it is closed; and I can't find a reincarnation.
I guess the STmini has finally gone the way of the dodo.

 

[RayofLight62]

Why.

I can't understand why. They work so well, and the square 0.5 Ohm coils are the best suited in my opinion.

And the RBA is all steel, and can handle 30 - 35 W.

Here, they started to disappear in May 2016, the TPD date in EU.

From what I understood at the time, it was Kanger that lost interest in them.

 

[MacTechVpr]

True there are a lot of great tanks out there these days with better drop-ins and rebuild decks…but the original ST and Mini are such consistent performers, especially if rebuilt to make best advantage of its capabilities.

Can't see why someone can't request for the subject thread to be re-opened for contributions. It needs to be supported to avoid being closed. Personally I don't think any thread devoted clearly to an article in popular use should be closed. And I'm certain there remain a great many as I do using several every day.

For that matter you can also visit the Protank MicroCoil Discussion!! thread which was and remains live and fielding even more posts on all the Subtanks than the above. Believe a handful of folks still monitor this one and will help if asked, myself included.

It's companion thread on rebuilding with strain to achieve optimal performance, Tensioned Micro Coils. The next step is where I live and would be pleased to take up anything on Kangers.

Good luck all.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Why.

I can't understand why. They work so well, and the square 0.5 Ohm coils are the best suited in my opinion.

And the RBA is all steel, and can handle 30 - 35 W.

Here, they started to disappear in May 2016, the TPD date in EU.

From what I understood at the time, it was Kanger that lost interest in them.

Like Joyetech and the Cuboid, they threw the baby out with the bathwater. Had they made a Subtank with a Protank 4 style build deck, 2 post they'd still be right in there today. But they gotta throw some new paint on that chassis every year. That's not innovation.

Lookie here…

Twisted center-lead (3-lead) dual-coil

• MacTechVpr
• May 31, 2015
• mactechvpr microcoil tensioned

Kanger apparently didn't like the idea of such rebuilding on their commodity heads so much and sealed the tops. Strain balanced tensioned microcoils in these square heads produced about the best I could squeeze out of them and agree, better than the RBA deck.

Good luck.

p.s. Don't discard please! I'll take as many of those open-top square heads as are out there. I use them to train others on how to wring out max production on ST's. PM me!

 

[RayofLight62]

Tensioned coils do squeeze the wick when they heat up and cool down, so they improve the e-liquid flow and Vapour production. But they are so difficult to build!

I achieved a similar result with Dicodes vape mods, which have an unique vape modality they call "heat protection", which pulse the coil at different frequency and on-off ratio, in a manner to "pump" e-liquid into the wick, by using a regular, non-tensioned coil.

Regarding Kanger coils, I still buy square OCC 0.5 Ohm coils, but they are all top-sealed.

Kanger shoot themselves in the foot when modified the Protank dual-coils to avoid rebuildability. Only a minority of vapers rebuilded the coils, but they all documented it in public... The newer Protank dual-coils tasted orrible, and that was their endgame.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Tensioned coils do squeeze the wick when they heat up and cool down, so they improve the e-liquid flow and Vapour production. But they are so difficult to build!

Really think so Ray?

I find it takes most 30 seconds or less to hand wind a t.m.c. up to 24AWG. A few minutes more to begin prompting oxidation by pulse firing once set (the goal). Merely pulling on the wire will not be enough to make it a spring. Or too much and you make the wind hot (stretch the wire lowering its res). So, I think a lot of peep's just don't know what I'm talking about…because they haven't quite got it. The technique really is simple, roll it…don't pull it or bend it. Done right the wire gets sticky by itself. You've achieved a balance of strain. Kids do it in a heartbeat making toy jewelry. For me, it's harder than most. Keep in mind, it's about balanced tension.

IMG_1070a

• MacTechVpr
• Jun 1, 2015

Tehnsioned Contact Micro Coil, MacTechVpr

Deep oxidation (for higher pwr) is more an art than a skill and requires knowing how this wind responds on a particular device under power. A bit more knowledge of Kanthal as a material, it's metal color temps, is helpful and gained with some experience on simple single-wire winds. Then better higher power handling…



How much a t.m.c. squeezes depends on Ø chosen. The advantage of this wind is uniform contact. Loose but adequate compression will diffuse (rather than vaporize) a bit more. The sweet spot (tight) for the wicking material usually yields better performance (density). Too tight tho and you'll increase the speed of flow (like squeezing a water hose). If you can dry out the coil quickly to the point of dry hits as you add power, you're over-wicked for the Ø. Eventually you find a happy place with your media.

Tension (strain) is in every coil we make. Using tension methods to wind has the potential to balance the strain across the entire element. The purpose of this approach is to ensure uniform oxidation. This apparently equalizes minute resistance differentials. It's quite evident in the manner in which the coil heats up as I've referred to in my writings as "the effect". In practical terms the resulting thermal characteristics (uniform end-to-end heating) help ensure more effective vaporization. Years of surveying users as to the diff between a t.m.c. and single-wire open or close-contact winds suggests a greater than 25% greater vapor/density output (the comp here to a comparable close-contact or contact, non-strained coil of similar mass).

The control of strain in rebuilding yields consistency of reproduction, performance and the potential of uniquely precise personalization of the vape. And it just takes 30 seconds to begin. The use of strain management in wind and installation I feel is the most over-looked and undeservedly unappreciated technology in the vaping universe. Vapers I've worked with outside the digital space of ECF, etc. look in marvel at this omission as satisfied users.

Regarding Kanger coils, I still buy square OCC 0.5 Ohm coils, but they are all top-sealed.…

Kanger shoot themselves in the foot when modified the Protank dual-coils to avoid rebuildability. Only a minority of vapers rebuilded the coils, but they all documented it in public... The newer Protank dual-coils tasted orrible, and that was their endgame.

I agree, it's unfortunate they sealed it. It worked better than the RBA and you could put some decent size coils in there. A bit harder for new vapers to achieve alignment and consistent tension but def worth the effort to learn.

Thanks for the nod Ray.

Good luck.

 

[RayofLight62]

Hello MacTechVpr,

Thanks for your detailed exposition.

I do a bit of tensioning in my RTAs, by an half-turn usually but depends, as you said on the diameter of the coil. By no mean I have your passion and scientific approach to coiling. I strongly believe that vapers have been left playing with wick-tru-coil devices without a feeble hint of direction on how to achieve a barely passable result.

I have reason to believe that the coil industry regularly utilise some well defined tensioning in both coil and wick to achieve some results which are unthinkable for us hobby vapers.
Precise coil tensioning, defined thickness of the pre-formed fiber band which is wound around the coil and its tensioning, are IMO the trade secrets for achieving wicking of very viscous liquids quickly, while avoiding leakages at same time.

I imagine you have noted how VG make fiber strands repulsing each other, while water does the opposite, it shrinks the wick?

This is due to the different electrostatic charge from the two very different liquids. It is another physics principle to elicit a pumping effect in the wick. Not by using water of course, but based on the fact that "more strands = more swelling" and that the state of the wick alternates between a wet - and then dry - and then wet... and so on, with a specific frequency driven into the coil, frequency which is peculiar to the wick diameter and "density".
This is the techniques I use most with my RTAs.

Good luck to you too, glad to met you here.

Anthony

 

[Frenchfry1942]

Glad I have four and parts. That is a vapeocolypse set. (Whew!)

 

[MacTechVpr]

Hello MacTechVpr,

Thanks for your detailed exposition.

I do a bit of tensioning in my RTAs, by an half-turn usually but depends, as you said on the diameter of the coil. By no mean I have your passion and scientific approach to coiling. I strongly believe that vapers have been left playing with wick-tru-coil devices without a feeble hint of direction on how to achieve a barely passable result.

I have reason to believe that the coil industry regularly utilise some well defined tensioning in both coil and wick to achieve some results which are unthinkable for us hobby vapers.
Precise coil tensioning, defined thickness of the pre-formed fiber band which is wound around the coil and its tensioning, are IMO the trade secrets for achieving wicking of very viscous liquids quickly, while avoiding leakages at same time.

I imagine you have noted how VG make fiber strands repulsing each other, while water does the opposite, it shrinks the wick?

This is due to the different electrostatic charge from the two very different liquids. It is another physics principle to elicit a pumping effect in the wick. Not by using water of course, but based on the fact that "more strands = more swelling" and that the state of the wick alternates between a wet - and then dry - and then wet... and so on, with a specific frequency driven into the coil, frequency which is peculiar to the wick diameter and "density".
This is the techniques I use most with my RTAs.

Good luck to you too, glad to met you here.

Anthony

Yes, I would agree with you…proper electronic circuits likely have to be stable for strain. Variability of resistance must be accounted for. So to my thinking, so should we if it is practical to do. My discovery, the new art I contributed here, was the revelation that human hand-eye-coordination can impart almost equivalent control as mechanical design in achieving stable res balanced coils. Because unique results are often far more suitable to our personal preferences we can ideally optimize thermal performance by way of uniformity in form and function (through oxidation) in a way that mechanical process cannot imo. Although anything may be possible, not likely cost effective. So we see production narrowed to a few narrow res ranges in commercial product. We as individual makers do not have any such limitation using strain.

True as well I believe, the methodologies of prep or curing of thermal elements involving strain would likely be closely held intellectual property reflecting the unique quality of a manufacturer's product.

For all of the above manual strain winding is a distinct methodology that greatly expands the boundaries of utility for average users to achieve meaningful baselines at equivalent or superior quality than what we see from the trade.

Don't know how long it will take for the vaping community to embrace this. But consider how important an arsenal of influence we might have if the vast majority of vapers were that self-sufficient. Enough to replicate their vaping center in one or more wind varieties. Easily.

You suggest it's difficult today. My discovery proved to really significant numbers I and others have trained that it was possible for them. For most in a few tries or lessons, many just one. However, it took me years to move beyond the skepticism myself. So I understand. The belief that it's easier to make an asymmetrical wind is common. Even as it is actually more work for most than using a strain forming method.

We tend to repeat what we see others do. I say, repeat it well.

Good luck Anthony and thanks for the comeback.