What in the world is wrong with simplicity?

[Moonflame]

He said if he smoked a lot he'd be more interested, but only if they were super easy to deal with. Thankfully right now he can make a pack last for about 3-4 days. One cig will last him 2-3 trips outside, although now that the weather is nice that may change. He's very interested in the bottom feeders with the big batteries, but since I have to spring for prom stuff he's going to have to wait a bit before I'll have the money. I can't believe how expensive prom is now. Tickets alone cost $100 for a couple. He's out of High school and thought he had gotten by without having to put on a Tux, but his GF is a senior and wants to go. I'm making him pay for it with housework . I'll probably do the same thing with a mod for him when I see how he likes the one I'm getting. They're so immortal feeling at that age that it's hard for them to understand how you feel after 20 or more years of smoking. It'll come eventually as long as I don't push it...I just try to keep him informed of new advances as they come along.

 

[JudgeVape]

I didnt see anyone say their starter kit was the best, nor was it said that it be the easiest solution to everyone's needs either. You're now injecting here. bleck however it was said that if every newbie just bought a box mod.... which I disagreed with.

I just said simple, several newbies have chimed in in agreement, but yet ya'll are still arguing against it? There neednt be an argument at all. I never said box werent simple, I said they are ugly. Yep my opinion, and guess what? My opinion is what most counts TO ME.

And what counts to YOU is only aesthetics, not the "simplicity" you keep harping about. If you really were concerned about simplicity, you would at least admit that a simple 3.7 box mod is a very viable option for new vapers.

My point is that a new vaper could have dramatically increased performance (both in terms of battery life and the quality of the vape) from a device that is more simple (no cone, no PCC, etc.) and marginally safer (has an actual on/off switch), at roughly the same cost by buying something like a Jambox.

Sounds like a pretty darn good option to me and one that, ideally, we should offer to would-be vapers seeking assistance with their first purchase.

If their sense of aesthetics still trumps these other considerations, that's fine. God speed and I wish them luck. We would all do well to recognize (and here I am not at all criticizing you) that many people use these devices just long enough to quit smoking and then toss them in a drawer. Vaping does not become a long-term habit or hobby for many who use these devices successfully.

Now, someone else said something about crappy e-cigs and people always upgrade. Not true, there was a dude that I worked with who bought one those stupid expensive automatic e-cigs with the prefilled carts, he loved it and continues to use it. He's not smoking nor does he feel the need to upgrade even after I explained to him the difference (including cost) of mine vs his. he's just one person I know of, how many more in the world are there? I think it's wrong to assume that all of those people fail and go back to smoking just because they arent on ECF and upgrading to promoted mods.

You know people who haven't, I know people who have, as do many others here. I have three co-workers who vaped to quit smoking, two with a 510 and one with a Leo. Only the Leo guy is still not smoking. The other two cited the inability of the devices to satisfy their cravings as the reason they went back to smoking. I tried to get one of the 510 guys to buy an eGo from cignot.com instead of the 510 before he started but he didn't like the fat batts.

My point remains and others have agreed, not everyone needs or even wants VV mods.. many people just want simple and complete with not alot of having to fool around with it. Take for what it's worth or dont.

There we agree 100%. I would never, ever recommend a VV, especially a Provari or a Darwin, to a new vaper.

I'm not upset about it as someone suggested, I was merely trying to present another point of view for those who may have forgotten what it's like to not know all the ins and outs of PV's.

I think you are jumping to a very fallacious conclusion here. I haven't forgotten what it was like, and I doubt most of the other folks here have truly forgotten either. I remember the day of my first purchase vividly. It was only 4 months ago, in fact. FWIW, my first ecig was a Riva starter kit and the kit came with LR 510 atomizers and pre-filled carts.

 

[Sassyonemeis]

Yes, I know of one woman, a coworker, who has gone back to smoking after purchasing way overpriced e-cigs online for her and her hubby. They are both VERY heavy menthol smokers, but more importantly, they WANT to smoke more than they want to quit, and there is that commitment factor.

They bought those units after NY raised the tax on cigs yet again, AND they were going to shut down the sales of cigarettes over the internet. They would have no choice but to buy cigarettes in NY and pay the extreme prices here. As it turned out, they didnt ban the sales of cigarettes over the internet, so they now buy them online and save money that way, because they WANT to smoke, regardless of the fact that both of their health suffers a great deal, her hubby is actually disabled because of it. It's a terrible addiction that I would love everybody to be free from, but they have to want it for themselves. These people in particular dont, they can justify in their minds the price of smoking (including health-wise) over quitting and using PV's. They bought automatic batteries that looked just like cigarettes, even down to the white batt with the filter looking carts. They want to smoke more than they want to quit. Could it be that had they purchased a decent eGo/Riva that they could have recognized the potential? Probably not because they want to smoke. Could it be that they would ever consider a box mod? Based on their initial purchase of an auto cigarette replica and final decision to return to smoking, I would say no way would they even consider it. Aesthetics do come into play, at least initially, and probably especially for women, then it usually grows into finetuning ones preference, which doesnt always lead to expensive mods or VV anything. I have seen quite a few posts from men who use the cigarette types because of their employment positions and visual acceptance of e-cigs or plainly just their preference for something that resembles a cigarette in looks because they just cant get past it, nor do they want to, they just want something that works, and many of the 510 cigarette looking PV's do work. Simple. I have seen many posts of people who continue to buy the prefilled carts because they just dont want to mess with it, so all they have to do is pop one off and pop in another. Simple. I have been on this forum since January and I have seen it play out on the newbie forums many many times. They jsut want something simple that works because they dont want to smoke. They even say this yet it is overlooked by responders who want to push their preferences of the hottest mod. They will even say cost is the major factor, and it is overlooked with advice to just bite the bullet and buy expensive mods. I believe anyone who is posting for advice has made at least some level of commitment to quitting smoking, but to be overwhelmed by the overly tech info and certainly pricey mods may be running them off, especially the meeker ones, or older ones who arent all techy and stuff nor do they wish to be, or spend days upon days researching thru the site.

 

[MissKitty47]

Secti0n31, it's nice to see you over here! The Blu forum was a nice way to get started, but I'm liking this forum so much better for the info...do you still stop by and post at the other site? I kinda gave up on it. I'm using an eGo now too...an eGo Tank system. When I'm frustrated at the loss of flavor from the tank, I just remember struggling with the battery life of the Blu...then I like the tank sooo much better. I'm also looking at this: Super T Manufacturing, Innovative manufacturer of electronic cigarette products. Now if someone had suggested THAT when I first started, I'd have gone running for the hills, lol!

 

[wv2win]

Sassyonemeis, for every one example you site that you think supports your position, I and many others who have been doing this much longer than you, can site 5 - 10 examples that are completely opposite to what you are advocating. I can specifically site 10 examples of smokers I have met who bought a mall kiosk device and went back to smoking because if the vast inconsistency and poor performance. Most of them called "vaping" just another scam. 3 of them eventually quit using NRT products.

The big difference between those of us who have been doing this longer than 2 months, is we have actually used 5-10 different PV's and know the difference in performance and ease of use. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I would bet you have never used more than two PV's and have never used a 5 volt or variable volt PV.

I think your advice has some merit in not overloading a new person with too much information but overall your advice has about the depth of someone who has vaped for two months and has only vaped on one or two PV's. If you have never vaped on a better device (which includes a good 5 volt box mod) then you have no way to make a comparative recommendation.

 

[Sassyonemeis]

MY POINT EXACTLY!!!!!!!! Thank you so much. I am a newbie, who is trying to speak for a population of newbies that are overwhelmed by overly technical information. I dont want to make a comparison of starter kits vs mods, I just want something that works that doesnt cost me a ton of money and is simple to use and will help me not smoke. One button is always going to be simpler than any VV mod.

I at no time said that veteran advice and knowledge is not important, nor did I say I was trying to make any comparison other than advising someone to bite the bullet and go mod when they dont even know if vaping is for them at all is like expecting a baby to walk and talk before it even learns how to roll over or crawl. I did not claim that there werent a population of people who werent happy with the very techy advice and info, I am only claiming that there ARE people who are overwhelmed by it and dont understand any of it, nor do they even want to, they just want something simple, cost effective, that works.

Yep, I have vaped for 2 months and I am completely happy staying with the PV I have, which to many of you mod owners would consider lame and a gateway back to smoking. You have to some degree proven that you have forgotten what it's like to be a newbie, and failed to acknowledge that not everyone even wants to move up to a mod, much less purchase one as a starter PV.

 

[Sassyonemeis]

and P.S. yeah some people will diss PV's simply because they CAN and WILL use any excuse to go back to smoking. Vaping is not smoking nor will it ever be, it's different and some people dont want different, but if they dont try it, they cant knock it.

 

[OMG!]

As a newbie, I too felt the overload of information here to be frustrating at times. There was also conflicting information, albeit from people whom were just trying to be helpful, but they were adding to the confusion. I have learned a lot, though, and am appreciative to the people here for presenting options so I could find the best way for myself.

Unfortunately, I am still not completely satisfied with my vaping experience because I want a 5v that looks like a cig. There is a "creep factor" in watching people suck on a tube sticking out of a box. To me that screams addiction even more than a cig does, but at least the cig is somewhat acceptable to the general public. Appearances do matter to a great many people. Telling people that they will never know nirvana unless they switch to a mod is quite disheartening to someone like me. I wish I would have never gotten the passthru because I'd most likely be happy as a clam with my regular 808 and carts. Now I know there is more but it's just out of reach because a box would be totally unaccepted in the business environment I work in. The 808 is an oddity but most people recognize it for what it is -- an ecig.

All that that being said.... the most frustrating thing I've seen, and experienced here, is when you are told that you have been ripped off by what is perceived as a sub-par company. No one likes to be told that they made an unwise purchase... especially when they are riding the wave of joy from finally being liberated from cigs. There are several people who frequent the newbie forum who are the Brand Police. IMO, they do more damage than the techie/mod enthusiasts. Once again, I'm sure they are only trying to be helpful but they really dampen spirits.

As a smoker you had your brand and never wanted to vary or upgrade. With vaping I do feel like I've acquired a new hobby which takes up more time and energy than smoking ever did... but perhaps that's a good thing to keep me busy and my mind off of cigs.

 

[throatkick]

As others suggested the greatest PV is the mind. No doubt.

How could I, a 3 pad smoker, quit with a tiny kr8 or 510? With the KR8 the battery life simply isn't there. With the 510, the battery life isn't there nor is the TH. I tried those years ago and never gave them a second thought. With the ego the battery life is there but the TH is lacking tremendously.

We can see vapor but can't yet enjoy the sensation of taste and TH over the internet. The only way to find out is to try things. That is where the credibility of reviews comes into play. Additionally, for reviews to mean something to someone, there have to be similar points of reference. The only way for that to happen is for both to have tried similar PVs.

I would say the best thing is to avoid "sets" or "starter kits" Get a cheap 5v passthrough, buy 5-6 different attys, cartos etc as well as the necessary adapters and you can try so many combinations for about $40-$50. Then once you decide, you can buy a VV or 5v and use the atty that you liked best during the testing phase.

The "ego just works" applies to general aesthetics and not to its ability to compare with other PVs.
I am certain something will come along to combine looks and functionality soon enough. Until it does, some prefer functionality over looks and vice-versa. Pretty simple really.

 

[JudgeVape]

I just want something that works that doesnt cost me a ton of money and is simple to use and will help me not smoke. One button is always going to be simpler than any VV mod.

Not for the first time in this thread, you just described a 3.7V box mod to a "T" while espousing the virtues of other "simple" devices. People can use pre-filled carts on those too, by the way.

The biggest problem with these devices is that they are not marketed as starter devices when they very well could or should be. Most people do not find out about them until they have already been vaping for awhile.

Frankly, the use of the word "mod" to describe every single device that does not use proprietary, hybrid batteries like a 510, nPro or eGo is unfortunate and is probably little more than a now antiquated reference to the time when people commonly created their own custom devices in their garage with a soldering iron and wire cutters.

 

[Jaguar G]

Wait, what? too much information is bad? Are we talking PV or BM?

Here's my deal.

I started with the KR808, and that was after almost pulling the trigger on Blu or Greensmoke. I found this site and sat there reading; finding the name brands I was considering were not as good as their marketing departments makes them out to be. Still I became frustrated with the KR808, batteries constantly needing charging (even the XL) cartos needed filling every night so I would have some to use the next day, batteries dying, etc. When it works, it works great, but the "fiddling factor" for me it was more of a pain than it was worth.

Since this site is huge and has so many opinions and success stories I figured there had to be something better for me. So I did some more research and bought a box, some 510 attys, a drip tip, couple 18650 batteries and a charger and now I couldn't be happier. My only expense since the initial investment has been another 13 attys (3 LR, I don't care for them), and lots and lots of juice, (I bought another box, but that was purely frivolous, my original one works flawlessly.) Like most, I carried a pack of cigarettes and a lighter for over 25 years, now I carry a Phidias, not much of a change in my opinion. And if you think that these look like they are made in someone's garage with a wood carving kit they got on their 10th birthday, I don't know what to tell you.

When I first started vaping I turned two people at work on to the KR808. One loved it and is still using it, the other quit using it not long after getting it. Once they saw my box and how it works, both of them want one. However, neither is fond of forums or purchasing online, so I offered to do a turn key purchase for them (minus the juice, they gotta find their own juice.) Tomorrow I will present them with their very own Phidias, two AW 18650 batteries and a charger, a pack of 5 attys and a drip tip. I have a wide selection of juice for them to try, so I'll take it all along with me.

So how will it work for them? I don't know yet; but I'll let you know after a couple months. Although they paid in advance I told them I would buy back the box and batteries if they decide they don't want it.

So my opinion is give the new folks all the info you can, they can take it or leave it. If they found they don't like what they got, they know there are options they have not yet explored. If they find they love what they got, good for them. If we only tell them to buy a KR808 kit, or a 510 or ego, and then they don't like it, they may figure that is the best that's out there so why bother. Information is never a bad thing, too much information is for personal exploits, not a PV. Maybe we should have a scale on cost, ease of use, battery life, etc. to try and help, but in the end people have to make their own choices with the best information available, limiting the information is not the answer.

Cheers,
Jag

 

[AlmightyGod]

What is simplicity?
Is it a starter kit with two batteries and an PCC with a few pre-filled cartos?
Is it a starter kit with two batteries and a couple of attys with few pre-filled carts?
Is it a mod with rechargeable batteries and a charger, and you buy attys and a drip tips to suit your needs?
What exactly is the most simple?
I believe they are all simple.

The problem with many new vapers is that they want to dive in headfirst without doing any research.
E-cigs are a new and evolving technology.
Just like computers and any other tech, it is easy to spend to much and get too little.
Those who do a little research first, can find what they are looking for after some reading.

New vapers who jump in and say, "I'm here! What should I buy?" Well, they might as well be standing on a street corner in the red light district, waving $100 bills in the air. It is a fact that many people will not be satisfied with the hardware which resembles a cigarette. It is also a fact that many will read this and buy it anyway. I understand the psychology of wanting something of a similar size to a cigaretter to break the habit. I also know that once many people vape for a while, that the need for greater satisfaction surfaces. Some may be happy with a 510, KR8, eGo forever. Many are not. There is no reason to dumb down the New Member Section. Why would we try to hide everything that's available? Is it not best to present the choices. We are all adults on this forum. Information overload is around us everyday. There are hundreds of choices just going to a Starbucks. Maybe someone only wants a black coffee, but sees the menu and decides to buy a no-whip non-fat triple grande upside down white mocha. I don't get the idea of wanting to dumb it all down. If there was only one way to vape, and only one option to reach the level of satisfaction needed...maybe. Everyoone is different. If you can be happy with a starter kit great! But you should know that there are other options available should you not be happy.

 

[Moonflame]

We really should call mods what they are "Battery Cases" for those fed up with having to charge every hour or 2. All of them can work with many different atomizers or cartomizers by ordering different setups or different adapters. I go in phases, sometimes I like the 510 and other times I like the 801. I can use either of them using adapters on my battery cases. When you get past that it's a matter of how often you like to change flavors or put juice in to determine if a bottom feeder or tank system would be best. I'm perfectly happy to vape the same juice for days on end, so a bottom feeder is perfect for me, other folks like more variety. Some days I do too, that's when dripping is handy. Some people like one thing for home and something small and inconspicuous when they are out and about. For some of us more power is imperative, I'm not happy at 3.7 with a regular atty. I'm hooked on 5V, my sister in law finds 3.7 is just right for her. But none of us would find what fits us if people didn't talk about the options that are available.

 

[Sun State]

I'm one of the newbies you all are talking about. Interesting you don't bring up the points I get most put off by. Not annoyed, just overwhelmed. In this thread people talk about interesting things (box mods?) and such but nobody posts links to what they're talking about (or examples of them) so we can learn more about it. Pics of course, now that'd be a perfect 10. All of this stuff I know takes a ton more time but helping new people IS time consuming. I read so much stuff I finally just made a command decision and got an ego-t. People here have been very helpful as I learned to use it so I don't have any complaints... I just wish we could have like major gold stars for people who go the extra mile with links, pics, definitions and the like for us new people. I bought a kit because I'm like the people some of you mentioned. I needed somebody to say, "here, buy this and it has everything you need". (And I've stopped analogs!)

Consider taking a tour of my workplace one day and I'd guess most people would have little idea what we're talking about. Same if I toured your workplace. It's quite a leap to think a brand new person is going to put together the entire vocabulary in a solid way that they're off buying parts to build their own pv, first time out. I vote + 1 million for kits !

 

[Jaguar G]

I'm one of the newbies you all are talking about. Interesting you don't bring up the points I get most put off by. Not annoyed, just overwhelmed. In this thread people talk about interesting things (box mods?) and such but nobody posts links to what they're talking about (or examples of them) so we can learn more about it. Pics of course, now that'd be a perfect 10. All of this stuff I know takes a ton more time but helping new people IS time consuming. I read so much stuff I finally just made a command decision and got an ego-t. People here have been very helpful as I learned to use it so I don't have any complaints... I just wish we could have like major gold stars for people who go the extra mile with links, pics, definitions and the like for us new people. I bought a kit because I'm like the people some of you mentioned. I needed somebody to say, "here, buy this and it has everything you need". (And I've stopped analogs!)

Consider taking a tour of my workplace one day and I'd guess most people would have little idea what we're talking about. Same if I toured your workplace. It's quite a leap to think a brand new person is going to put together the entire vocabulary in a solid way that they're off buying parts to build their own pv, first time out. I vote + 1 million for kits !

Here is what I used to carry around next to what I now carry around. More (all you will ever want) information here.

 

[pkj]

I can only speak for myself, but when a new member posts a question or requests help, I do my best to keep my answer(s) specifically to the questions they ask.

I would assume that 95%, or more, of the new members that are smart enough to ask for assistance or advice, are smart enough to ask a follow up question or get clarification, if needed. They have already proved themselves wise by coming here for advice & info!

Paula

 

[FreakyStylie]

Why not, a simple rechargeable power source, an attachable juice / heater supply you buy
like a pack of smokes. (no not cartos, MUCH more efficient, reliable, enjoyable)

Why not? Because there are only two steps to smoking. Pull one out and light it.

I'm just trying to be real. Everyday, there are posts from people who complain about things that I don't mind. Charging batteries is an extra step, so people will complain. That won't change.

I will say this though . . . if Tesla hadn't've been pushed out of the scientific community, our entire lives would be a lot simpler, and vaping could be just as simple as a pack of smokes.

 

[JudgeVape]

In this thread people talk about interesting things (box mods?) and such but nobody posts links to what they're talking about (or examples of them) so we can learn more about it. Pics of course, now that'd be a perfect 10.

I posted a picture of a $24.99 box mod on page 2 of this thread. A quick skim of the thread just now and I see at least two places where people have posted links to where one can be purchased as well.

Here is a link to the $24.99 3.7v box I pictured earlier.

 

[Trips1103]

I'm new. Been just under a month now. I'm more than grateful that people took the time to throw all the pros/cons/drips/tips and juices at me. Very happy that I skipping getting that 510 I was looking at.

Beginning is simple unless you, personally, make it difficult. Most vendors have a starter kit. Has everything you need to get started. Grab one that's affordable, looks pleasing, has good reviews ... something you're comfortable with. And there you go. If you don't like it you can return it. Try something else.

From there, move on, or stay where you're at. Some people will eventually quit the whole thing and not even vape anymore. For others it will become a hobby.

I'd rather have more information rather than less. I'd rather there be a lot of people more informed around me, able to help out. With a little self confidence it really isn't daunting. If I'm curious, I ask questions. If I'm confused, I ask for clarification. As for the acronyms, this site highlights them!

How much simpler do you want it. Really.

 

[progg]

Why not? Because there are only two steps to smoking. Pull one out and light it.

I'm just trying to be real. Everyday, there are posts from people who complain about things that I don't mind. Charging batteries is an extra step, so people will complain. That won't change.

I will say this though . . . if Tesla hadn't've been pushed out of the scientific community, our entire lives would be a lot simpler, and vaping could be just as simple as a pack of smokes.

I'm new. Been just under a month now. I'm more than grateful that people took the time to throw all the pros/cons/drips/tips and juices at me. Very happy that I skipping getting that 510 I was looking at.

Beginning is simple unless you, personally, make it difficult. Most vendors have a starter kit. Has everything you need to get started. Grab one that's affordable, looks pleasing, has good reviews ... something you're comfortable with. And there you go. If you don't like it you can return it. Try something else.

From there, move on, or stay where you're at. Some people will eventually quit the whole thing and not even vape anymore. For others it will become a hobby.

I'd rather have more information rather than less. I'd rather there be a lot of people more informed around me, able to help out. With a little self confidence it really isn't daunting. If I'm curious, I ask questions. If I'm confused, I ask for clarification. As for the acronyms, this site highlights them!

How much simpler do you want it. Really.

Oh, I bet you're one of those persnickety types who read and researched for a bit even before you asked a single question.