What is diacetyl, acetoin and acetyl propionyl?

[IndigoChild]

Hi there,

Can someone enlighten me on what diacetyl, acetoin and acetyl propionyl are? I just recently discovered that my favorite juices from Baus eLixir/VapingMe.com, Bionic Vapor and ITCVapes don't use any of these chemicals and lists them as dangerous - with the exception of Custard Assault from Bionic, which happens to be one of my favorite flavors. It doesn't contain diacetyl, but it contains the other two - acetoin and acetyl propionyl, and apparently most custard flavors contain these to create the custard note (according to the disclaimer I just read on BionicVapor.com). The custard flavors are my favorites, so I would really like to know what the latter two of these chemicals are. And the diacetyl, what is that? Does anyone know if Mt Baker Vapor uses any of these? I used to shop there exclusively... Thanks in advance to those who take the time to respond

Peace, love, and vapor,

--IndigoChild

 

[Skeeter812]

I'm happy to see that ITCVapes do not use these chemicals in their juices. They are one of my favorite vendors

 

[CMD-Ky]

I'm happy to see that ITCVapes do not use these chemicals in their juices. They are one of my favorite vendors

Why are you happy that your vendor does not use these chemicals?

 

[SmokinRabbit]

Diacetyl: Food Flavorings and Lung Disease (Diacetyl)

The other two are diacetyl substitutes, but themselves can break down (turn) into diacetyl (at least as I understand it).

 

[IndigoChild]

I'm Wiki'ing all of these to try and figure out what they are...

 

[IndigoChild]

WOOOWWW! It's really bad! Deadly lung diseases, precursor for Alzheimer's... See for yourself: Diacetyl - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Thundernoggin]

Remember also that the really important thing is that vendors have their juices tested by an independent lab. As we saw with the study by Dr. F. most of the flavorings listed as diacetyl free were anything but.

This might be helpful. Start around 1:24:30 or 1:25, Vapemania craziness before that.
https://soundcloud.com/vp-live/is-suicide-bunny-chock-full-of-diacetyl-the-vapemania-dust-up

 

[Mazinny]

I'm happy to see that ITCVapes do not use these chemicals in their juices. They are one of my favorite vendors

How do you know ? Have you seen independent lab reports on the juices you vape ? Did you realize that out of the 70 % of the juices testing positive in Dr. Farsalinos' study, most were declared diacetyl free by the vendor ?

 

[Skeeter812]

Whatever, I'm not getting into a pissing contest with you about it.
Have a good day

 

[Thundernoggin]

Whatever, I'm not getting into a pissing contest with you about it. Have a good day

I don't think Mazinny is trying to get into an argument with you. What has happened in this industry is that many of the flavoring manufacturers labeled their product diacetyl free when they actually weren't. So most e-juice vendors assumed their products were diacetyl free because they trusted the flavoring manufacturers. If an e-juice vendor isn't doing independent lab testing they really have no idea. Here is a quote from the ITCVapes site. I think you'll find the radio link above helpful.

All of our flavoring comes from companies that have stated that their product is diacetyl free.

Who We Are ITCVapes

From the study of Dr. F.

DA and AP were found in 74.2% of the samples

http://www.scribd.com/doc/238345295/Dr-Farsalinos-study-on-diacetyl-in-e-liquid

And now here is an example of how it should be done, from Ahlusion

Ingredients

We strive to keep our mixes as clean, and clear as possible. Our e-liquids do not contain artificial colors, gum acacia, xantham gum, Citric Acid (CAS: 77-92-9), Diacetyl (CAS: 431-03-8), Acetoin (CAS: 513-86-0), Acetyl Propionyl (CAS: 600-14-6) , or Caffeine (CAS: 58-08-2).

Common Ingredients

Flavorings: Certified Organic, Natural, and/or Artificial. All flavorings, whether created by Ahlusion or not are routinely tested and certified by an outside laboratory for chemical analysis. All flavorings used by Ahlusion are FDA approved, although not specifically for inhalation; however, through testing we are able to prevent commonly known harmful components (such as Diacetyl) from entering our production stream.

http://www.ahlusion.us/faq/about-our-liquids/ingredients.html

And from Mountain Oak Vapor

Do your juices contain Diacetyl?
No. Our E-Liquids do NOT contain this and we avoid using any ingredients that may contain it. In early 2014 it was discovered that many in the flavor industry mark/advertise their products as 'Diacetyl Free', third party testing showed that even though these flavor suppliers are giving us their word that these harmful and potentially harmful constituents exist in their products. We now know that the only way to be certain that these compounds (or any potentially harmful compound) is not present is to test the flavors ourselves.

That is what we do at Mountain Oak Vapors, all of our flavors are tested INDEPENDENTLY by a third party lab for Acetylaledhyde, Acetyl Propionyl, Dicaetyl, Formaldehyde and more.

You can rest assured when you purchase our products, they have are clean from these adulteration's.

http://www.mountainoakvapors.com/Articles.asp?ID=6

 

[t2ak]

This is seriously a huge issue. ITCVapes and companies that rely on their supplier to ensure their liquid is safe is a joke. All of these chemicals can be avoided to make E-liquid safer for use yet very few companies actually are actively ensuring their product is the safest thing they can produce. That in itself is terrifying. To know that there is brand new startup companies slapping juice recipes together and selling them to the public with no idea of what is actually in them is insane.

The BBC has already published a article about Ecigs containing diacetyl and Forbes has followed suit. With the FDA decisions looming this could not have come at a worse time. The sad part is, The vaping community has known about this topic for half a decade yet NO ONE but a select few companies have done anything about it.

Vape whatever you want as far as I am concerned. When It comes down to being a completely avoidable risk that now because of ignorance may destroy your right to vape whatever you choose, that to me is unacceptable..

 

[Mazinny]

This from the link Thundernoggin linked to :

I need your help.

I am going after the entire e-liquid manufacturing industry. Tons of people making e-liquid are risking your health and rights for profit. The sad thing is, it’s actually easy to eliminate the problem. Most of them just don’t care – about you.

The e-liquids being put out by manufacturers may be toxic, if not to our lungs, then certainly to our rights. Our anti-vaping enemies will take this information and run wild with it. This will lead to vaping use and sale bans across the country if we do no do something to stop it.

It looks like most e-liquid manufacturers don’t care. Some do – but most don’t. They are not going to change unless we force them.

Listen to the diacetyl discussion. Then press the manufacturers to show you lab results. Start with the e-liquids that you buy most often.

Here is an example on how to ask:

Hi xxx,

I have a question regarding diacetyl testing in (insert manufacturer name) e-liquid: can you provide me with a copy of a lab report that verifies that (insert name(s) of e-liquid that you buy) are diacetyl free?

What I'm looking for is something like what this company provides to customers (use Google Chrome to translate the page):

www.nobacco.gr/component/content/article?id=210

As you can see, a copy of the test results from an independent laboratory is available for every eliquid that they sell.

Can you provide me with a copy of the results of a lab test that confirms
that (insert e-liquid names) are diacetyl-free?

Thanks,

(insert your name)

If you are able to get a lab report, send a copy of your correspondence with the results to kevin@vplivenetwork.com

If the company gives you the runaround or some bull.... excuse, let me know at clickbangradio@gmail.com

 

[Mazinny]

These are the standards AEMSA has put in place for vendors to be certified by them. :

STANDARDS | AEMSA

Please read these and decide for yourself if you would feel more comfortable purchasing from vendors who adhere to these standards.

We should encourage our favorite vendors ( at the very least the ones established enough, who can afford to ) to join AEMSA

Here's a list of vendors who already have :

MEMBERS | AEMSA

 

[Skeeter812]

My statement was generated from the information listed on the vendors web site. Being new to vaping, myself and others as well have to rely on the vendor to state whether or not they use certain harmful chemicals in their products. Saying that, no disrespect to Manny for His contributions. I did read the attachements provided and I am in agreement that standards need to be set and followed by all vendors. I can see that this is one of the areas that will be addressed once the new regulations are in place.
However, I do have a question, on of the links states that directl is one of the ingredients in many of the food products we eat each day. Does ingestion of the chemicals differ from inhalation?
Thanks again for the links, I know you guys are passionate about vaping and want others to be well informed of some of the possible hazards that they could encounter.

 

[Mazinny]

My statement was generated from the information listed on the vendors web site. Being new to vaping, myself and others as well have to rely on the vendor to state whether or not they use certain harmful chemicals in their products. Saying that, no disrespect to Manny for His contributions. I did read the attachements provided and I am in agreement that standards need to be set and followed by all vendors. I can see that this is one of the areas that will be addressed once the new regulations are in place.
However, I do have a question, on of the links states that directl is one of the ingredients in many of the food products we eat each day. Does ingestion of the chemicals differ from inhalation?
Thanks again for the links, I know you guys are passionate about vaping and want others to be well informed of some of the possible hazards that they could encounter.

Yes, diacetyl has been approved by the FDA for ingestion, but some studies have concluded that they could lead to serious lung issues with prolonged inhalation.

 

[Soundhunter]

You bet this is a serious issue and you know who is to blame?US..The Vaping community at large..AND NO ONE ELSE!

AEMSA have been active for quite some time in trying to establish standards in what essentially amounts to the only thing in the world of vaping that is subject to attack by the FDA..Flavoring and it's contents. But instead of rewarding them by giving them the fuel they need (dollars in case anyone is wondering) by using vendors with their seal..we instead patronize and fund any Tom, .... and Harry (No mater how large they "look" or how cool their interactive, chat with us web page is) e-liquid manufacturer that has a particular flavor we find satisfactory.

In the end - commerce is commerce and if a juice vendor is making high volume sales with no standards to be met - why on earth would they care to make sure they are certified? Because they love you? Because they love vaping? really?? Must be a different brand of capitalism than I have witnessed on a daily basis. What really gets me though is the kicker..there are better alternatives..and my understanding is that a lot of times they are not even more expensive.

Want this issue to get addressed in a proper and serious manner..follow the advice above in significant numbers and if you don't get a satisfactory report back - change to one of the certified e-liquid providers and watch what happens. I love Suicide bunny but I am waiting to hear back from PIP about the contents of her juice.. if I don't get the information - no more purchases..this will be my de-facto standard from this point forward.. Will Pip or any other vendor care if I don't buy anymore juice from them? ..Hell no.. Will they care if 75% of their customer base demands the information from them.. you bet your ... they will..

When will we learn - The consumer is the one with the hammer--doesn't do a damn bit of good if we are unwilling or too freakin lazy to swing it.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[Mazinny]

You bet this is a serious issue and you know who is to blame?US..The Vaping community at large..AND NO ONE ELSE!

AEMSA have been active for quite some time in trying to establish standards in what essentially amounts to the only thing in the world of vaping that is subject to attack by the FDA..Flavoring and it's contents. But instead of rewarding them by giving them the fuel they need (dollars in case anyone is wondering) by using vendors with their seal..we instead patronize and fund any Tom, .... and Harry (No mater how large they "look" or how cool their interactive, chat with us web page is) e-liquid manufacturer that has a particular flavor we find satisfactory.

In the end - commerce is commerce and if a juice vendor is making high volume sales with no standards to be met - why on earth would they care to make sure they are certified? Because they love you? Because they love vaping? really?? Must be a different brand of capitalism than I have witnessed on a daily basis. What really gets me though is the kicker..there are better alternatives..and my understanding is that a lot of times they are not even more expensive.

Want this issue to get addressed in a proper and serious manner..follow the advice above in significant numbers and if you don't get a satisfactory report back - change to one of the certified e-liquid providers and watch what happens. I love Suicide bunny but I am waiting to hear back from PIP about the contents of her juice.. if I don't get the information - no more purchases..this will be my de-facto standard from this point forward.. Will Pip or any other vendor care if I don't buy anymore juice from them? ..Hell no.. Will they care if 75% of their customer base demands the information from them.. you bet your ... they will..

When will we learn - The consumer is the one with the hammer--doesn't do a damn bit of good if we are unwilling or too freakin lazy to swing it.




Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Very well said. 80 % or more of all vapers don't frequent forums at all ! It's up to those of us who do, and follow vaping news to some extent, to take vendors to task. From the vendors i usually order from, only one ( Mountain Oak Vapor ) is an AEMSA member. I will definitely increase my order volume from them, and will also contact my other favorite vendors to encourage them to join and/or request more information regarding their safety protocol.

 

[Thundernoggin]

Very well said. 80 % or more of all vapers don't frequent forums at all ! It's up to those of us who do, and follow vaping news to some extent, to take vendors to task. From the vendors i usually order from, only one ( Mountain Oak Vapor ) is an AEMSA member. I will definitely increase my order volume from them, and will also contact my other favorite vendors to encourage them to join and/or request more information regarding their safety protocol.

I'm glad to see Nicoticket is heading in the AEMSA direction.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicoticket/601322-diacetyl.html

 

[crxess]

Can anyone actually link to a real Study - Science - That shows the Danger of any of these in actual consumer use?
Not News Articles
Not Legal Briefs
Not Law Suites or Settlements

Actual Studies proving a clear and present danger?

The only documentation I have found is directed at Industrial Application. i.e. Production of the Flavorings using these chemicals in a High exposure / long term exposure situation.

 

[Mazinny]

I'm glad to see Nicoticket is heading in the AEMSA direction.
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/nicoticket/601322-diacetyl.html

kudos to the person who posed the question to their favorite vendor on their own thread, for everyone to see, and kudos to Kent for such an honest and detailed response.