What the new laws could bring...

[kaldaus]

A friend of mine works at a vape store and told me there plans if the new laws about flavors pass, Basically he said, Customers will select unflavored pg/vg blends with nic or no nic. Then buy "flavor packets" similar to how nicotine and certain enhancers are sold. I see a myriad of issues with this and think it will really hurt a lot more people. He told me that people are planning to suggest wrapping them in socks and throwing them in the dryer to mix them. Honestly if they think things are bad now if kids start getting used to putting stuff in e juice, and sending them to the laundry room is gonna result in them vaping tide pods next..... LOL.

In all seriousness I understand why this is the business model they will be forced into and I can only see issues with making every vapor out there a partial DIY person. I do think in some areas it could be positive for the DIY hobby it might just put it in the cross hairs next. Would love to hear some others thoughts on this. I hate this entire thing personally and wish people would .... out of each others lives and we would all be happier for it. Anyway look forward to hearing others thoughts on this hope you are having a good day

 

[bombastinator]

I’m still in wait and see mode myself. These actions have been precipitated by what is clearly false information from the outlook here, but here is not everywhere. There seems to be a great rush to get systems and opinions in place before truth is distributed. It’s something of a race between reality and action. I’m not sure which will win yet myself. Perhaps I am overly optimistic.

 

[AngeNZ]

In Australia - where purchasing any nicotine e-liquid is banned, they purchase Short fill flavoured ejuices, and then add their own nicotine base (purchased internationally) to it.

It also happens in the UK where TPD regulations state than you can only purchase 10ml bottles of flavoured ejuice. Vapers purchase a 60ml short fill flavoured liquid, and add a nicotine shot to it.

This site explains it

I'm very grateful to be living in New Zealand and DIYing

 

[kaldaus]

I agree with a wait and see attitude as well, I am doing what I can (adding to petitions, a call or letter etc.), however I dont know if it will make a bit of a difference. I hope that cooler heads prevail and someone says at least "adults like things like candy and fruit too". I think that beyond anything else gets to me its as if once you turn 18 you stop enjoying anything or that you just start LOVING the taste of tobacco it makes no sense to allow tobacco to be flavors. I feel like calling them e-cigs has made them a target, I hope if it does go thru eventually things can be re-branded as something new. I doubt if it could happen now. The main reason that cigarettes were banned was not that it was bad for the user but 2nd hand smoke, well vape "smoke" doesn't hell its barely noticeable unless being in an enclosed area and even then it takes multiple people or a bit of effort, and all anyone can even smell then is a light aroma. It has no to little effect on others, proven by all the people who successfully stealth vape .

 

[bombastinator]

I agree with a wait and see attitude as well, I am doing what I can (adding to petitions, a call or letter etc.), however I dont know if it will make a bit of a difference. I hope that cooler heads prevail and someone says at least "adults like things like candy and fruit too". I think that beyond anything else gets to me its as if once you turn 18 you stop enjoying anything or that you just start LOVING the taste of tobacco it makes no sense to allow tobacco to be flavors. I feel like calling them e-cigs has made them a target, I hope if it does go thru eventually things can be re-branded as something new. I doubt if it could happen now. The main reason that cigarettes were banned was not that it was bad for the user but 2nd hand smoke, well vape "smoke" doesn't hell its barely noticeable unless being in an enclosed area and even then it takes multiple people or a bit of effort, and all anyone can even smell then is a light aroma. It has no to little effect on others, proven by all the people who successfully stealth vape .

My hope is time is the enemy for BT here. They’re basing their claims on a fundamental falsehood and hoping they get legislation and general opinion in place before that falsehood is discovered.

Slow it down, disseminate information, get people to check the facts. The facts (the actual ones anyway) are in the favor of e-cigarettes. One doesn’t need to insist that people are wrong, just that their decisions be careful and fully informed.

There is a saying: “the truth will out”

 

[Strangebrew2]

I just don't like how everything seems to be boiling down to non-refill vape type products. Like no more RDA's or RTA's. Is that the current outlook of others?

 

[bombastinator]

I just don't like how everything seems to be boiling down to non-refill vape type products. Like no more RDA's or RTA's. Is that the current outlook of others?

Yeah. There’s a whole or of awful floating around right now, and it all seems to be to the gain of BT and the loss of everyone else.

 

[DaveOno]

I think we need to rethink the purpose of vaping.

We all know it is harm reduction. But we need to emphasize the other benefit.

Vaping puts us in control of our nicotine addiction. We can change the potency of our nic blend, control the power to the coil, and reduce our dependancy, if we want.

Towards this end, I think Juul (and others) must offer lower nic levels. Since the issue with the government is kids becoming addicted, the lowered nic would give them choice and control. I mean really, 50mg/ml or 35mg/ml is a lot. I understand there are many adult former smokers who only succeeded due to these nic levels. But once you vape only, you should have the choice to lower the level.

Also, I think all manufacturers should state the nic strength as mg/ml. I know teens who say "Oh, my Juul is only 5"

jsmh

This is too important a product. 8 million die each year from smoking world wide.

A death every 4 seconds.

 

[Horselady154]

I'm beginning to think that Trump will back off of this flavor ban. The numbers shown him and his associates on Twitter regarding the number of vapers in the states he has to win is serious stuff. I'll say it now, I think he will back off. I hope I am right. Of course, we will still be up creek in May, unless we can pull off a miracle.

 

[brad-man]

My hope is time is the enemy for BT here. They’re basing their claims on a fundamental falsehood and hoping they get legislation and general opinion in place before that falsehood is discovered.

Slow it down, disseminate information, get people to check the facts. The facts (the actual ones anyway) are in the favor of e-cigarettes. One doesn’t need to insist that people are wrong, just that their decisions be careful and fully informed.

There is a saying: “the truth will out”

There is also this one:

 

[kaldaus]

I agree that time is something that will benefit. Also I think it is important to have people look at the numbers your talking about millions of people vaping, many of them vaping homemade or other products, in all of that this is all that has been found with vaping being a target since it came on the market. I certainly think that it is vital that people find out that these laws are counter to anything productive. Prohibition on anything is counter productive in almost all situations it only leads to those willing to break the law taking advantage of those who want it. I can only imagine what would happen to the 2 million kids who vape if they now had to get there e-juice from the same shady people who put the Vit. E in the THC carts to begin with. I dont see how its possible to look and see the only places these things have happened in states that not only have no medical or recreational marijuana. I love making my own juice and love try others juices, however I take a lot of time and effort to research everything I put into my juices and make sure my suppliers are safe and certified, if they begin to chip away at these safe and regulated avenues and provide people only questionable at best solutions the results will most likely be much worse.

 

[kaldaus]

I think we need to rethink the purpose of vaping.

We all know it is harm reduction. But we need to emphasize the other benefit.

Vaping puts us in control of our nicotine addiction. We can change the potency of our nic blend, control the power to the coil, and reduce our dependancy, if we want.

Towards this end, I think Juul (and others) must offer lower nic levels. Since the issue with the government is kids becoming addicted, the lowered nic would give them choice and control. I mean really, 50mg/ml or 35mg/ml is a lot. I understand there are many adult former smokers who only succeeded due to these nic levels. But once you vape only, you should have the choice to lower the level.

Also, I think all manufacturers should state the nic strength as mg/ml. I know teens who say "Oh, my Juul is only 5"

jsmh

This is too important a product. 8 million die each year from smoking world wide.

A death every 4 seconds.

I totally agree, being linked to cigarettes is the reason they are saying tobacco is the only "acceptable" flavor. I think either a total re-brand or a soft re-branding to something that distances itself from traditional cigarettes. I think one idea is the medical market as well, there are a lot of meds that people could take thru vapor and having at least a portion of sales and users be "prescribed" would benifit the cause, on that same slope gets slippery however if it is taken to only be seen as that. I personally work with a lot of people that dont use nicotine but have had a lot of success with caffine and melatonine as well as terpenes of course. I think it is certainly something that would help elevate vaping as a tool and not simply seen as a smoking cessasion device but a multi use tool that must be used with care but that is true of nearly any tool

 

[bombastinator]

There is also this one:

I was always a much bigger fan of Scully than Mulder. He irritated me.

So you’re saying that what BT is saying is true then?
I kinda doubt that.

The facts about aliens are that there is no actual evidence of aliens. It’s taken a lot of time, but as time goes by the arguments are looking thinner and thinner. Same with “flat earth earthers”. They keep on proving themselves wrong.

The phrase “the truth will out” an old old saying. It’s als true the the BS will out though. People keep on coming up with it.

There’s another one. “You can fool all of the people some of the time or some of the people all of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time”. Abraham Lincoln, more or less.

What it means politically is a lie only has to last long enough to do its job, so if you want it to do so you have to do that job quickly.

They seem to be going for “all of the people” right now. They can’t do it forever. It’s why they’re rushing so hard. If decision making goes on too long facts begin to emerge. Sometimes they appear in time, sometimes they don’t.

IF the statements made here about what ecigs do and are are true they will eventually become clear. There has been a bunch of methodologies used to obfuscate them, but the biggest ones have been hiding real numbers behind hysteria and avoiding doing valid research.

 

[brad-man]

I was always a much bigger fan of Scully than Mulder. He irritated me.

So you’re saying that what BT is saying is true then?
I kinda doubt that.

The facts about aliens are that there is no actual evidence of aliens. It’s taken a lot of time, but as time goes by the arguments are looking thinner and thinner. Same with “flat earth earthers”. They keep on proving themselves wrong.

The phrase “the truth will out” an old old saying. It’s als true the the BS will out though. People keep on coming up with it.

There’s another one. “You can fool all of the people some of the time or some of the people all of the time, but you can’t fool all of the people all of the time”. Abraham Lincoln, more or less.

What it means politically is a lie only has to last long enough to do its job, so if you want it to do so you have to do that job quickly.

They seem to be going for “all of the people” right now. They can’t do it forever. It’s why they’re rushing so hard. If decision making goes on too long facts begin to emerge. Sometimes they appear in time, sometimes they don’t.

IF the statements made here about what ecigs do and are are true they will eventually become clear. There has been a bunch of methodologies used to obfuscate them, but the biggest ones have been hiding real numbers behind hysteria and avoiding doing valid research.

The clip doesn't mention aliens, only untruths given to the public by government.

 

[ScottP]

A friend of mine works at a vape store and told me there plans if the new laws about flavors pass, Basically he said, Customers will select unflavored pg/vg blends with nic or no nic. Then buy "flavor packets" similar to how nicotine and certain enhancers are sold. I see a myriad of issues with this and think it will really hurt a lot more people. He told me that people are planning to suggest wrapping them in socks and throwing them in the dryer to mix them. Honestly if they think things are bad now if kids start getting used to putting stuff in e juice, and sending them to the laundry room is gonna result in them vaping tide pods next..... LOL.

In all seriousness I understand why this is the business model they will be forced into and I can only see issues with making every vapor out there a partial DIY person. I do think in some areas it could be positive for the DIY hobby it might just put it in the cross hairs next. Would love to hear some others thoughts on this. I hate this entire thing personally and wish people would .... out of each others lives and we would all be happier for it. Anyway look forward to hearing others thoughts on this hope you are having a good day

I thought that would be the future model as well, then they started talking about banning any devices that could be refilled. If that goes through then closed non-refillable pod garbage is all that will be left.

 

[AvaOrchid]

I think we need to rethink the purpose of vaping.

We all know it is harm reduction. But we need to emphasize the other benefit.

Vaping puts us in control of our nicotine addiction. We can change the potency of our nic blend, control the power to the coil, and reduce our dependancy, if we want.

Towards this end, I think Juul (and others) must offer lower nic levels. Since the issue with the government is kids becoming addicted, the lowered nic would give them choice and control. I mean really, 50mg/ml or 35mg/ml is a lot. I understand there are many adult former smokers who only succeeded due to these nic levels. But once you vape only, you should have the choice to lower the level.

Also, I think all manufacturers should state the nic strength as mg/ml. I know teens who say "Oh, my Juul is only 5"

jsmh

This is too important a product. 8 million die each year from smoking world wide.

A death every 4 seconds.

When I first quit cigarettes I first tried a juul like device and honestly I would never have quit smoking cigarettes had that been my only option not because it didn't help me with my nicotine craving but because it made me feel like I did the first time I smoked a cigarette it gave me sort of a high and a dizziness and my throat hurt and I started coughing. Even when I was smoking two packs of cigarettes a day I never felt like that they really need to offer lower levels of nicotine and should also offer a no nicotine option if they don't already especially if everybody that doesn't do it yourself ends up stuck with those type of systems even though those were the ones that were marketed children primarily. It seemed sort of ironic to me that the company that is most responsible for all of this is going to likely be the company that wins in the end proving that if you Market to children not in your flavors but in your advertisement and have connections to Big tobacco you can bring down your competition through your illicit activity get rid of the competition by using the FDA as your assassin and then reign supreme in your monopoli that selling to minors and encouraging kids to smoke created. America is so anti harm reduction and everything it does that it almost makes sense that the company most responsible Juul is going to likely be the Survivor it's almost like they planned it LOL I feel like they're basically going to use all the profits they got from minors vaping 2 benefit them in keeping their product legal while making everyone else illegal.

 

[AngeNZ]

I think we need to rethink the purpose of vaping.

We all know it is harm reduction. But we need to emphasize the other benefit.

Vaping puts us in control of our nicotine addiction. We can change the potency of our nic blend, control the power to the coil, and reduce our dependancy, if we want.

Towards this end, I think Juul (and others) must offer lower nic levels. Since the issue with the government is kids becoming addicted, the lowered nic would give them choice and control. I mean really, 50mg/ml or 35mg/ml is a lot. I understand there are many adult former smokers who only succeeded due to these nic levels. But once you vape only, you should have the choice to lower the level.

Also, I think all manufacturers should state the nic strength as mg/ml. I know teens who say "Oh, my Juul is only 5"

jsmh

This is too important a product. 8 million die each year from smoking world wide.

A death every 4 seconds.

I agree completely with this and I think it's a point missed by a lot of people.

In the UK, JUUL's pods are capped at 22mg - the max allowed due to the UK regulations. The UK also don't allow advertisements on TV, radio or social media - so the Teen market is not getting the exposure it does in other places.

This article explains in more details:
https://edition-m.cnn.com/2019/09/17/health/vaping-us-uk-e-cigarette-differences-intl/index.html

 

[kaldaus]

allow me to tin foil hat a moment, just a bit
:affixes said tin foil:
I dont trust juul its owned by Phillip Morris its recently first started many "vaping controversies"
1.young advertising
2.flavors
3. attainability *sold EVERYWHERE
along with some others however after each one of these "controversies" they have caved within days. Advertising stopped completely and issues multiple "apologies" and gave money to start funds to stop kids vaping. While this happened the youth market which previously had died for Phillip Morris became a HUGE cash cow. Kids rarely frequent vape shops use mods or are into it as a hobby. They use juul because it was intended to help smokers and it really does a great job *my significant other was only successful with juuls*Every time they have caved it has had massive repercussions in the vaping industry. Its where the majority of the bad press comes from but outside of the positive aspects of vaping before juul there was no advertising. its not a product that needs it. By caving on these controversies it allowed the public to begin to dislike vaping in general and closer link it to smoking. Juul even has publicly supported the flavor ban. It could go much deeper but since I dont think there evil mu stash twirling villings doing this or... oh
:takes off hat:
believe its true but it is food for thought and worth researching. I do find it odd how they have acted and feel it is very counter productive. Some maybe all could be chalked up to incompotence or other factors but how many come together before ....:reaches for hat: wahahah NAH!!! LOL
Anyway I hoped my ramblings were entertaining for someone!!