what to hope for? siren vs nautilus

[iamreallynotarobot]

hi everyone.
many apologies if this should be a double posting. i just signed up here & think i may have posted the below in the wrong place before, so here goes again:

i am quite new to the whole rta build your own coil & wick it properly world, so i realize there is plenty of room for error. but i have a general question i hope someone may be able to answer.
this past year i have been quite happily vaping on a nautilus 2. i am looking for mtl only, as close a proximation to cigarettes as possible, and have been almost exclusively using the black note liquids, which are pricy but without real competition in terms of flavor imo (from what i have tried up to this point at least). so this was a setup i really liked, except for the fact that the bvc coils were only really useable for a couple of days (4 max), and this was both pricy and annoying. so i decided to try out building my own coils & invested in a siren v2 after some brief research. and now, in terms of taste, i am a bit underwhelmed. flavor seems good to ok for maybe the first 40 drags or so, but then quickly dissipates and becomes very muted. again, i realize that the correct building is a very important element of all this and i am probably not quite there yet. i have researched this of course and will continue to do so. right now i am using stainless steel wire & cotton bacon, have tried coils in the 0.8 - 1.4 range, both spaced & contact. while i would appreciate someones advice what kind of coil / wick combo seems to work the best for them in a siren, the question i am finally getting to is this:
provided i find the right build, can i expect to have as good a flavor experience in a siren 2 as i did in my nautilus? can this last longer than the 1st 40 pulls? or is taste the tradeoff for the saved costs & "fun" of creating your own coils?
thanks a lot in advance!

 

[djsvapour]

provided i find the right build, can i expect to have as good a flavor experience in a siren 2 as i did in my nautilus? can this last longer than the 1st 40 pulls? or is taste the trade off for the saved costs & "fun" of creating your own coils?
thanks a lot in advance!

There should be no taste trade-off. Actually, the opposite ought to be true.
It's an essay I haven't time for, but might have a try later today.
Hang in there, help is on it's way. I dialed the right numbers for you.

 

[Budgie]

Welcome to ECF, I have the Siren2, and love it, my coil is 0.25 ohm and I vape at 20W, and having no problem with the taste at all. The coil is made of 9 turns of single round wire, and wicked with Cotton Bacon (fairly tightly packed). IMO the Siren2 beats the Nautilas2 hands down. Good luck with your coil building, it will be worth it.

 

[stols001]

I also have multiple Siren V2's and it's one of my favorite rebuildables. I run most of mine at around 1.0 ohms and 10--12 watts. The airflow is quite adjustable and for whatever reason I prefer running mine way open, although you can certainly close down the airflow quite a bit I if you want. I have one currently I am running with a 0.3 coil at about 25 watts, so it's certainly pretty versatile in terms of build draw wattage and etc.

You will need to play around with it some, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with using the coil that comes with it which is a 1.0 kanthal contact coil, but it's a good way to see what the manufacturers think may work (or heck, alternately they had a lot of these coils laying around so they threw them in there, who knows.)

As far as flavor, the Siren V2 beats my N2 hands down. I do have other tanks including some that take the N2 coil where I think the flavor quality is different, but certainly GREAT, and those would include my kabukis, my Joytech CLR tanks, and my Innoken Zeniths, all great flavor tanks that deliver a great deal using drop in coils. With that said, the quality of the vape is somehow DIFFERENT in a way that is hard to put my finger on, and it can be really super satisfying. So you may or may not continue to enjoy your drop in tanks, but I am fairly certain that once you have things up and running, you will enjoy rebuildables too.. I am a huge fan of the Siren V2 although not everyone is, but I most certainly am.

Good luck,

Anna

 

[iamreallynotarobot]

thanks for your replies guys, i was hoping the error lies with me, not the tank, so i will continue trying. maybe i will build a lower ohm coil next, i was just used to the 1.6 ohm of the nautilus & thought i should aim for that.
part of the problem is that there are so many variables: material, diameter, resistance, position, etc.
also, very much looking forward to your essay dj!
& anna. as i said at the beginning, my first post on this site was unfortunately a double posting, so in the other thread someone replied that while the siren could have great flavor, it only really works well with the airflow way open, otherwise the juice boils instead of evaporates? so.. is this why you prefer an open airflow too? i never opened more than 2 holes on the nautilus, and my understanding has always been that tighter airdraw benefits flavor..(also i like it)

 

[stols001]

I just get better flavor that way. IDK if it's due to the juice overheating, but I've run it closed off in TC mode so I pretty much was sure that they juice wasn't overheating even with less airflow. IDK I just think the Siren 2 vapes best wide open and I know I'm not the only person who thinks that.

But, the ways of the vape are mysterious, indeed. I have no idea why that is, but it just is, I just think the Siren's at its best when it is giving you a big old lungful of vape. etc.

Anna

 

[Janusz]

so in the other thread someone replied that while the siren could have great flavor, it only really works well with the airflow way open, otherwise the juice boils instead of evaporates? so.. is this why you prefer an open airflow too? i never opened more than 2 holes on the nautilus, and my understanding has always been that tighter airdraw benefits flavor..(also i like it)

I am neither expert or vaping scientist... but...

Nautilus 2 use vertical coil so amount of air inside coil is much smaller than on relatively large siren deck...when you start drawing on N2 vapor very fast replace that tiny amount of air inside coil... to get the same on siren you have to have more vaporised air to replace existing chimney air... very tight draw do not do that fast... so vapor is mixed with existing air making draw less flavorful... and some juice is cooked instead vaporized... amount of existing (not vaporized) air around coil affect flavor unless it is fast replaced by dense vapor...that is why small chimneys (found in kayfun, doggystyle, dvarw) can provide great flavor at very tight draw and bigger chimney atties need more air and wattage to achieve the same...

I love my 2 sirens but I prefer loose MTL or sometimes even restricted DTL... if you preffer very tight draw I think you will get great flavor more easily by using SXK Doggystyle or Dvarv

 

[iamreallynotarobot]

I am neither expert or vaping scientist... but...

thank you janusz, that is very informative. i have never given chimney size any thought, and my understanding of what is actually happening inside the tanks is quite fuzzy. i now know i have more time to sink into research of other tanks i suppose . b/c yes, i do think i will want to stick with a tight draw in the long run. does a smaller chimney equate a smaller & more fiddly building deck?
of the alternative tanks you mention, the kayfun seems considerably more expensive - though i might be seeing clone prices for the others.. any particular endorsement for one or the other?
thanks again.

 

[Janusz]

of the alternative tanks you mention, the kayfun seems considerably more expensive - though i might be seeing clone prices for the others.. any particular endorsement for one or the other?

Do not have kayfun and do not plan on buying it (too many parts and "O" rings).

I plan to buy more Doggies... not SXK but SYJM... for you I would endorse SXK Doggystyle... doggies are easy to wick... provide great flavor and never leak... securing coil on deck is not as easy as on siren and filling them is also not as convenient (no top filling) but for the price of one original Kayfun you can buy 10 doggies...

 

[Hawise]

flavor seems good to ok for maybe the first 40 drags or so, but then quickly dissipates and becomes very muted. again, i realize that the correct building is a very important element of all this and i am probably not quite there yet. i have researched this of course and will continue to do so. right now i am using stainless steel wire & cotton bacon, have tried coils in the 0.8 - 1.4 range, both spaced & contact. while i would appreciate someones advice what kind of coil / wick combo seems to work the best for them in a siren, the question i am finally getting to is this:
provided i find the right build, can i expect to have as good a flavor experience in a siren 2 as i did in my nautilus? can this last longer than the 1st 40 pulls? or is taste the tradeoff for the saved costs & "fun" of creating your own coils?
thanks a lot in advance!

To improve the flavour, playing around with different coils, wicking and air flow is the right approach, so you're off to a good start there.

What gauge wire(s) and what inside diameters (ID) have you been working with?

Stainless steel has lower resistance than kanthal, which is what the Nautilus coils are made of, so you'll probably want to drop your target resistance to 1 ohm or lower, depending on your gauge. On the Siren 2, I usually use a spaced ~1 ohm, 2.5 mm ID coil made of 30 ga SS316L (feel free to ask about any part of that if you didn't understand it). For the Siren, you'll probably get best results with a 2 - 3 mm inside diameter (ID).

You say it works well for a while and then deteriorates. That sounds like it could be a wicking issue. If you let the tank sit and then come back to it an hour or two later, is it any better? General advice for wicking is to watch a few videos. You'll notice the advice in the videos isn't always the same, so try different things to see if you can work out what works for you and your coil.

If you've got a coil that worked well for a while and then played out, feel free to post a photo of it. That can help us make our advice more useful.

Good luck!

 

[iamreallynotarobot]

What gauge wire(s) and what inside diameters (ID) have you been working with?

i am using ss316l as well, though 28 awg (i assume that is the gauge), and have tried diameters from 2.5-3.5. i do have some 30 awg kanthal here too i have not yet touched. i suppose 30 awg would have a bigger surface area (i think?), so maybe i will try that, just to check. i guess for now i can exclude the kind of cotton (bacon in my case), and the wire material as big variables in taste sensation? it sounds like finetuning for later, but correct me if i am wrong.
i too feel the wicking is likely a big part of the problem. i need a break from watching wicking videos though . how soon would you generally be able to tell if there is a noticeable degradation in taste / how often do people change their cotton? i guess that greatly varies. but i was initially hoping to get a similar mileage to my nautilus coils, which i changed after 3-4 days.
i really appreciate everyones swift assistance here in any case, thats very nice. i feel i have started obsessing over this the last couple days, and should probably allow my taste buds to recover a little. once they have, and if there is no improvement, i will upload a photo. goodnight everyone.

 

[BrotherBob]

invested in a siren v2 after some brief research. and now, in terms of taste, i am a bit underwhelmed. flavor seems good to ok for maybe the first 40 drags or so, but then quickly dissipates and becomes very muted.

Welcome and glad you joined.
Tanks have their place but you may benefit in using the ultimate vape equipment to establish a base line. I suggest obtaining an RDA to experiment with, then go to a tank if you must.
Might like to read:
Drip Vaping: Your Guide to Dripping e-Juice | Vape-Resource.com
http://spinfuel.com/art-drip-guide-vaping/
(7) Information Resources for Your First RBA | E-Cigarette Forum
Atomizer vs. Cartomizer vs. Clearomizer. The Ultimate Guide

 

[iamreallynotarobot]

yes from all i hear dripping is supposedly great for flavor. but for the time being rta is challenging enough for me to get right, also i do think i will want the convenience of a tank.
& my last coil actually turned out a lot better. i went down to 0.9 ohm again, 2.5 diameter. 500+ drags in, and flavor is still much better than before, the coil however seems very gunked up. i am attaching pictures of this, because regarding the wicking i am still not sure if this quite right, so let me know if you have suggestions for improvements, thx.

 

[Janusz]

Fluff & Thin

Do not compress and make ends hanging not resting on deck...that below is tiny bit too long...

I use Rayon... it is more forgiving and wicks very good...

 

[iamreallynotarobot]

thanks, i will shorten my cotton next time. would also like to look into rayon, though i am in germany and a bit confused what to look for..

 

[Janusz]

thanks, i will shorten my cotton next time. would also like to look into rayon, though i am in germany and a bit confused what to look for..

You can buy it on German Amazon... unfortunately you wiil pay for 40 feet (10metres) as much as I paid locally for 500 feet... but good thing is that 40 feet of this wicking material will easily allow you to make 500 or more wicks... so 15 Euro with free shipping is not terribly bad

https://www.amazon.de/Graham-Cellucotton-Beauty-Fibers-cellucotton/dp/B00PBGJT5A

 

[iamreallynotarobot]

You can buy it on German Amazon... unfortunately you wiil pay for 40 feet (10metres) as much as I paid locally for 500 feet... but good thing is that 40 feet of this wicking material will easily allow you to make 500 or more wicks... so 15 Euro with free shipping is not terribly bad

https://www.amazon.de/Graham-Cellucotton-Beauty-Fibers-cellucotton/dp/B00PBGJT5A

you may be seeing free shipping because you are located in the us? because for me it is 18 euros on top of the 15
same on ebay etc. as far as i can see, though i am sure a similar product would exist here under a different name.. thanks for checking though.

 

[Janusz]

you may be seeing free shipping because you are located in the us? because for me it is 18 euros on top of the 15
same on ebay etc. as far as i can see, though i am sure a similar product would exist here under a different name.. thanks for checking though.

No. You just have to hurry up....

Bezahlen Sie keine Versandkosten für Lieferungen nach Deutschland und Österreich bis einschließlich 4. September 2018.

Gratis Versand
Ohne Mindestbestellwert, so oft Sie möchten.

Aktionscode: VERSAND
Gültig für alle Sendungen von Produkten mit "Verkauf durch Amazon" an Versandadressen in Österreich und Deutschland und für so viele Bestellungen, wie Sie möchten

Do not pay shipping costs for deliveries to Germany and Austria up to and including September 4, 2018.

Free shipping
Without minimum order, as often as you like.

Action code: SHIPPING
Valid for all shipments of "sell through Amazon" products to shipping addresses in Austria and Germany and for as many orders as you like

 

[iamreallynotarobot]

Action code: SHIPPING
Valid for all shipments of "sell through Amazon" products to shipping addresses in Austria and Germany and for as many orders as you like

huh. that would be nice. only, i am not seeing this as "sold through amazon" but through bek trading ltd. it is an interesting promotion. maybe i am just too tired now, will have a look again tomorrow, still many hours left in the 4th

 

[Hawise]

yes from all i hear dripping is supposedly great for flavor. but for the time being rta is challenging enough for me to get right, also i do think i will want the convenience of a tank.
& my last coil actually turned out a lot better. i went down to 0.9 ohm again, 2.5 diameter. 500+ drags in, and flavor is still much better than before, the coil however seems very gunked up. i am attaching pictures of this, because regarding the wicking i am still not sure if this quite right, so let me know if you have suggestions for improvements, thx.

I'm glad to hear it's working better for you. Your coil looks great, especially for someone who's new to this. Like @Janusz, I'd recommend thinning the tails a tad. You might want to shape the wick so it sticks out a little before going down. It should be just past the deck because if it touches the deck it can leak out the air holes. Then again, if you're not having trouble with leaking you don't need to worry about it.

The 30 gauge wire I use is unusually thin, so your 28 gauge sounds fine. 26 gauge is common too. Note that wire actually gets thinner as the gauge goes up, so you're using a thicker wire than I am.

In my experience, most people have to rewick more often than they replaced drop-in coils, so you probably won't get four days out of a wick. The good news is that cleaning a coil and rewicking is easier than rebuilding a whole coil, so you won't have to repeat the whole process. The coil itself can last much longer. I usually damage mine within a few weeks, but I've heard of people using coils that are months or even years old.