What wattage for 1.0 ohm Dual Coil (twisted core/clapton build) RTA?

[PSiKoTiC]

Ok .. I know this post may sound redundant.. but perhaps I'm missing something.. read up .. ohms law etc. I've been vaping on prebuilt coils for quite some time.. started small.. currently running a Herakles tank, using Triton 0.5 ohm claptons for my atomizer. I'm using a segelei 150w box.

I ask this because I really enjoy this vape at 40w (the coil packaging rates the coil for 40-45w)
Nice cool vape, with 'enough' vape production quite satisfying.

I've reciently got an intrest in using RTA's (no RBA's I really don't like the whole dripping ritual etc) I just want to pick it up and vape.. fill a tank.. change the coils out etc.

I ended up making a build using a twisted Kanthal core using 2 strips of 31ga Kanthal.
After twisting those, I wrapped the twisted pair in 36ga kanthal (hence clapton) from my understanding it's more like a twisted fused clapton build? I could be wrong. Anyhow. I duplicated the process and made 2; 8 wrap coils. Ending result of my dual coil build (new rta tank 'the griffin' btw) comes to 1.0 ohm almost exactly. (0.01-0.02 ohm +/- depending on mood of the resistance measurement/temp of coils)

My question is, 40 watts (which I was previously running at) should be 40 watts (same heat?) if it's a 0.2ohm or 20ohm build. Provided your batteries can take the amperage drain etc. correct?

Well at 40 watts on my 1.0 ohm dual coil build (6.3v) vs my 0.5 ohm (4.6v) the vape is ridiculously different. Although I can build the coils, the 'average' wattage to vape it at I'm uncertain of.

I've been noticing the trend where higher wattages tend to be used with sub ohm coils, where as lower wattages on high ohm/resistance coils. Is this just human trends? or is there actually something to it?

Trying to google warrior it I come up with charts like this:

Claiming 1 ohm resistance should be 'ran' at the high end of 3 volts.. or.. 9 watts? Maybe I'm reading this incorrectly or this is a horrible joke, perhaps misunderstanding something. But with my dual coil clapton build at 9 watts. (10 watts actually. The box mod won't drop below 10watts) I have vapor starting to come off it (very little) in about 10-15 seconds of pressing the fire button down.

Now my understanding was that 1 ohm is 1 ohm.. single coil, or 20 coils. 1 ohm is 1 ohm, just like 40 watts should be 40 watts. What am I missing here, perhaps someone more experienced can explain this because I'm at a loss at the moment, building coils (specifically duals) to hit a pre set ohm took me awhile, now I can't figure out if I'm way under powering these coils, or I'm way over.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
PS. Sorry for wall o text

 

[PSiKoTiC]

Figured I'd post a pic of the build I'm trying to vape on (twisted core clapton dual build on the sigelei 150w, velocity style deck for a Griffin RTA)

 

[suprtrkr]

It's not about total watts, it's about watts radiated per square area of coil surface. Fancy--read massive-- coild builds have a lot of surface area, and need more watts to attain the same mW/mm^2. As always, the rule is, start low and work up.

 

[Bunnykiller]

keeping the watts the same on a regulated mod and changing the ohms is equal to keeping the speed of the car the same but changing gears...

 

[daviedog]

You have the gear, acceories, interest.
Now go to steam engine..

 

[nyiddle]

Yeah, no.

40W on a 1 ohm coil and 40W on a .5 ohm coil is going to be vastly different.

You even stated it yourself, the difference in voltage is pretty massive. You know that 6V is 2V higher than 4V. Try toning it down to the equivalent wattage of 4V and see how you like it.

Also that chart is super duper outdated these days. It was made back in the carto days when 1 ohm was a "low resistance" warning on a lot of devices.

 

[PSiKoTiC]

Yeah, no.

40W on a 1 ohm coil and 40W on a .5 ohm coil is going to be vastly different.

You even stated it yourself, the difference in voltage is pretty massive. You know that 6V is 2V higher than 4V. Try toning it down to the equivalent wattage of 4V and see how you like it.

Also that chart is super duper outdated these days. It was made back in the carto days when 1 ohm was a "low resistance" warning on a lot of devices.

Thank you because I figured my eyes were botched or something

 

[PSiKoTiC]

I've been trying to use the RTA in hope for a similar (hopefully better) vaping experience. However any of my RTA builds so far have been less tasty, the volume of vape is similar, but I've never had an issue with the 150w box and a low resistance coil blowing massive clouds, which I'm not super into. The flavor seems to go with the clouds in my experiences so far I figured a dual clapton build would give me more surface area and a lower over all temp of the vapor would be possible, with hopefully more taste, more air flow etc (as twice the vapor would be; in theory being produced). All my flavors on my RTA builds seem muted vs the triton clapton 0.5 ohm coil I'm using, is there some trick I'm missing or something? From everything I've ever heard (specifically with RDA/drippers) you will get the most flavor off of those vs any premade tank/coil setup. I figured an RTA would atleast be meeting in the mid ground. I'm struggling to vape on my RTA atm as the flavor semi sucks, cranking up the wattage slowly the flavor never seems to come out as well as the single coil clapton triton pre-build coil. to the point of where my wicking can't keep up with wattage and I end up getting half dry hits (you know that tinge of 'this sucks' in your vape. but not a full on dry hit)

 

[edyle]

40 watts is 40 watts

but 40 watts on a small coil will be hotter than 40 watts on a big fat monster coil.

 

[edyle]

I've been trying to use the RTA in hope for a similar (hopefully better) vaping experience. However any of my RTA builds so far have been less tasty, the volume of vape is similar, but I've never had an issue with the 150w box and a low resistance coil blowing massive clouds, which I'm not super into. The flavor seems to go with the clouds in my experiences so far I figured a dual clapton build would give me more surface area and a lower over all temp of the vapor would be possible, with hopefully more taste, more air flow etc (as twice the vapor would be; in theory being produced). All my flavors on my RTA builds seem muted vs the triton clapton 0.5 ohm coil I'm using, is there some trick I'm missing or something? From everything I've ever heard (specifically with RDA/drippers) you will get the most flavor off of those vs any premade tank/coil setup. I figured an RTA would atleast be meeting in the mid ground. I'm struggling to vape on my RTA atm as the flavor semi sucks, cranking up the wattage slowly the flavor never seems to come out as well as the single coil clapton triton pre-build coil. to the point of where my wicking can't keep up with wattage and I end up getting half dry hits (you know that tinge of 'this sucks' in your vape. but not a full on dry hit)

that's one reason to spend 5 or 10 bucks on a simple rda; do your practice on the rda; once you find you are happy with a particular build, do that build on the rta.

 

[PSiKoTiC]

Been looking around .. perhaps i'm just not adept at wicking the coils properly.. aside from my builds not always being picture perfect.. anyone have any good tips or guides to wicking? most vids I've seen are like... use about 'this much' and shows a picture of a piece of cotton for a specific coil etc

 

[battouter]

very informative thread. i would just like to ask one more thing. given everything else is the same, resistance and wattage, do dual coils drain battery and juice quicker than a single coil build?

EDIT:
this is still quite confusing. From what I have been told a 1 ohm single coil build will run at a lower wattage from a 1 ohm dual coil build?

 

[K_Tech]

very informative thread. i would just like to ask one more thing. given everything else is the same, resistance and wattage, do dual coils drain battery and juice quicker than a single coil build?

EDIT:
this is still quite confusing. From what I have been told a 1 ohm single coil build will run at a lower wattage from a 1 ohm dual coil build?

Think of it as a gas burner on the stove, trying to boil water. You first put on a 2-quart saucepan filled with water and set it to boil. Next, you put on a 4-quart saucepan on the same burner at the same setting and set it to boil.
At the same setting, it's going to take longer to boil. In order to make the second (larger) pot of water boil in the same amount of time, you're going to have to increase the heat (wattage) to the second pot, and, hand-in-hand with that, the first (smaller) pot is going to require less heat (wattage) to boil in the same amount of time.

As to battery drainage, on a regulated mod, wattage is wattage. The resistance, while important to the vaping side of the equation, is irrelevant to the battery, because at any given charge state, it's going to pull X amount of amps out of the battery.

Let's say the battery is sitting at 4 volts and you want to provide 20 watts to the coil. Whether it's a 1 ohm coil or a 1.5 ohm coil, the regulation circuit is still going to pull 5 amps out of the battery, because all the battery "sees" is the circuit sitting between it and the coil. The regulation circuit takes that current and does its electrical magic to produce the voltage required to make the 20 watts happen at the coil itself.

On the e-liquid side of things, you may actually be using the same (or less) because keeping the wattage the same and doubling the amount of metal in the coil, you're likely to get a weaker overall vape.

 

[battouter]

Think of it as a gas burner on the stove, trying to boil water. You first put on a 2-quart saucepan filled with water and set it to boil. Next, you put on a 4-quart saucepan on the same burner at the same setting and set it to boil.
At the same setting, it's going to take longer to boil. In order to make the second (larger) pot of water boil in the same amount of time, you're going to have to increase the heat (wattage) to the second pot, and, hand-in-hand with that, the first (smaller) pot is going to require less heat (wattage) to boil in the same amount of time.

As to battery drainage, on a regulated mod, wattage is wattage. The resistance, while important to the vaping side of the equation, is irrelevant to the battery, because at any given charge state, it's going to pull X amount of amps out of the battery.

Let's say the battery is sitting at 4 volts and you want to provide 20 watts to the coil. Whether it's a 1 ohm coil or a 1.5 ohm coil, the regulation circuit is still going to pull 5 amps out of the battery, because all the battery "sees" is the circuit sitting between it and the coil. The regulation circuit takes that current and does its electrical magic to produce the voltage required to make the 20 watts happen at the coil itself.

On the e-liquid side of things, you may actually be using the same (or less) because keeping the wattage the same and doubling the amount of metal in the coil, you're likely to get a weaker overall vape.

if that is the case from what i understand, how much is the increase in wattage do you have to adjust to compensate for a dual coil build? this is just an example, if you vape a 1 ohm single coil at 10w do you double it to 20w compensate for the dual coil?

 

[K_Tech]

if that is the case from what i understand, how much is the increase in wattage do you have to adjust to compensate for a dual coil build? this is just an example, if you vape a 1 ohm single coil at 10w do you double it to 20w compensate for the dual coil?

AFAIK, there's no hard and fast rule. I think the best thing to do is start low and bump the power up incrementally until you find your sweet spot.

 

[battouter]

AFAIK, there's no hard and fast rule. I think the best thing to do is start low and bump the power up incrementally until you find your sweet spot.

that doesn't really answer the question.

if i vape 0.8 single coil at 40 watts, how does this affect a 0.8 dual coil setup? can i run it still at 40 watts and get the same results as the single at 40w?

let me simplify dual coils drain battery faster because you need to up your wattage to heat more area? yes?

if so, how much on average does it cut your battery time? in half?

 

[f1vefour]

that doesn't really answer the question.

if i vape 0.8 single coil at 40 watts, how does this affect a 0.8 dual coil setup? can i run it still at 40 watts and get the same results as the single at 40w?

let me simplify dual coils drain battery faster because you need to up your wattage to heat more area? yes?

if so, how much on average does it cut your battery time? in half?

To have a 0.8 ohm dual setup the coils will need to be about 1.6 ohm a piece, therefore changing the power equation since your using 4x the amount of wire. More wire = more mass, needs more power.

It lessens battery life, can't say how much.

 

[battouter]

it looks like dual coils aren't worth it though. friends keep trying to convince me to go dual.

what does duals really accomplish? more clouds? that's it?

 

[K_Tech]

that doesn't really answer the question.

if i vape 0.8 single coil at 40 watts, how does this affect a 0.8 dual coil setup? can i run it still at 40 watts and get the same results as the single at 40w?

let me simplify dual coils drain battery faster because you need to up your wattage to heat more area? yes?

if so, how much on average does it cut your battery time? in half?

True, but unfortunately, there's really no formula to tell you where to run your power for a "good" vape, hence the "start low and go up".

Going simply by math, if you're running 20 watts on a 1 ohm, 26 gauge, 3mm coil, your heat flux is 177 miliwatts per square mm.

On a dual coil at 1 ohm, same wire and diameter, you'd need 80 watts to get the same value of heat flux.

So, in theory, with the same vaping technique, you'd drain the battery four times faster. But it's not that simple, you may find that you prefer 50 watts - or 100 watts.

it looks like dual coils aren't worth it though. friends keep trying to convince me to go dual.

what does duals really accomplish? more clouds? that's it?

Whether it's worth it is subjective, it really all depends on your preference. Yes, dual coils can produce thicker clouds and more flavor at the cost of increased e-liquid consumption. I switch from single to dual coils all the time depending on my mood.
Vaping, for me, is definitely a hobby. I like building and experimenting. I try different wicking materials, different coil configurations, different power levels, etc.. But I'd say 70% of the time (these days, at least) I'm happy with a nice single coil setup in a good tank. The rest is just me seeing what I can accomplish.

 

[battouter]

that's what i thought. my real concern was the quality of the vape and vape time on my daily single 18650 mod if i go dual coils. i don't like bringing along extra batteries.

maybe a dual 18650 mod would help with the vape time if i go dual coil.