what's a good NON mouth-to-lung setup?
- Thread starter Jae Lee
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I'm not sure I understand what you are saying here. MTL is drawing smoke/vapor into your mouth (the back of the tongue blocks your airway and you are drawing via suction), then the smoke/vapor trapped in the mouth is inhaled to the lungs. At least that's how I do it and I thought all cigarette smokers inhaled this way. Direct to Lung bypasses the blocked airway suction part of the process and is just a straight inhale to the lungs, like someone who smoked "something else" would do.But seriously, I think it's a rather silly thing... the "difference" between them.
MTL is: take a breath but PAUSE within a second, then finish taking a small quick breath (some do it like they have the hiccups for some reason, like something is about to bite their tongue or something)
Direct lung is: take a breath, inhale the darn smoke/vape in a smooth linear fashion
I never understood the MTL thing to be honest and I've smoked cigars, unfiltered cigarettes, etc.
Edit: trying to remember and think about it, I think I remember and know what it is.. it's that whole sucking on cherry milkshake with a straw that's clogged with a chuck of cherry, and you have to pull hard to get some milkshake to go up the straw... then the swallow. ok, I remember what the MTL is, didn't do it much though, those milkshakes were too hard to stay lit..
As a vaper, I still MTL and I love the "French inhale" flourish. I don't see the appeal of DTL at all, but it seems to be all the rage, lol.
My point or joke is even if you do not "hold" the vapor in your mouth it still goes through the mouth into the lungs. There is no path directly to the lungs.
It's not about "how much" air is coming through, but about where the choke-point (smallest cross-sectional area) is in the airflow path.
MTL tanks like the Kayfun family have the choke-point of the airflow right underneath the coil, so that air is being "forced" through the small area and expanding on the other side at the moment it hits the coil. This fast-moving, expanding air helps keep the coil cool without requiring a large volume of air. There doesn't have to be a lot of it, it just needs to be moving fast.
DL tanks on the other hand, yes they usually have airflow adjustment and you can "close down" the airflow somewhat, but the problem is that the choke point is nowhere near the coil, it's on the airflow control ring on the outside of the tank. By the time the air actually reaches the coil, it is not being forced through a small opening or in the process of expanding, it's just sort of casually strolling through a wide open hallway. In order to get this air moving fast enough to get any useful cooling done, you need a lot of it. Closing down the airflow on a tank like this doesn't make the air move any faster as it goes over the coil, it just means there's less of it, which doesn't lend itself very well to the MTL style of vaping.
I'd love to see a diagram or cross-section of what you're describing as I didn't know metal could expand and retract in a sudden fashion under this vacuum formed as what you're describing.
It would be a great technology advancement if this could be applied to other devices and such, I could even see a way to create a perpetual motion machine to create infinite energy with this.
Glad you replied, and hopefully it'll put to bed the silly argument over why MTL design works the way it does.
Now... tell us what you've used and any particular likes and dislikes.
To give directions, we need to figure out where you want to go.
I'll probably just watch... my "MTL" got broke when I went to sub-ohming and lung hits.
I do actually have an AIO, and use it... but I lung hit the little bugger.
I think we all know what we mean when we say Direct to Lung- the vapor simply doesn't take a rest stop in the mouth. So, I am interested in what suggestions will be forthcoming since I am still shopping for MTL gear.
What in the...did you even read what I posted? Who said anything about metal expanding or [con]tracting? I'm talking about the air expanding, and where in the airflow path that expansion occurs. As you can see in the diagram below (copyright 2016 bwh79, may not be used without permission), it doesn't matter how tightly you close down the airflow, if this doesn't happen in close proximity to the coil then it doesn't do any good.
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Got Kayfuns? Can't go wrong with Kayfuns for MTL vaping, IMO, and you can get decent clones for a reasonable price. I like my Lite+ version 2 clones by EHPro, but recently there are also clones by Tobeco of the v4 and the Mini v3 that get really nice reviews as well (the v4 and Mini v3 both have glass tanks and top-fill capability -- the Lite+v2 is bottom-fill only, and only has the plastic and metal tank sections.) Avoid the v5 -- that's a Kayfun that's trying to be something it's not (a lung-hitter) and it doesn't really make the grade on either side of the fence.
If you're not into rebuilding...get one anyway, you'll be happy to have it later on when replacement coils for your preferred tank become hard to come by. But until then, you might like a Nautilus (regular or mini) by Aspire.
So we have air pressure going in, and this is created by sucking air on top, then the air decompresses, that is very interesting physics... Maybe if you have something applying pressure going in, but with a suction, the air is going to only go as fast as the pressure created by the vacuum caused by the suction, which would result in an equilibrium in air pressure. You're trying to use a mimic of airplane wings dynamics of high and low pressure here, which simply does not happen as you appear to believe here. What you've describe happens (more or less) in every tank and nothing that's limited to a fictional MTL only tank.
This makes no difference in terms of an atomizer being able to be a DL, used as MTL, and a crapping airflow tank that you simply inhale DL but slower, balancing the wattage to increase the heat to get more vaping, but cooled off by the suction pressure. It's all about how you do the pull, a bad airflow, means you suck harder and longer to get the same amount of vape compared to something with more airflow. In the end, it just means that one can do MTL and DL with just about any tank, just some sucks more than others to do it.
So maybe I should draw some unicorns and pass it off as proof they exist? How about something real instead
Anyways... I'm done.
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I actually did buy some Kayfun Lite Plus V2s, the EHPro versions. I also have a couple on their way from Focalecig that include the nano kits. I am, or have been, a dripper- 510 atty style. So I've been scouring for info on MTL RDAs. I bought a few Origen V2s. Thinking about Marquis as well, and I located some unknown brand Stumpy clones- only found one place at all that carried a Stumpy clone. These are RDAs I understand to be MTL-friendly.
Hell is the place that hath no reason. Sigh..What in the...did you even read what I posted? Who said anything about metal expanding or [con]tracting? I'm talking about the air expanding, and where in the airflow path that expansion occurs. As you can see in the diagram below (copyright 2016 bwh79, may not be used without permission), it doesn't matter how tightly you close down the airflow, if this doesn't happen in close proximity to the coil then it doesn't do any good.
Did you really think you can convince him !? He clearly looks down on mtl vaping and mtl vapers and thinks that there are two ways to do things ; his way and the wrong way. These three sentences from his posts earlier in the thread should make that obvious :What in the...did you even read what I posted? Who said anything about metal expanding or [con]tracting? I'm talking about the air expanding, and where in the airflow path that expansion occurs. As you can see in the diagram below (copyright 2016 bwh79, may not be used without permission), it doesn't matter how tightly you close down the airflow, if this doesn't happen in close proximity to the coil then it doesn't do any good.
Some tanks simply have bad airflow and limited coils, and those are usually considered mtl due to this.
I never understood the MTL thing to be honest and I've smoked cigars, unfiltered cigarettes, etc.
it's that whole sucking on cherry milkshake with a straw that's clogged with a chuck of cherry, and you have to pull hard to get some milkshake to go up the straw.
Anyhow, nice diagram and explanation. Very useful to those who are sincerely trying to understand the difference between a tank designed for mtl and one designed to dl.
I MTL vape My favorite tanks for MTL are Kanger Sub tank mini and my Smoktech FBC tank. 
I have found small bore drip tips help getting a good mtl hit too. There are a few drip tips with screens added that help catch any spit back.
Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk
Sent from my LGLS992 using Tapatalk
What in the...did you even read what I posted? Who said anything about metal expanding or [con]tracting? I'm talking about the air expanding, and where in the airflow path that expansion occurs. As you can see in the diagram below (copyright 2016 bwh79, may not be used without permission), it doesn't matter how tightly you close down the airflow, if this doesn't happen in close proximity to the coil then it doesn't do any good.
lolz, love the diagram but you should of realized when he thought after "8 years of vaping" that airflow has something to do with wattage, something is seriously wrong and cut your losses.
"never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience" - mark twain
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