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Where Do You Buy Flavorings that List All of the Ingredients

Discussion in 'DIY E-Liquid' started by Mohamed, Oct 10, 2013.

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  1. Mohamed

    Mohamed Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 15, 2013
    USA
    I'm really new to DIY...probably less than a noob on a scale of noob to expert. My main experiences are mixing ejuice pre-made...for instance I bought toasted tobacco, vanilla, caramel, cappuccino, etc. Since I like all 4 of those flavor's I've mixed different combinations...so not a true DIY in my opinion but a stepping stone.

    My next step was to try add some root beer flavoring to unflavored pre-made ejuice. Someone on the forums told me to get Watkins but I couldn't find that so I assumed the Tone's version was good enough. Well apparently your not supposed to use flavorings with sugar, fructose, corn syrup, sulfates etc...all of which was listed on that bottle. Didn't know that before hand; I just assumed ok no Root Beer Watkins flavor; ahh this root boor flavoring is good enough.

    Q1 So what websites do you guys use that actually list the ingredients for you? Or do you just assume that if you are on vaping site that they are using stuff that doesn't have anything you shouldn't use? Been to a couple of sites and some don't even list if it's PG or VG based let alone the ingredients.

    Q2 I haven't seen any sites that do this but can you specify if your flavor uses only PG or only VG or do you have to do a lot of shopping around if you want that?

    Q3 Can someone list the ingredients I'm supposed to avoid again?
     
  2. cookiebun

    cookiebun Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 6, 2011
    Central Ohio
  3. glasseye

    glasseye Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 15, 2012
    Myrtle Beach, SC
    The Perfumers Apprentice aka The Flavor Apprentice lists some ingredients,while their resellers may not. If you have questions about those flavorings other than answers you can get or find here, ask them.
    Perfumers Apprentice - Professional Flavors
    Some resellers plainly advertise they are TFA flavorings, some do not.
    Vaping Zone super concentrated flavorings I believe are alcohol based. Their Gourmet line is PG based.
    DIYFlavorShack has both PG and VG flavorings.
    And no, you shouldn't just assume that because you're on a vaping site that everything is OK to use. I've caught one flavoring that the manufacturer says should NOT be used for vaping for sale on a vaping/flavor site.

    There is a list floating around here from Levitas that has non-PG flavorings. It's a good one if you can find it.
     
  4. Mohamed

    Mohamed Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 15, 2013
    USA
    Yeah I haven't read much of the stickies...I'm not a true DIY'er yet as I'm just mixing premade ejuices and made one attempt to add flavor to a unflavored pre-bought ejuice. The post I made on root beer was in general discussion. The Watkins Root Beer was suggested as it is apparently OK with the ingredients. They didn't have that at the store I went to and only had Tone's and I figured that was good enough.

    I'm not saying all Watkin's flavors are ok for vaping I was just told that the Root Beer one was ok.
     
  5. Mohamed

    Mohamed Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 15, 2013
    USA
    I guess I'm not looking for all the ingredients. I understand their may be some proprietary mixes but what I would like to see is something along the lines of PG, TFA artifical flavors.

    I don't have the Tones bottle handle but it said something along the lines of PG, High Fructose Corn Syrup, Sugar, Artificial Flavorings, Sulfates.

    Something along those lines so that I know I'm not buying anything with sugar, corn syrup, High Fructose Corn Syrup, Sulfates, etc. The that way I can check to see if it has things I know shouldn't be vaped. I don't mind the "and Artificial Flavorings" as I assume those are FDA approved.
     
  6. we2rcool

    we2rcool Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 31, 2013
    Iowa, IA, USA
    To my knowledge, chemicals approved by the FDA are approved to be ingested orally, not inhaled. There's a huge difference (the reason that users of illegal drugs/powders smoke/inhale or inject them rather than eating them is because drugs/chemicals are neutralized somewhat by being ingested and going directly to the liver before going directly into the bloodstream - as chemicals do when they're vaped). The FDA does not do independent testing - the FDA reviews the tests provided by the manufacturer (or corporation) submitting the data. Over the decades, the FDA has missed/overlooked many volatile drugs & chemicals that are now know to be volatile poison. Vioxx comes to mind; a drug that killed over 50,000 people...with FDA approval.

    To my knowledge, there is not one flavor chemical that has been proven to be safe for inhalation (X amount of hours daily for months/years)

    Well, we know Vaping Zone's Gourmet line has many flavors that contain varying amount of diacetyl - and VZ doesn't disclose it. Since they don't disclose it in their Gourmet line, it's only logical to assume that it's possible that many flavors in their SC line also contain diacetyl (the Cream flavor certainly tastes like it might).

    'Any other known vendors selling/profiting from selling known harmful chemicals that don't bother to disclose the same?

    ***

    Yes, even the air we breath is toxin laden. Yes, we all know already (or should know already) that vaping chemicals (approved or not by various authorities) is risky. I don't plan on "posting warnings" all the time.

    Vape On, Wisely!
     
  7. Mohamed

    Mohamed Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 15, 2013
    USA
    I'm sorry if I'm not being clear; I understand that flavorings approved by the FDA for consumption have not been tested nor approved for vaping and that you are taking a risk vaping these flavors. That's not what I'm asking.

    Let me start over. I was originally interested in buying a root beer flavor pre-made ejuice and was asking for vendors on this thread http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/general-e-liquid-discussion/471830-root-beer.html . One of the posts was that you could easily make your own by adding Watkins' Root Beer flavoring. He stressed Watkins' in several posts as it had "proper" ingredients...although I may not have paid attention closely enough until after trying to DIY.

    I think it was after the fact but I couldn't find Watkins' Root Beer in the Wall-Mart I visited and I wrongly assumed that any Root Beer flavoring would do. I bought the Tone's brand as that was the only brand they had at the store I visited and thought one Root Beer flavor is equivalent to the next. I don't remember exact ratio but I took approx 85% unflavored 18mg/ml juice and 15% Tone's Root Beer flavoring and put it into a 10ml bottle.

    After letting it sit for a day or so I tried it. It tasted very good for first 10-20 puffs but quickly tasted of very bad burnt flavor and ruined two of my atties very quickly. I made a post asking why.

    The reason that was given was that sugar, corn syrup, fructose, high fructose corn syrup, sulfates caramelize under heat and will burn and ruin your atty. Therefore giving you a very a burnt taste very quickly and ruining your atty very quickly. He/She suggested to never use any flavorings that contain these ingredients for that reason...and was why he suggested the WATKINS' BRAND. As stated I overlooked that and thought any flavoring would do and apparently I was wrong.

    I understand that flavorings are not approved to be vaped and that you take your own risk when vaping them. I don't necessarily care to know the vendors/manufactures trade secrets but I do want to know if they contain Sugar, Corn Syrup, Fructose, High Corn Syrup Fructose, Sulfates, or anything else that I should not be using...especially those that will burn out my atty after 20 puffs.

    Again these were my main questions and I understand the risk of vaping flavors. Even vendor bought flavors are not FDA approved for vaping.

    Q1 So what websites do you guys use that actually list the ingredients for you? Or do you just assume that if you are on vaping site that they are using stuff that doesn't have anything you shouldn't use? Been to a couple of sites and some don't even list if it's PG or VG based let alone the ingredients.

    Q2 I haven't seen any sites that do this but can you specify if your flavor uses only PG or only VG or do you have to do a lot of shopping around if you want that?

    Q3 Can someone list the ingredients I'm supposed to avoid again?

    I guess if you can't answer those specifically; how do I know what to avoid?
     
  8. Jonathan Tittle

    Jonathan Tittle Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Sep 7, 2013
    Johnson City, TN, USA
    I remember that thread :).

    Most flavors are going to be PG based, but not many vendors are going to give you a 100% detailed listing of what's in the flavoring you buy. You're going to see most of the following:

    - Natural Flavoring (i.e. Nat. Flavoring)
    - Artificial Flavoring (i.e. Art. Flavoring)
    - PG and/or VG
    - ..... any other ingredients (citric acid, water, alcohol etc).


    Wizard Labs sources TFA (The Flavor Apprentice - Linked to RTSVapes selection of TFA) and LA (LorAnn), but there's also Flavor West, OneOnOne Flavors, FlavorArt and various others. All of them provide a basic listing of what's in there, short of anything that's going to tell you how they create the flavor itself.

    The Root Beer you were asking about is technically safe to vape (Watkins, not Tones) due to what's in it. That specific flavoring uses the same type of ingredients other flavor vendors use (as listed above).

    The flavor vendors listed above are considered safe to use and are some of the most widely used by DIY'ers and actual juice vendors who do pre-made.
     
  9. Mohamed

    Mohamed Super Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 15, 2013
    USA
    @Taactical Thanks. I was looking for list of vendors that I could I "trust" or "assume" that provide flavors for vaping and not necessarily for cooking/baking only.

    That answers Q1 pretty well. Q2 and Q3 are still up in the air although I missed diacetyl in my list for Q3. Anything else I was missing for Q3?
     
  10. Jonathan Tittle

    Jonathan Tittle Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Sep 7, 2013
    Johnson City, TN, USA
    For #2:

    Most all flavors are going to be PG based as PG is a solvent and is going to carry the flavor better. VG is known to mute the flavor, so more flavoring is needed to make up for it. Velvet Vapors sells PG-Free flavoring if you would prefer it over PG, though it seems more flavors are available with PG than without it.

    Velvet Vapors - Products - PG-FREE FLAVORS

    http://www.diyflavorshack.com/SearchResults.asp?Cat=72


    For #3:

    Diacetyl is a big one and probably the one you want to avoid the most. The vendors listed above are diacetyl-free. That said, stick with the basics. If it has PG, VG, Alcohol and or water as the primary ingredients, you should be good to go. Some have citric acid which adds to the tartness or sourness of a flavor, which is also okay, but you really want to stay away from sugar, syrup, corn syrup, high fructose corn syrup, phosphates and chemicals that really aren't meant for vaping.

    The vendors listed above and Velvet Vapor are companies that are recommended and they stick with the basics, so ordering from them will ease the need to look at what's in the flavors as those companies not only service DIY'ers, but companies as well.
     
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