Why are so many vapers against themselves?

[DC2]

Didn't this list show up on a post about a month, month and a half ago and wasn't there a response post showing this list was missing about an equal amount of Republicans, which had somehow (whoops!) been left off the original list? Anybody have the corrected list?

That is a list of the sponsors of the bill mentioned, and yes it is complete.

 

[wheezal]

You're wrong. There's always fat people. It's ok to hate them and be discriminatory against them.

same rule with Penguins, they're not animals, they're evil children in rubber suits. thats why it's ok to hit them.

 

[Fulgurant]

By the way, I just want to clarify one thing about my post...

We should be fighting for the same distinction between smoking and other tobacco products.
And we should also be fighting against the further spread of increasingly ridiculous smoking bans.

But this is a vaping forum, and so I didn't think of mentioning that in my previous post.
Besides, it's hard enough to get people to stand up for vaping.

Right, that's an important point because increasingly draconian smoking bans are becoming more and more commonplace -- outdoor bans and so forth. When we discuss this topic, I think a lot of us are talking past each other because we're used to a particular type of indoor smoking ban, and a number of people here don't think it's unreasonable to put the PV away in certain, if not most, buildings.

And that's fine, but if we allow vaping to be categorized in the public consciousness as akin to smoking, then we will face far more intrusive restrictions in the very near future. Or now, depending on where you live. We've already seen outrageous examples -- like the prohibition against vaping within 25 feet of a bus stop in Washington DC, or against vaping anywhere on a college campus, for instance. Or within 3 blocks of a hospital building. Or within your own car if you're on hospital grounds.

Honestly, restrictions like those would be unacceptable even if they only concerned cigarette smokers, but when the same establishment forces that insist you're a second-class citizen for smoking also go out of their way to oppose the most effective smoking replacements available -- to keep you paying regressive sin taxes or in pursuit of some misguided crusade against nicotine (which by itself is effectively harmless) -- then you know you've got trouble. We are, in a very real sense, fighting for people's lives here. Scoff if you like, but anyone who smoked for any considerable time before finding e-cigarettes knows it's true.

It should go without saying that private establishments (and even physically enclosed public establishments) have the right to prohibit vaping. It also goes without saying that individuals who pointedly flout such prohibitions should be more considerate. As I see it, those statements are self-evident, and therefore only of scant interest.

The real issue is that certain anti-vaping policies, public or private, current or future, bespeak an aggressive and malignant ignorance that must be opposed. That doesn't mean we should all march on the nearest health-food restaurant and conduct a cloud-blowing contest. That doesn't even mean that any particular policy maker doesn't have a right to enact ignorant policies on his own property. It just means that we should try our damnedest to educate the uninformed, and to fight the dishonest.

 

[CommaHolly]

Nothing, but it is a phrase that can be made to disallow anything. Disallow vaping now, because otherwise children will grow up in a world where being addicted to nicotine or worse yet, being addicted to vaping 0 mg nicotine will be seen as good and healthy. ANTZ has determined both are false propaganda peddled by addicts who need a fix. Ban vaping now everywhere, for the children. Won't anyone think of the children?

you're so right.

I mean, yesterday all I heard on the news was politicians screaming about lowering the national debt "for the children and our children's children",,,,,,,

yep,,,irritating phrase.

 

[CommaHolly]

And though many people bemoan how this country is apparently going to hell in a handbasket because "all our rights are being taken away" fail to notice how many more rights - and protections - we have now than in the past. The right to fair wages (or at least minimum wage), the right for blacks and women (gasp and gasp!) to vote (and sit in any place in a restaurant or bus), the right to fair trial, protections from discrimination in the work place, the right to a free education, protection from mistreatment, protection from rape and beatings and abuse, the right for women and children to NOT be considered the sole property of a husband, the rights of children to be protected from physical and sexual abuse, the right to walk the streets, use the library and enter a hospital no matter our color or nation of origin, the right to a thousand little protections we DO enjoy to day that we DID NOT necessarily enjoy in the "good old days" people seem to want to remember...because back then, well, people could smoke.

Come on...

AMEN.

Ten characters.

 

[SimianSteam]

Rub it in people's faces and they'll ban it. We've seen it over and over. It's the jerks that ostentatiously vape in crowded public areas just to get a reaction that are really responsible for these ridiculous bans. Do we really expect local governments to bend over backwards for the fraction of 1% that vapes at the cost of those that are upset by it?

Keep it on the DL and it'll stay legit. Blow big clouds in public and it'll get banned. Simple as that.

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

That is a list of the sponsors of the bill mentioned, and yes it is complete.

So this is the list for one bill, is what you're saying?

We should all change our political affiliation based on one bill regarding a choice we make *for ourselves* to do or not to do, completely ignoring other issues? (I know that's not what *you're* saying personally, DC. But it's the intimation.)

Yeah, erm, no. If that's how people vote - "I don't care about the actual life or death issues, I just wanna get my jones!" then by God it ISN'T any wonder the country is going to hell in a handbasket. Whew!

 

[CommaHolly]

So this is the list for one bill, is what you're saying?

We should all change our political affiliation based on one bill regarding a choice we make *for ourselves* to do or not to do, completely ignoring other issues? (I know that's not what *you're* saying personally, DC. But it's the intimation.)

Yeah, erm, no. If that's how people vote - "I don't care about the actual life or death issues, I just wanna get my jones!" then by God it ISN'T any wonder the country is going to hell in a handbasket. Whew!

I think,,,,,,,,,,,I mean I really think,,,,,,,,,,I have a girl crush on you

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

I think,,,,,,,,,,,I mean I really think,,,,,,,,,,I have a girl crush on you

(embarrassed) (whispering) I love you too...

Don't tell Racehorse.

 

[CommaHolly]

(embarrassed) (whispering) I love you too...

Don't tell Racehorse.

(whispering),,,,I love her too.

 

[Pinggolfer]

but is it REALLY your freedom to vape in someone's store or restaurant?????

now, if we're talking the sidewalk,,,,,,,,,yeah, you have a point.

Lots of shopping centers, movie theaters, and restaurants have moved their cigarette jumbo ashtrays away from their front doors. So we do we go there to vape? It's like saying we smoke but it only looks different. I have now vaped in Walmart and Target and you sure know how many video cameras they have looking at you, and so far no one has said anything to me. If they do I will stop.

 

[blondeambition3]

And though many people bemoan how this country is apparently going to hell in a handbasket because "all our rights are being taken away" fail to notice how many more rights - and protections - we have now than in the past. The right to fair wages (or at least minimum wage), the right for blacks and women (gasp and gasp!) to vote (and sit in any place in a restaurant or bus), the right to fair trial, protections from discrimination in the work place, the right to a free education, protection from mistreatment, protection from rape and beatings and abuse, the right for women and children to NOT be considered the sole property of a husband, the rights of children to be protected from physical and sexual abuse, the right to walk the streets, use the library and enter a hospital no matter our color or nation of origin, the right to a thousand little protections we DO enjoy to day that we DID NOT necessarily enjoy in the "good old days" people seem to want to remember...because back then, well, people could smoke.

Come on...

These shouldn't be considered 'rights'... these should be universal law, and I so agree with you across the board.

 

[Uma]

Doesn't anyone remember first switching over to vaping from instant gratificating smoking? Yeh, it was pleasant, & we didn't even jones all that much, as long as were able to vape as wanted/needed. Those who couldn't, still smoked and had a harder time switching completely over.
Vaping is a much slower nicotine delivery system. It's like a solar fueled car, slow steady stream of what's needed (sun) (vapor) to power us through.
Smoking is like fueling a car with gas. The distance one can go between refuels, is dependent upon the vehicle. (Body).
Some are set up to do both. Sometimes there's just not enough sunshine hours in the day to get one safely through.
Banning the use of the solar fueled car forces people to depend only only on the gasoline fueled car.
That's plumb crazy.

I totally agree with DC2.

 

[Jman8]

You're wrong. There's always fat people. It's ok to hate them and be discriminatory against them.

How come I see a whole bunch of fat people (like myself) in various public places, but don't see any smokers (like myself) who are smoking? Seems like we live in a society that tolerates obesity, even if they loathe it on the inside, but absolutely hates smokers smoking, even if we still think it looks kinda cool.

I currently know of no one who allows smoking in their private residence. Pretty sure I know a whole bunch of people that allow us fat people to visit their residence, and oh my god, eat stuff while there.

 

[DC2]

Right, that's an important point because increasingly draconian smoking bans are becoming more and more commonplace -- outdoor bans and so forth. When we discuss this topic, I think a lot of us are talking past each other because we're used to a particular type of indoor smoking ban, and a number of people here don't think it's unreasonable to put the PV away in certain, if not most, buildings.

And that's fine, but if we allow vaping to be categorized in the public consciousness as akin to smoking, then we will face far more intrusive restrictions in the very near future. Or now, depending on where you live. We've already seen outrageous examples -- like the prohibition against vaping within 25 feet of a bus stop in Washington DC, or against vaping anywhere on a college campus, for instance. Or within 3 blocks of a hospital building. Or within your own car if you're on hospital grounds.

Honestly, restrictions like those would be unacceptable even if they only concerned cigarette smokers, but when the same establishment forces that insist you're a second-class citizen for smoking also go out of their way to oppose the most effective smoking replacements available -- to keep you paying regressive sin taxes or in pursuit of some misguided crusade against nicotine (which by itself is effectively harmless) -- then you know you've got trouble. We are, in a very real sense, fighting for people's lives here. Scoff if you like, but anyone who smoked for any considerable time before finding e-cigarettes knows it's true.

It should go without saying that private establishments (and even physically enclosed public establishments) have the right to prohibit vaping. It also goes without saying that individuals who pointedly flout such prohibitions should be more considerate. As I see it, those statements are self-evident, and therefore only of scant interest.

The real issue is that certain anti-vaping policies, public or private, current or future, bespeak an aggressive and malignant ignorance that must be opposed. That doesn't mean we should all march on the nearest health-food restaurant and conduct a cloud-blowing contest. That doesn't even mean that any particular policy maker doesn't have a right to enact ignorant policies on his own property. It just means that we should try our damnedest to educate the uninformed, and to fight the dishonest.

Best post on this topic I have ever seen.

 

[Uma]

You're wrong. There's always fat people. It's ok to hate them and be discriminatory against them.

They've been setting it up to rally for taxing sugar, fat, & obesity. Keeping people poor, keeps them from purchasing the wrong foods, it's all for the children Don'tcha know.

 

[JMarca]

Ah... the saga continues.
Yet another it's my right to vape anywhere thread.

Can't we drop these and talk about something else?
Anyone need battery advice or want to know which e-go battery to buy?

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

They've been setting it up to rally for taxing sugar, fat, & obesity. Keeping people poor, keeps them from purchasing the wrong foods, it's all for the children Don'tcha know.

And insurance issues...don't even get me started. Yes, there IS quite literal, financial, legal and health care discrimination either already extant or in the works against the fat...which not very many people have so much as said "boo" to thus far...until the 60-some percent of us who are overweight start feeling it.

And yes. There absolutely is continuous media bombardment of shame and disgust for fat people (ironically, considering how many of us are fat), I'd say comparable to the order of shame and disgust for smokers. It is literally nonstop and everywhere you look. In addition, for many of us, if we're fat, "well-wishing" family, friends and even strangers will NOT HESITATE to say so...sweetly. (And intrusively and relentlessly...)

Whether or not one feels it's justified isn't the point I'm trying to make here (I won't make that judgment) - it's the fact that there is, indeed, discrimination on virtually every level right now for the fat, and it's getting (legally and economically) worse by the minute.

So yeah. I'd say comparable to anti-smoking, for sure.

Some may say "But people CHOOSE to get fat." Yeah. We CHOOSE to vape, too.

ETA: Even the fat hate the fat. I remember when I was 20 lbs. overweight after having my second son. My mother-in-law, who at 5'4" weighed TWO HUNDRED AND TEN POUNDS, told me RELENTLESSLY that she "wanted me to lose weight" for "your (my) health."

It was non-stop, this weight-deteriorated-kneed Weeble telling me "sweetly" over and over aaaaaaaaaaand over again how I was fat........

She even took a picture of me once, showed it to me on he digicam and said, "Don't worry, I'll just cut all this" (and she swept her finger FROM MY NECK TO MY TOES in the picture) out."

Can I get a ZOMG?

 

[Uma]

How come I see a whole bunch of fat people (like myself) in various public places, but don't see any smokers (like myself) who are smoking? Seems like we live in a society that tolerates obesity, even if they loathe it on the inside, but absolutely hates smokers smoking, even if we still think it looks kinda cool.

I currently know of no one who allows smoking in their private residence. Pretty sure I know a whole bunch of people that allow us fat people to visit their residence, and oh my god, eat stuff while there.

Had they of not quit smoking with force fed big Pharma products, they'd still be slim.

Remember when they, including the gov, gave smokes away for free? Smoking helped to relieve stress, boredom, and helped one to focus. They were also extremely addictive. As this was happening, the board rooms were filled with plans to demoralize, demonize, and excessively tax the addicted. Imagine that. Gee, I wonder who was on that brainwashing board....

 

[CaliforniaGirl]

Ah... the saga continues.
Yet another it's my right to vape anywhere thread.

Can't we drop these and talk about something else?
Anyone need battery advice or want to know which e-go battery to buy?

No, but I can tell you which political party to switch to in order for me to keep on top of my jones.

Does that help?