Why do vapers expect to be treated differently than smokers?

[Mad Scientist]

. . .

But I do think there is a balance in there. Pissing people off isn't usually productive. I behave essentially the same as when I smoked. Like put the PV away as I go in the store. I don't have time to educated every single person in the grocery and for everybody that I might get a chance to talk to, tons will say nothing but just think, "what a twerp" because they'll think it's "smoking".

That is, while I don't believe in being a door mat, I also think we need more friends and allies, not more enemies. We got enough enemies in the rabid ANTZ ...... and they're difficult enough to deal with as it is...

I agree about not walking into a store vaping because as it stands, far too few people recognize the difference between vaping and smoking, also the shop owner might not like it (and its his business so his rules). I would be inclined to ask.

Where I draw the line is placating others who want the government to control my behavior for no reason. That is not a way to make friends or marshall allies. That is the direct route to more regulation. When someone wants to tell me I can't vape, not out of courtesy to them or they find the vapor irritating or distracting (which case I would stop) but because they can point to something that says smoking not allowed, they can kiss my azz. I simply say I'm not smoking and NIH studies indicate there is nothing harmful about it.

The politics of the FDA are so far removed from the soccer mom, nanny state stuff we're talking about here, there's no point in even mentioning it in this discussion.

 

[ScubaBebe]

I read in a post yesterday that it was "bad form" to vape where smoking is not allowed. Today I read we should not vape in no smoking areas....why? Sounds like the bad form comment.
One of the reasons I started vaping is because of the NO Smoking zealots. Vaping, if you're not blowing huge clouds or blowing it into someones face not very different than wearing perfume. (PG allergy may be an exception.)
These people took the decision out of the business owners hands and decided ALL establishments were to be NON smoking. Now they have sidewalks, parks, beaches....with no scientific justification. It's only going to get worse if we don't stand up for ourselves.
Playing their game is not going to get them to change sides it only empowers that mentality. I believe in being courteous and conscious of other peoples rights and if asked out in public I will politely explain vaping. Depending on the result, I will either put it away, leave or vape on. We, as a group, have to stop cowering. Vaping in public brings new awareness and converts therefore growing our numbers and helping others get off cigs.

 

[Earle]

I vape when I'm walking down the street and outside, but not inside stores, restaurants, around kids, etc... I sometimes stealth at work.

If I'm visiting someone, I ask their permission before I vape in their house. If it's an issue, I go outside.

I'm courteous about it, because I don't want vaping to be perceived in an unfavourable light by the uneducated. I explain it to people if they're interested, but don't feel getting up in someone's face about it would help the cause at all.

 

[mkbilbo]

I agree about not walking into a store vaping because as it stands, far too few people recognize the difference between vaping and smoking, also the shop owner might not like it (and its his business so his rules). I would be inclined to ask.

Where I draw the line is placating others who want the government to control my behavior for no reason. That is not a way to make friends or marshall allies. That is the direct route to more regulation. When someone wants to tell me I can't vape, not out of courtesy to them or they find the vapor irritating or distracting (which case I would stop) but because they can point to something that says smoking not allowed, they can kiss my azz. I simply say I'm not smoking and NIH studies indicate there is nothing harmful about it.

The politics of the FDA are so far removed from the soccer mom, nanny state stuff we're talking about here, there's no point in even mentioning it in this discussion.

Yeah, I in no way advocate being a door mat. Some people are just weird control freaks. It actually hasn't anything to do with the health of anybody, it's about being more powerful than somebody. Anybody. They can't have much of a life.

<eye roll>

I think most people, though, would be happy to discover there's a benign alternative to cigarettes those of us who can't quit nicotine can use. It's better for the (now ex-) smoker and everybody around us. I don't sit around and fret about it all day long, I just try to act in a way that doesn't make us look bad. Because most people never say anything, they just think, "What an ***".

(Hey, we've all done it. Thought that but said nothing. )

Also, for now, as people are just discovering this stuff, being in the "smoking sections", I can pass out ECF cards.

(Oh and the politics are a whole other kettle of fish. We need to get "in the face" with government. It's supposed to serve us, not the other way round.)

 

[SnakeFarm]

(Oh and the politics are a whole other kettle of fish. We need to get "in the face" with government. It's supposed to serve us, not the other way round.)

Right! That's the way is SHOULD work in America (U.S. of) Problem is now, both major parties are state-ist. That is, they both behave as if they believe that ultimate power derives from some branch of government or other. The wise men who started this country were actually bold enough to state that all power vested in the government derives from the consent of the governed. Sadly, even those bright enough to grasp that will usually scoff at it once they do.

 

[patkin]

I don't vape outside in smoking areas. I don't do it because I don't want vaping to be any more associated with smoking than it already is. I don't vape inside anywhere except home or my car unless its stealth in a bathroom because I don't want vaping getting a bad reputation. I don't drink, but if I did go to a bar, and saw no one smoking or vaping, I would ask management if it was okay to vape before doing it. I do vape most anywhere outside within reason like x-number of feet from a building entrance. I see myself as part of a "community" (of vapers) and deem my own behavior as, at least partially, responsible for the reputation of that community. I choose my actions in accordance with that thinking. Also, along that line, the more rude/entitled vapers I see or hear of, the less likely I am to vape in public at all because I don't want to be identified/associated with that.

PS: I don't use vaping as a form a rebellion the way, for instance, attire is to some.

 

[unsure]

Why do vapers expect to be treated differently than smokers?

Because we who vape are Gods amongst humans!

 

[CookingWithGuns]

One should consider the attitude towards cigarettes before it was known how unhealthy they were. You could, and did, smoke them anywhere, including on airplanes. You could walk into a corner store with one lit up, and in some places put it out right on that floor.

So... since vaping is safe, why shouldn't it be treated like cigarettes were when they were "safe"?

 

[ScubaBebe]

Because we are NOT smokers!

 

[DancingHeretik]

CAUTION: Long rant ahead! I've given more thought to this topic than I'd care to admit, in my many years as a smoker. I have to add that I am also a nurse (a high percentage of whom smoke) and a professor of psych nursing, thus behavior is a topic I know a bit about. I am old enough to recall the days when people commonly smoked in their offices, and even remember a physician who was notorious for having a cig dangling from his mouth as he was stitching people up in a local hospital ER (this was only in the late 70's, not so long ago as one might suspect.) I live in the north woods of Michigan, and though I consider myself a liberal, have a bit of a "Don't Tread On Me" attitude when it comes to personal liberties (I like to shoot skeet in my back yard.) The reason for all this background, is that I view smoking bans with very mixed feelings, and now that I'm a 3 month non-smoker/vaper, this gets added to the equation. Personally, I have long felt that the "science" of second hand smoke information is sketchy at best. While I can readily understand the potential for harm of high concentrations of second hand smoke in a closed environment, expanding that risk to include wafts of smoke in an outdoor environment seems neither logical, nor would I suspect, are there any sound scientific studies to verify this danger. I live in an area where the air is remarkably clean, and everytime I have lived in, or more recently visited a city, I am appalled by the air quality. Further, given the amount of auto exhaust and industrial pollution present in our cities, where the majority of people live, I find it truly amazing that people will complain about second hand smoke! The only sense I can make of this is that people are helpless, or feel helpless, to address real problems, so they get a sense of control over taking steps against perceived problems which are on a scale they can address. Thus the ire towards smokers. Does it fix the all too real problem of poor air quality which the vast majority of Americans live with? Not in the least. Does it give them someone to point a finger at, to feel that they are trying to make things better? Unfortunately, yes. I believe that all of the devisivness in this country is a form of lateral violence. We feel helpless to fix real problems, so we lash out at those around us to maintain a sense of control. I think it is inevitable that ecigs are going to be lumped in with real cigs for this reason. The ire towards smokers is not based on logic or facts, but is a knee-jerk reaction of people in need of a scapegoat.

I absolutely LOVE your post! I wish there were a LOVE button to click.

The studies that are cited to make smoking illegal have been judged invalid, than used anyway. They've gotten away with it because it's just common sense that cigarette smoke is unhealthy. So, it's been allowed to slide. And, I agree that it's obviously unfair to force people to put up with smoke in enclosed areas, especially when it's at work where they have no choice to be.

It's not about studies. It's about common sense.

Vaping is just as obviously safe as smoking is dangerous. And, common sense says that vaping is safe enough to be left alone until someone can prove there's a serious problem with it.

I used to get angry about all of our legal rights that are slipping away. I still can get quite angry about it if I allow myself to. But, mostly I now just feel sad.

We live in a society that thinks it's ok to walk all over people's rights and a government that is willing to take advantage of that. We left our constitution behind long ago.

It may be impolite to do some things. But, does every rude thing we could possibly do, need to also be illegal? Just the mere act of my (or your) existing is going to offend someone sometime. We annoy one another. That's what people do.

A lot of opinions have been stated, I can say that I never seen vaping as an,"get out of jail free" card. Just because vaping is not as bad as cigarette smoke does not mean it is not anoying wafting by someone around you who does not vape/smoke. respect for your fellow neighbor, ya know?

What exactly do you feel that you've done that would even need a "get out of jail free" card? Have you been so brow-beaten and shamed that you can't let it go?

You have done nothing wrong. That doesn't mean it's ok to be rude. I understand that. But, rudeness should not be an illegal activity. Our government is supposed to protect us from being harmed by one another, not from being offended by one another!

 

[Mad Scientist]

One should consider the attitude towards cigarettes before it was known how unhealthy they were. You could, and did, smoke them anywhere, including on airplanes. You could walk into a corner store with one lit up, and in some places put it out right on that floor.
Pole
So... since vaping is safe, why shouldn't it be treated like cigarettes were when they were "safe"?

Very good question. The reason is, I believe, because when smoking was popular and OK, a very large number of people did it, without shame or regret. Telling someone not to smoke would be unthinkable. You could smoke in the confined space of an airplane and the guy next to you would offer a light, not scowl like a schoolmarm. I remember those days. Now, so few people smoke, the smokers have lost their political power. Big tobacco is viewed as evil (even to us).

To abstract that, members of any group without political power will tend to be pushed to the margins unless they fight. That includes us. Capitulation is not really a viable option (and I'm not saying be militant or rude, but push back as appropriate). A government must have some rational basis for any exercise of power. When it comes to the health reasons and the FDA, a lot of that is really out of our hands. Our only fight there is to ensure politics and popular sentiment does not infect the science.

When it comes to local regulation and dealing with "well meaning" people who are really nothing but bullies in sheep's clothing, push back and push back hard.

 

[ricks]

Until its proven harmful, It should NOT be restricted at all.

 

[Katcandoo]

Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.
~ C. S. Lewis

 

[synthros]

Because it looks like smoking is not a fair reasoning period. It's childish of people to even go there. So what? But people are people. Got to live with them. I don't enjoy felling like I might be rebelling if I vape in certain places so I just don't. I vape for enjoyment. People are taking my fun away because of closed minded thinking but it happens in a lot of areas. Why I moved to the country with my animals so they can be themselves and I stay there a lot too for the same reason!

Agree, except for the moving to the country with my animals part
Why should magicians and thieves be treated differently? They both make stuff dissappear Because magicians aren't stealing anything! Do I think vapers and smokers should be treated differently? Yeah, but I also know it won't happen. The same reasons that vaping works so effectively for me as an alternative to smoking is how closely it actually mimics smoking. I get hand to mouth, nicotine and huge clouds that look exactly like smoke. That's fantastic for me, but I also realize that for the exact same reason people who are bothered by smoking (lots of people) will also be bothered by my vaping.

 

[Nermal]

I don't intend to be argumentative, but I do want to understand where you are coming from and also force you to think (and I'll likely learn something too). The other person's right you speak of, what, exactly, is that right and how might I violate it by vaping?

Yes. I was considering a similar reply, but you got there first. There seem to be unstated assumptions about the rights to two separate groups.

 

[mare ze dotes]

What exactly do you feel that you've done that would even need a "get out of jail free" card? Have you been so brow-beaten and shamed that you can't let it go?

You have done nothing wrong. That doesn't mean it's ok to be rude. I understand that. But, rudeness should not be an illegal activity. Our government is supposed to protect us from being harmed by one another, not from being offended by one another!

Um, that is not what I ment. I ment to say it is good to be kind and thoughtful of your kin, friends and neighbors. Rude people are unpleasent.

 

[DancingHeretik]

Um, that is not what I ment. I ment to say it is good to be kind and thoughtful of your kin, friends and neighbors. Rude people are unpleasent.

Oops, sorry! I must have misunderstood.

 

[GSpence21]

A lot has been said here in this post i part of the crowd that thinks we should be able to vape any where we want two personal experiences of mine the first got me a lil peaved but u didn't fight it was asked a buddy who works at a local restaurant what their policy was on vaping and he said they kindly ask them to move out side which I can understand its a privately owned place and didn't want to start a fuss the other being when I vap at work outside at the " smokers" shack yes now we have more and more that have chose to val and very proud about that but a buddy at work any time he smells my vapor he says there is no way he can be mad about it blowing in his face(wind)

 

[ricks]

People should be kind to us... We are NOT smoking and doing any harm to them. We are using a device that gets us off the nasty harmful crap that comes from smoking. We need to be able to Vape where we want without any BS.

 

[CookeMonster]

The only way we're going to gain any acceptance from the non-smoking majority is to get them curious about what it is. By lurking in SMOKING ZONES, we are out of sight, out of mind. I'm not advocating going out of your way to piss people off, but to be visible and separate from the tobacco smokers. Be indulging in public places where smoking is not allowed. Of course, be respectful of requests of ownership and if asked to go outside or whatnot, pacify them. Engage in discussion/debate about it whenever someone seems to be open to TWO SIDED dialogue. That is the only reason or way that the non-smokers will become educated about it. The other way is the media, and so far, so good on that angle. Starting to see some ecig commercials, and celebrities on talk shows endorsing it. That is exactly how public opinion is swaying AGAINST guns, so let's hope we get the jump on them FOR vaping.