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why does my SS temp control coil taste worse than Kanthal?

Discussion in 'General Vaping Discussion' started by damachine, Mar 15, 2019.

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  1. damachine

    damachine Full Member

    Feb 17, 2019
    I use 316 SS, and I made sure to space it out in my RDA build. For Kanthal wire, there is no spacing and when I dry fire, the heat is even.

    I feel I'm getting hot spots with temp control due to crackling noise and juice getting into my mouth. Also, to get any kind of satisfying vape requires 400 F at least which kind of defeats the purpose of temp control since that's probably approaching the temp of the Kanthal (22 W).

    I've used the Geekvape Gbox. Is temp control overrated or am I doing it wrong?

    thanks
     
  2. vapdivrr

    vapdivrr ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 8, 2012
    sarasota,fl
    Temp control is over rated and ss wire imo tastes flat. Actually not sure it's over rated, I tried it a few times and personally didnt like it what so ever, same with as wire. I found the taste flat , but its because I have been vaping kanthal for 7 years and am accustomed to its flavor....

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
     
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  3. greek mule

    greek mule Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 2, 2018
    Athens,Greece
    Any more info from you would be helpful for us to help you.

    Are you using the Radar rda? Dual coils?
    Wire gauge-number of wraps.
    Crackling noise and juice getting into mouth are signs of improperly wick and low wattage.
     
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  4. Gentle Smoke

    Gentle Smoke Senior Member

    Jan 31, 2019
    I'm using TC and I think it works well. As to 400 degrees, PG boils at 377 and VG at 554. Unless you add water or alcohol to your juice to lower the boiling point, your temp will be between the prior two numbers. I add 7% whiskey to my 12.5/87.5% PG/VG mix and I'm vaping at 340F. Without such, I'd be up around 480F. I find that TC gives a more stable heat output, reduces VG breakdown and thereby improves flavor. However, nothing is perfect in this world. Knowing what the TCR is for your wire is difficult. SS 316L is usually stated as .0092 (forgive me if I didn't get the zeros right). But, I will set it in the range of .0088 to .0096 depending on juice and environmental conditions. Overshooting on TCR could be contributing to your coil splatter. However, I'm inclined to think wicking and coil spacing are the primary cause of the splatter. And ... one last comment about stable heating. With my APV, I find that the initial resistance / ohms runs on the low side when initially set when the coils are cold. Hence i get less than adequate heat output. So I take a hit to warm the coils and reset the battery for slightly higher resistance. And, there always the potential that your mod reads resistance on the high side. As said, its not a perfect world.
     
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  5. Jebbn

    Jebbn Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    I switched to temp control a month to 6weeks so ago, I prefer it a lot more than kanthal using wattage.
    Last night and through today I have been playing with KA1 and ss coils comparing taste, perceived temp(watts vs tc) and have come to the conclusion I vape with KA1 and 316LSS on wattage at a lower temp than I do using 316Lss on temp control.
    The other thing I noticed is that I no longer like the taste of kanthal! I used to prefer kanthal over ss!
    I use TC set between 180c and 210c depending on what Im trying to get out of a vape. If I set a ss coil up for wattage and vape awhile then pick up a similar wound coil in another exact same rta using TC and try to gauge the temp, I always end up at about 160c. I dont know why I vape cooler on wattage than TC. Maybe because I am subconsciously erring on the side of caution with wattage.
    I use spaced ss coils. I dont like to mtl using tc but find it so much better for D2L. I pretty much only D2L now.
    After the last few days experimenting I dont think my stockpile of KA1 is going to get used very much going forward.
    I dont know why you are getting crackling sounds and juice in your mouth. Your wicking might be flawed.
     
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  6. vapdivrr

    vapdivrr ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 8, 2012
    sarasota,fl
    Sounds why to complicated
     
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  7. Topwater Elvis

    Topwater Elvis Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Dec 26, 2012
    Texas
    The different methods of vaping don't work 'best' for every individual.
    Find one that works best for you & be happy.
    It's not like you're missing out on anything if you don't use a similar method as others.
     
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  8. P3ch3

    P3ch3 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 31, 2019
    this... that was my 1st mistake, and for several mods TCR must be arround: 0.00085- 0.00096 as stated, and is simple, set your device to max temp, no fire, leave it sat arround, at normal room temp, then fire it,

    interesting, pods use spaced coils, also, do you dry fire SS for mtl ? your coils?

    Regards,
     
  9. Jazzman

    Jazzman Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 24, 2013
    High Desert, CA
    The difference between the 2 is probably the TC mode will keep pushing power until your set temp is reached, and it may have a higher boost feature to get there quicker. The wattage mode just applies the power you set and whatever that turns out to be temp wise is what you get. Wattage mode has no real way to hit a desired temp. You just have to dial in the vape you like by power.

    I would check your set point for TC and if it's not the vape your looking for raise it or lower it to match the vape experience you like with wattage mode. With a decent TC device it should be fairly close to what you set and reliably hit that temp... and if it isn't a new TC mod might be in order.

    Conversely, if you prefer the vape on the TC just raise or lower the watts in wattage mode to generally match the TC mode you prefer by taste, warmth, or clouds.
     
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  10. tdman77

    tdman77 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 12, 2019
    New Orleans
    Not all mods are able to to TC very well. Both my Aegis mods are marginal at TC. You might have better results manually adjusting in TCR. I find on the Aegis a TCR setting of 115 works much better than the factory set SS316 setting. Also what wattage are you setting while in TC? You need to be at or a little higher than you would be in wattage mode. Check out steam-engine.org if you need help finding the wattage for your coil build. Unless you are using a high end mod most mods need to be tinkered with for the best TC results.
     
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  11. greek mule

    greek mule Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 2, 2018
    Athens,Greece
    Have you set the wattage at TC Mode?If not maybe you lack of power.
    Select TC SS316 mode.
    Click fire button once.
    Press plus (right button) to increase wattage.In TC you can set power up to 80Watt.Once preferred wattage is selected,click fire button once and you'r done.
     
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  12. kbeam418

    kbeam418 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 5, 2015
    Toledo,Oh
    Well first of all I just want to say whatever keeps you off the cigarettes is what you should use. The whole point of temp control is for the coil to instantly come to temp and stay there, 400f is pretty low even on my tight mtl coils. Set it to whatever temperature you like and let the board take care of the wattage. Geekvape doesn't have the best board for temp control, very few devices do temp control well imo you really need to have a dna device to get a temp control vape.
     
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  13. ScottP

    ScottP Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 9, 2013
    Houston, TX
    400F is a bit low, try 435F and set the max wattage to about 30-35ish to get a faster ramp up. You won't be using the full 35watts, that just sets the ceiling to use when getting up to the target temp. That should help with both the crackling and the vape quality. I will add that with a completely new coil I always get some cracking in either wattage or TC for about the first tank, then it settles down.

    Even if you do get near or even above the same wattage it doesn't defeat the purpose. If you look at the top chart below, the vertical black line is Temperature and the Horizontal is Time. In Wattage mode the the temp curve of the coil is going to look something like the red line. If you build your coil and set the wattage so that it peaks at the temp you want to vape at (blue line) you are going to have a slower ramp up time. If you build and set the wattage so that you hit your desired temp quickly (green line) then, if you take too long of a puff, you will overshoot that temp and potentially overheat your juice.

    There is no way around that other than using TC which when done properly can achieve results like in the bottom chart so you can get BOTH fast ramp up and a peak temp right where you want it without risk of overheating.

    [​IMG]

    It might help to know what mod you are using. Some mods are awesome at TC some completely suck.
     
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  14. Vapedog

    Vapedog Super Member

    Oct 28, 2018
    I personally can't stand SS coils, I taste metal in my vape and it to me messes up the flavour.
     
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  15. ScottP

    ScottP Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 9, 2013
    Houston, TX
    Odd, I vaped with Kanthal for a few years before trying SS and TC, I immediately noticed LESS metal taste with SS. SS just tastes cleaner to me and I have heard many others say the same. Then again, taste is subjective.
     
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  16. Wayneo

    Wayneo Super Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 5, 2015
    Oh Canada
    Continuing with this thought .......... maybe the 'Temp set' could be the max you ever want to reach, and adjust your watts for flavor.
    Really?
     
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  17. kbeam418

    kbeam418 Super Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 5, 2015
    Toledo,Oh
    It can be done both ways but what's the point? Assuming the wicking is good and tank/rda is full you shouldn't be worrying about dry hits.
     
  18. Wayneo

    Wayneo Super Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 5, 2015
    Oh Canada
    kbeam418 I don't ever worry about dry hits, but you dodged the question directed at you. Now I have to guess it was just your opinion, and not posted as a fact :shock:
     
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  19. ScottP

    ScottP Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 9, 2013
    Houston, TX
    Avoiding or at least reducing the harshness of dry hit's is NOT the primary purpose of TC but more of a bonus effect. As I said above and explained with my charts, the primary purpose is to get a fast ramp up with a capped max temp so you do not over heat your juice to the point it starts breaking down into other chemicals.

    Think of it like the temp dial on your oven. You set the dial to 350F and then gas ovens push LOTS of gas and make a large fire underneath (or the electric heating elements get red hot) to heat the oven to temp quickly. Then once 350F is reached it backs off of the gas or electricity and keeps adjusting to keep the oven at that temp.
     
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  20. Vapedog

    Vapedog Super Member

    Oct 28, 2018
    A lot say they dont, some do like me though. I taste metallic also in some SS cutlery as well. Naturally they go in the bin if I do.
     
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