they are not interested either way. they are looking for an easy choice.
whom ever shouts the loudest and longest wins.
regards
mike
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Need help from former MFS (MyFreedomSmokes) customers
Has any found a supplier or company that has tobacco e-juice like or very similar to MFS Turbosmog, Tall Paul, or Red Luck?
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Why does the "for the children" argument work so well for politicians?
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they are not interested either way. they are looking for an easy choice.
whom ever shouts the loudest and longest wins.
regards
mike
Except in CR. Those people didn't get tired of the smell, butts, damage / fires, cause ya see, those people are special. But all those people in the US, they are normal people and thus here on a vaping forum, you need to accept what is normal and realize that unless you too are tired of these things, then you are abnormal. So abnormal that on this very vaping forum we'll point that out to you many times a day, lest you forget or we accuse you of being in denial.
But along the way, we'll try to convince you that EVERYONE in CR is all in favor of smoking and love the smell of it, love the butts, and truly love the overwhelming amount of fires that occur from a society that honors smoking everywhere.
That's right, which is why Prague and CR are so unique. They are't a nanny state...
Some of mine, more than 30%. I try very hard to totally shun any flavor that contains any type of diketones, because that's a risk I know about. Could there be other risks? Absolutely! We just don't know about them yet, but if they are there, they WILL become clear eventually, as vaping really picks up. Once known, they can be dealt with constructively. But till they're known, I'm not going to worry about them; far too many other things to worry about, than "unknown unknowns."
But I do think it's foolhardy even for former smokers to consider vaping "safe" -- 95%-99% safER is all we know for sure. That's good enough for me, right now, but then I've already worked out the problems that vaping has already caused me, and if other problems arise, I'll deal with those too.
Andria
the reason there is should be concerned at the population level
is that any one group whom might be affected by any single ingredient
in e-juice is to small to to meet the threshold of harm needed to be
strictly regulated as they are attempting. reasonable health
warnings should suffice.there are many products containing warnings
pertaining to the small percentage of people that may be affected
by there use. is only with tobacco(namely cigarettes) and now
vaping where this uber over the top concern for safety manifests
itself. many things known to cause cancer are used every day
if they meet exposure standards.
regards
mike
And with that, I agree completely. Vaping IS far safer than many of the everyday products used by much of the population.
Andria
I understand. But the fact is a lot of people who smoke and vape refuse to be respectful of others. I've seen many people told to leave places because they won't stop vaping even though they were informed its wasn't allowed they continue anyway arguing its their right which is silly. Imagine if everywhere you went some store clerk, waitress, cashier or whatever was blowing clouds in your face because its their right. Your out eating but your surrounded by vapors blowing clouds so thick you can't see them. Your in line at the store and the person in front of you just keeps blowing vapor on you. You see most people just aren't gonna accept that. Doesn't really matter if its smoke or vapor its just not acceptable. Look I want to smoke and vape every where I go but I'm fully aware its not acceptable so I do those thing were I'm not bothering others. Failing to grasp that concept is the down fall of the entire I have a right to vape everywhere argument.
No matter the amount of web complaining, moaning, posting links to whatever argument it is makes no difference, it changes nothing, our society has determined they do not want others blowing a substance out of their mouths (besides air) into the space the public breaths.
Seriously, this is delusional thinking. This is implying that when you are in the US, you agree with nanny politics (as some of your posts actually convey), but when in Prague, and only strictly based on change in geography, your ideas change. Here (in Prague) it is allowed, so that makes it perfectly okay. Here (in the US) it is not allowed, and therefore you are abnormal / wrong / bad / a social meanie if you were to dare smoke (or worse vape) in a place where it is not allowed, even though that same place 15 years ago did allow it. So, what really changed? Was it that science discovered smoking (and SHS) is truly harmful? Perhaps, though very certain I can find peer reviewed studies that show "not all that harmful" (especially with regards to SHS, and for sure with regards to SHV). And if truly truly harmful here in the US, then fairly certain it would be equally harmful in the CR, thus necessary for World Order to step in and govern a nation that appears to allow harm to be brought to its people.
Prague is not unique. It has distinctions and one that a dual user like myself would probably greatly appreciate while visiting. But if I stayed there long enough to consider living, I'd wonder how much they are fooling themselves about their uniqueness and how soon could ANTZ get them to change. As an outsider, and never been to Prague person, I'm very convinced that in today's world it would be 10 years or less, especially if vapers on a vaping forum are convinced that SHV is plausibly harmful to people in enclosed spaces. As long as that idea is the predominant one in world society, then Prague will fold way faster than I think you want to believe.
Furthermore, as you continue to carry the torch in some respects to ANTZ position (of course vaping is going to be banned where smoking is), then if I were to move to Prague, I'd be arguing for that there, just as you do that here. Why wouldn't I? If it is plausibly harmful / annoying here, it is equally harmful / annoying there. And here in the information age, I don't even need to live in Prague or CR to have that sort of change occur within Prague. If I lived in Prague and was carrying torch for ANTZ, I'd get it done in a year, 3 at the very most. Outside of CR, with ability to communicate with VIP's in Prague at lightning speed, I'd be able to have it done in 10 years. And if there is no more resistance to be had in the US cause well everyone, but me, decided it just ain't worth it anymore, then I'd come over to Prague to do one of two things: make sure Prague gets on board with ANTZ philosophy (probably wouldn't do this, but would recall that there's a guy I once knew on ECF who had no issues with US going to pot, so why would I have issues if Prague suddenly became ANTZ-like) -or- I'd enjoy life in Prague for the 10 more years of free smoking / vaping that we will enjoy until ANTZ undoubtedly takes it over and does its voodoo to make sure you can't smoke or vape anywhere in CR, anymore. I'd absolutely despise this occurring in Prague, but I'd probably be on some forum in 2025 talking with stevegmu who's like, "that's just how Prague is now. Don't like it. Leave. I'm going to live on Mars pretty soon where they don't have these rules in place yet, and I'm sure they never... ever... will."
That's right and many people don't want to risk breathing the unknown substances from other peoples vapor.
I live by societal standards and norms...
You clearly don't know the history and culture of Prague and CR...
This. We vapers have seen the continued encroachment on the liberties of smokers, both on private property where it should be up to the property owner to decide whether smoking is acceptable, and now even outdoors in many "public" places. Yet some people here say we vapers should only vape where smoking is "allowed" despite the fact that there isn't a shred of evidence that second hand vape is at all harmful to any normal person. Needless to say, that notion is downright offensive to some of us.
Exactly, and it didn't take you a book of text to explain.
If smoking or vaping is allowed then do it if not do it where it is. Oh the outrage and abuse that implies, lol.
But there's no evidence it isn't harmful either, remember we just don't know, so why would others who don't vape want to be exposed to vapor?? Answer is they don't, simple.
Exactly...
In the US, we try to legislate away problems; in Prague and CR, they sweep the sidewalks and streets nightly to clean the cigarette butts and remnants of cigarettes with the other stuff; they paint and clean and de odorize and put out fires, or fireproof... If tourists complain, too bad...
You asked for it, so here's my "for the children" argument.
Public funds leeched by TC parasites could provide housing for half of CA homeless children. Defund TC for the children!
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6169994
Public funds leeched by TC parasites could provide housing for half of CA homeless children. Defund TC for the children!
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/6169994
Also, those who spout "we just don't know" failed to read 2000+ studies now available on the safety and efficacy of vaping. PubMed is open to anyone for a quick search.
we most certainly do know.
current studies and modern toxicology tell
us with reasonable certainty compared to
smoking vaping is as harmful as most tap water
and safer than some can be said to be.
regards
mike
I can read studies that will tell me anything I want them to, lol, all meaningless.
we most certainly do know.
current studies and modern toxicology tell
us with reasonable certainty compared to
smoking vaping is as harmful as most tap water
and safer than some can be said to be.
regards
mike
Makes no difference. Fact is people don't want to be exposed to our habit and shouldn't be forced to. Simple.
Yesterday, I was in 3 different public places, none of which I've previously vaped in before. In none of them did I ask before I started vaping. In 2 of the 3, at no point did I bother to ask.
In all of them, I vaped with respect to others around me. I find this easy to do. In none of the places did I have anyone approach me to ask me to stop. I fully get that some may have chosen not to approach me, due to fear of confrontation, and instead may write to the same senators I write to (all of whom are currently Republican) and say they don't like this. Point of this paragraph though is that I did vape in these places with respect to others around me.
One of these places (the first I visited) was a bowling alley and I vaped each time behind the lanes or where people sit when they are actively bowling. I didn't vape there, but did vape all of 8 feet behind that space, out of respect to bowlers in what ended up being a crowded bowling alley. Oh, that just so happens to have 2 very popular bars in it, and which are arguably much bigger draw for the establishment than the bowling. I did get one dirty look from a patron, and was the only dirty look I got over the course of my 8 hours of being out. This dirty look came from a girl that I would estimate was around 10 years old. Yep, I chose to vape in a place, indoors, where children may be present and in this case, many were present. But I made sure I was in a space that would not be possible to 'blow it directly into someone's face.' Therefore, vaping with respect. I recognize that what I chose to do is questionable / debatable, and yet here on a vaping forum I'm up for the debate (always) and in with less experienced folks who have very little clue on what vaping / vapor entails, the questionable aspect would be rather easy for me to respond to, thus a very short debate, I would reckon.
The people who smoke or vape where it may, or many not be acceptable, either get what it means to vape with respect, or they don't. If they don't, they will likely be approached. As I have thus far never been approached, and have been vaping indoors many times, I am left to conclude that what will prevent me from vaping in each of these places say 1 to 10 years from now, is a smear campaign (much like what happened with SHS) where the 10 year old will be told to spot those 'ecig thingies' and stay far away from them because they could make you die, that day! Perhaps it'll be something else that isn't resembling fear mongering that causes the same places to disallow me to vape in these places and enforces it very rigidly, but thus far into my vaping and political awareness, I am convinced that it will be between 98% and 100% likely due to a smear campaign, and not related to science, except superficially.
The second place I vaped was a restaurant. Vaped indoors. Restaurant was dead, but I was with group of 10 and out of respect, I just went to restroom, took a puff and went on my merry way. This type of indoor vaping, regardless of establishment's rules, strikes me as a no-brainer and really don't see how anyone could debate this but am always up for that one if anyone reading this thinks there's some angle I haven't considered.
Third place I vaped was very crowded bar / club where music is pumped so high you are sure your ears will be ringing for a couple days afterward. No kids will ever be allowed in this place (legally) for a long while, so not a kids issue on this one. I noticed when sitting down and looking around that there appears to be zero vapers here, but because the music is so loud and because this is essentially a meet market, then I'm very certain no one will even notice me vaping. And I did. Always kinda wondering if it is allowed, but also knowing if I actually get confronted by some bouncer type, I'll do my best to explain it, and if answer is a firm no, that's okay, I WILL be vaping in your restrooms, guaranteed. Yet, being the dual user that I am, I went out for a smoke (my first in last 7 days) and when I came back in, chose to ask a bouncer type if vaping is allowed, and found out that even while this place is heavily crowded with people, that yes, yes it is allowed.
But give that place some time, and just enough ANTZ smears, and pay no attention to the fact that minors will never be present in this location where ear drums are likely being harmed nightly, but just remember that "for the children" carries with it such enormous weight, that this ought to be reason alone why I would never ever vape in that crowded of a public place, and is why society was (one day in the future) good to ban it in such locations. In Jan. 2015, it was perfectly acceptable to vape in there, but who knows what sort of smear campaigns will be in place in say Jan. of 2018 in that same venue. Then I'll perhaps be told of course you shouldn't vape in here. Do you see how crowded this place is? Do you not understand how deadly SHV is? Do you not visit ECF where even fellow vapers are convinced that you should never ever vape indoors unless you are given explicit permission to do so? What the heck is wrong with you?
Won't anyone think of the respectful vaper?
(Btw, this is the short version of what I wanted to say about my vaping in public last night.)
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