Why don't people want e-liquid labels changed?

[KattMamma]

Why does it bother you that VG / PG is toxic to some people? Are you afraid that the government is going to take e-cigs away?

Let me say it this way: VG / PG is not entirely nontoxic. It might not cause death and it might not cause permanent damage but in my case it was not nontoxic.

It's the word "toxic" that I take issue with - if you're allergic to it, or sensitive to it, ok, don't use it. But don't label it "toxic" because that has a whole different meaning.

 

[AndriaD]

It's the word "toxic" that I take issue with - if you're allergic to it, or sensitive to it, ok, don't use it. But don't label it "toxic" because that has a whole different meaning.

Yes, exactly. Myself, and A WHOLE LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE! are allergic to cats. But that doesn't mean cats are "toxic." It means they have detergent in their saliva that a lot of people are allergic to. Everytime I see my cat doing her endless licking and self-grooming, I point out to her that if she just kept her saliva in her mouth where it belongs, I wouldn't need a Zyrtec everyday.

Andria

 

[KattMamma]

Yes, exactly. Myself, and A WHOLE LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE! are allergic to cats. But that doesn't mean cats are "toxic." It means they have detergent in their saliva that a lot of people are allergic to. Everytime I see my cat doing her endless licking and self-grooming, I point out to her that if she just kept her saliva in her mouth where it belongs, I wouldn't need a Zyrtec everyday.

Andria

Cats... funny, given my name (my nickname IRL is Katt, but some friends actually do call me KattMamma) that I am allergic to cats but didn't know it until I was in my mid thirties. My hubby and I had just moved in together, and he was allergic to cats, so I tearfully gave my cat to a friend, and was surprised when my daily sinus headaches became occasional sinus headaches. I have so many allergies that it just never clicked in my brain that it was my cat (who often slept in my bed) causing the daily headaches.

 

[scrabble]

It's the word "toxic" that I take issue with - if you're allergic to it, or sensitive to it, ok, don't use it. But don't label it "toxic" because that has a whole different meaning.

Well cats and trees aren't toxins but inhalants are.

Here are the synonyms of nontoxic: nonpoisonous, innocuous, harmless, benign, safe, nonirritating, hypoallergenic

For myself, I can't say that vaping was entirely nontoxic to me. It WAS toxic. But the good thing is that I have options. It might be that the particular liquid was rancid all on its own. Or it could be that it had more of one thing than another (VG or PG). The bottle wasn't labeled so I don't know. I actually plan to start making my own and I'm going to figure out which is the toxin to me. It's a harsh word but it fits.

 

[KattMamma]

I actually plan to start making my own and I'm going to figure out which is the toxin to me.

Making your own is a good choice. I make mine.

I still take issue with your wording - why would you not want to say it this way :

I actually plan to start making my own and I'm going to figure out which is the irritant to me.

Or if you're sure it's an allergic reaction (just because you react to it though doesn't mean it's an allergen), then maybe this is more appropriate :

I actually plan to start making my own and I'm going to figure out which is the allergen to me.

 

[AndriaD]

Cats... funny, given my name (my nickname IRL is Katt, but some friends actually do call me KattMamma) that I am allergic to cats but didn't know it until I was in my mid thirties. My hubby and I had just moved in together, and he was allergic to cats, so I tearfully gave my cat to a friend, and was surprised when my daily sinus headaches became occasional sinus headaches. I have so many allergies that it just never clicked in my brain that it was my cat (who often slept in my bed) causing the daily headaches.

My cat allergy was always one of my most severe, second only to my hives reaction to penicillin -- cats bother my eyes the most, itchy and burning to beat hell, but once, a houseful of kittens brought on an allergy attack so severe, it also brought on an asthma attack -- and since I was pregnant at the time, the ER wouldn't even give me oxygen. That was one of the longest nights of my life (second only to the night I woke up with stomach pain that ended up being a septic appendix!).

But after my son pitched a begging, pleading fit to keep the adorable tuxedo kitten that turned up on our carport, I began taking zyrtec daily; once I had been doing that for about a year, we experimented with letting the cat spend some time in the house, and thanks to the zyrtec, I experienced no problems, so now she's almost entirely a housecat. I let her out on days it's not raining (or in the winter, truly freezing), but she comes to the sliding glass door in the back about once an hour, to be let back in. I still don't let her into my bedroom; she sleeps on my husband's bed.

Andria

 

[Chibisaurus]

I don't think I understand. Who is against it? And what does it matter what the sticker on the bottle looks like, as long as the juice on the inside is good?

 

[KattMamma]

I don't think I understand. Who is against it? And what does it matter what the sticker on the bottle looks like, as long as the juice on the inside is good?

I know it's a long thread, but please give it a read. You will see there are good reasons to not let the government decide what should be on the labels.

 

[Chibisaurus]

I know it's a long thread, but please give it a read. You will see there are good reasons to not let the government decide what should be on the labels.

Ohh! The government shouldn't be able to touch it at all! I agree. So they can turn it into big tobacco. Nope! Leave it alone!

 

[scrabble]

Making your own is a good choice. I make mine.

I still take issue with your wording - why would you not want to say it this way :



Or if you're sure it's an allergic reaction (just because you react to it though doesn't mean it's an allergen), then maybe this is more appropriate :

I don't know, maybe it's because it makes me feel toxic and so that's the most fitting word for me. I had another issue with another liquid from a different company. I got sick from it. It made me feel poisoned. I had nausea and a headache, and overall disgust and discomfort. No problem with that company's other liquids but that particular flavor made me so ill. Even still, feeling ill from a flavoring and having an adverse effect like choking on excess mucus are different things. Two different liquids from two different companies, and two different adverse effects. Hmm. It sure has gotten me to pay attention and start doing my research.

 

[KattMamma]

I don't know, maybe it's because it makes me feel toxic and so that's the most fitting word for me. I had another issue with another liquid from a different company. I got sick from it. It made me feel poisoned. I had nausea and a headache, and overall disgust and discomfort. No problem with that company's other liquids but that particular flavor made me so ill. Even still, feeling ill from a flavoring and having an adverse effect like choking on excess mucus are different things. Two different liquids from two different companies, and two different adverse effects. Hmm. It sure has gotten me to pay attention and start doing my research.

It does sound like you are either allergic to or have sensitivities to some ingredients. I feel for ya there, because I have those issues with a LOT of things. I just don't call them toxins unless they're actually toxins (like some of the stuff they put in air fresheners and fabric softeners - toxins!! Cats, certain trees, certain flowers, PG, VG - not toxins, but I am allergic to the first 3)

 

[Jman8]

I agree that it's safer than smoking cigarettes but I don't agree that it's safer than drinking tap water.

People have drowned in tap water. Thus not 100% safe.

Google (as I just did): People killed by tap water. The 2 million plus hits might surprise you.

Arguably, to date, vaping is safer than drinking tap water.

 

[scrabble]

It does sound like you are either allergic to or have sensitivities to some ingredients. I feel for ya there, because I have those issues with a LOT of things. I just don't call them toxins unless they're actually toxins (like some of the stuff they put in air fresheners and fabric softeners - toxins!! Cats, certain trees, certain flowers, PG, VG - not toxins, but I am allergic to the first 3)

There are a lot of people who think drugs are medicines but I think they're not medicines, they're drugs. I also think those drugs are toxins. Yet the rest of the world calls them medicines. *shrug*

Ever use the nicotine patch? It gave me horrible nightmares. The patch wasn't a medicine. For me, it was a toxin. I understand that calling VG / PG a toxin is going to bother some people, because it tends to evoke a universal property that it just doesn't have. It can be toxic to some people without being toxic to all.

Anyhow, I'm looking forward to making my own juice because the one thing I believe the very most about vaping is that it has the potential to be optimized for every individual, and even perfected. That's miraculous.

 

[Chibisaurus]

Honestly, Vaping is the safest way for people to quit smoking. (And yes, these were all my attempts, and yes my experiences)

Cold turkey (Try One)
- Extreme Migraines
- Depression
- Weight Loss
- Hospital stay (3 Days)

Patches (Try Two)
- Red almost sunburn like patches
- Bumps
- Allergic Reaction

Chantix (Try Three)
- Depression
- Suicidal Thoughts
- Vivid Dreams (Nightmares, Mass murder , shootings, ect)
- Insomnia
- Coughing up blood.

Switched from Chantix to Zyban
- Weight Gain (Was fine with this)
- Constant (Almost daily) Tunnel vision
- Skin Rashes

Finally, for my fourth try I started Vaping
No bad side effects to date. I quit smoking the day after I bought my vape. Haven't picked up a smoke since. Haven't thought about it, haven't wanted to think about it.

 

[kaahn]

Because not everybody knows what diacetyl is or what it's claimed to do.

As @mshinall stated above....what happened to personal responsibility? You've taken that step. Let others take it as well. You don't need the govt/fda/babysitter to do it for you or anyone else for that matter.

 

[Chibisaurus]

I didn't know what diacetyl was either.. When I heard about it being in the ejuice, I went to an amazing site called google, and researched it. I also read that not only is there barley any in some most ejuices but there is more then 110x the amount in a cigarette.

The Truth About Diacetyl - Mt Baker Vapor
NOT Blowing Smoke - Why the California Department of Public Health LIES about electronic cigarettes, e-cigarettes, vaping, and vapor products

 

[skoony]

Are you hell-bent to continue to insult me? Does the truth offend you that badly? Look, it was from vaping. At first I thought it was from the PG but the more I read the more I find that it actually might've been caused by the VG.

I just read this a little while ago,

But now doctors have raised concerns about e-cigarette vapor separate from those about nicotine. A 42-year-old woman who had used e-cigarettes for seven months experienced shortness of breath, cough, and fever over the same period. The diagnosis was lipoid pneumonia—a chronic inflammation caused by fatty substances (lipids) in the lungs—due to e-cigarette use. The specific cause was repeated exposure to glycerin-based oils found in e-cigarette nicotine vapor. The patient’s symptoms improved after she stopped using e-cigarettes.1

A recent study also found that using an e-cigarette for five minutes began to restrict lung function. It was not clear which e-cigarette ingredient or combination of substances caused these reactions. However, other studies have shown that propylene glycol, the source of the e-cigarettes’ visible vapor, can bring on respiratory irritation and increase the chance of developing asthma.2

My only point is this: vaping has risks. I'm not afraid to admit it. Those particular risks are not going to keep me from vaping, but one thing that's really important to me is facts. I need information to be available to me. It was by reading information that I was able to confirm what that choking was about and I'm glad the information was available. Now I have the opportunity to contribute in building that body of information, because I experienced an adverse effect! I'm not going to keep it to myself and pretend like nothing bad happened just because some people want to maintain an idea of total safety so that the government won't interfere. It's just not all that safe. It isn't.

you have a letter from your doctor?
if not don't get on my case for being skeptical.
there is no fat in PG nor is it a cause of pneumonia.
the rest of the story is bull.
mike
​

 

[Chibisaurus]

Well it shouldn't be about restrictions imho, but about consumer choices.

To me it just looks unprofessional if someone is putting colorful bananas or pictures of comic super heros on a label of a quite powerful drug. Of course it is just a label, but its job is to make an impression on people which they then use to make product choices. And I would rather want to have the impression that I am buying from a company that handles my juice with the care and rigorous quality assessments as seen in pharmaceuticals, not banana markets.

I don't understand how it is unprofessional to put a piece of fruit on a label. Should Vodka not put a strawberry and banana on Strawberry banana flavored Vodka? It's the flavor. Most people buy things with there eyes, You see a banana on a label, you know that the flavor is banana.

 

[scrabble]

As @mshinall stated above....what happened to personal responsibility? You've taken that step. Let others take it as well. You don't need the govt/fda/babysitter to do it for you or anyone else for that matter.

I didn't search for the information, I discovered it on my own. There's no guarantee I would have come across that very important information.

As for personal responsibility, creators are responsible for their creations. There are already warnings on packaging which we're all familiar with (nicotine can harm a fetus). It isn't a bad thing to require manufacturers and distributors to label products. How do you feel about GMO's? Don't you think companies that sell GMO foods should be required to disclose? I do!!

 

[scrabble]

I didn't know what diacetyl was either.. When I heard about it being in the ejuice, I went to an amazing site called google, and researched it. I also read that not only is there barley any in some most ejuices but there is more then 110x the amount in a cigarette.

The Truth About Diacetyl - Mt Baker Vapor
NOT Blowing Smoke - Why the California Department of Public Health LIES about electronic cigarettes, e-cigarettes, vaping, and vapor products

The "heavy lung" feeling that some people experience has me wondering if it's related to diacetyl or other chemicals. How does anybody scientifically know, as of right now, if heavy lung does or does not have anything to do with toxicity?

This is how I found out about diacetyl. It's almost prophetic, look at the name: Suicide Bunny.

http://soundcloud.com/vp-live/suicide-bunny-e-liquids-test-positive?in=vp-live/sets/the-click-bang-archives