Why I Don't like Nic Salts

[John Phoenix]

This is just an opinion piece based on the info given from the website below.

Why I don't like nic salts. Look at the advantages and disadvantages on this page. My opinions on these follow. You'll see my opinion is the information is very misleading or down right wrong. What are Nicotine Salts? Beginner's Guide to Salt E-Liquid

Advantages 1st point Satisfaction. I mix my own ejuice with USP grade liquid nicotine. I get plenty of nicotine and I can really feel it. Nic salts won't help. 2nd point, Smoother nicotine hit - This is not telling the whole truth. Depending on the amount of PG, VG or liquid nicotine you use, you can easily adjust the smoothness or harshness of the vapor. Don't need a nic salt for that. 3rd point Less flavor impact - This is also misleading for the same reasons above. If you mix yourself, you can easily adjust the flavor strength. 4th point, Cheaper - This is an out right Lie. I know how expensive nic pods are. I can spend less than 20 dollars on liquid nicotine VG, PG an flavorings and make it least for at last 4 months. Now lets look at the Disadvantages. 1st point, Too much for some. I agree, nic salts are commonly sold with heavy nicotine, and I think it's overkill especially when you cannot adjust it yourself and lesser nic levels are not offered. 2nd point, Fewer options. As stated above many times, yes, you have way less options and for the expensive price you pay for nic pods, that's insane. 3rd point, Lower fun factor: This is misleading. Although many people find it fun to mix custom ejiuce, it can also be a real pain in the ... and messy too. The article ends by giving you another selling point for nic pods, "nicotine salts are the perfect choice if you need a strong dose of nicotine and prefer a more cigarette-like experience. " This is misleading. I get just as good a cigarette experience using a regular e-cig as I do smoking cigarettes. It is subjective not definitive as the false statement claims. It seems like this article was written like many others to push nic salts that have No real benefits over traditional ejiuce.

This my help someone to decide to try nic salts or not. Thanks for reading.

 

[bombastinator]

I mostly agree myself. The lack of research and transparency disturbs me, but they seem to be used mostly to make stealth vapes for low quality old tech devices and there really isn’t any net advantage other than that. There is truth that some people can’t handle unprotonated nic throat hit at the level they need, and a low strength protonated nic May have an advantage in that arena. It’s a tiny percentage of smokers though, and the problems created have been huge enough to possibly kill vaping.

 

[HigherStateD]

I mix my own nic salt juice.

I find the effects of the salt nic to be smoother, as well as the throat hit. They enter and leave much quicker than freebase, which only gives me a headache now.

I also fine my 2mg nic salt juice to not be too strong.

 

[somdcomputerguy]

The reason I have for dis-liking nic salts is because of the added 'ingredient' (usually, maybe always? benzoic acid) to give one a 'quicker' nic hit that doesn't last as long. This is the same (I think) 'ingredient' added to pre-rolled cigarettes for the same reason. As far as a higher nic level, that's primarily because of a pods lower voltage I believe. A few years ago when I went up north for my brothers funeral I saw somebody using a Juul. I was (sort of) surprised that he really knew nothing about e-liquids, and I certainly wasn't surprised when I told him that the juice in his pod had nearly twice the nic level than the liquid in my RTA.

 

[Letitia]

I mix with salts and the th is absolutely lessened with salts, and yes most of my mixes are max vg-80vg. Frankly it isn't up to any of us to bash either freebase or salts, to each their own.

 

[somdcomputerguy]

I do agree to the 'to each their own' thing, and I wouldn't ever even consider telling somebody that freebase is better or worse than salts, in fact I might even try to explain the differences if one was interested, or at least tell them to duck it (rather than google it) or search on YouTube. I just have no interest in trying or using salts myself.

 

[United States]

I don't have a like or dislike for nic-salt. They are certainly gaining a large slice of the market share now that pods are so popular.

I can see why some manufacturers would state that a higher level nicotine would be beneficial for some who are used to large quantities of vaper and want to use low volume devices. Yet they seem to forget a large segment of pod users were never big cloud makers who sub-ohm'd before trying pods.

In many cases the pod user already use(d) low watt, low nic devices and the pod is just more portable or convenient to carry. So to call for instance a Renova Zero a nic salt device is like calling a 22 revolver an assault weapon. Sure you can use it for that, but was that its true intent?

All that silly promotional stuff and markets getting all whipped into a frenzy over this weeks fashion will settle out in time while toodle puffers just carry on like it's still 2009. I enjoy all the modern advances as devices become more reliable, more durable and better performing. But when company X says their auto draw nic salt device is better because……

To me, it's how close it can duplicate the drag from a cigarette without quadrupling the amount of nicotine per puff that cigarette puts out. Nothing will ever duplicate an honest to goodness filtered cigarette made from a secret sauce of who knows what was laced into the Richmond Tobbacco, try as they may. Like digital photography trying to duplicate film, they've gotten pretty good at it but the old attage remains true: close but no cigars.

Yet the more they try the more we benefit.

 

[Northstar6]

I think everything has its place. There's no "one size fits all" solution for nicotine for me anymore...I like 12 to 18 mg freebase or less for days where I am frequently vaping, at home for example....20 to 35 mg salts for casual use, perhaps a day of running errands...50 mg salts are typically reserved for the work week and the short breaks that come with it [emoji5]

 

[Rossum]

Salts are what allow a device with the diminutive size and lack of power of a Juul to be effective.

Go back five years here, before Juul. There were countless stories of people who first tried vaping with various cig-a-like devices and failed to quit smoking until they got something substantially bigger. Some of those cig-a-likes used nic levels close to what's found in a Juul: 48mg/ml in an attempt to provide sufficient nic, but freebase is to harsh for most people at those levels.

If a person doesn't like salts, there's an easy solution: Don't use them. Personally, I vape freebase almost exclusively, but keep some higher strength salts around for occasions like trade shows where I know I won't be able to vape as much or as often as I usually do.

 

[GOMuniEsq]

I fail to see how "liking" it is relevant. Use whichever nic works best for your application.

A brief history of nicotine in the context of vaping.

In the old days when coils were small and cells were weak, we vaped low powered devices. It was often hard to get satisfaction out of them, so higher nic strengths were common. 24mg was the highest strength available because beyond that the peppery nic flavor became so harsh and overwhelming that most vapers could no longer enjoy their juice. This was the limiting factor.

As lithium ion technology improved, coils grew and high wattage vaping was born. More juice could be vaporized at once, allowing the use of low-strength juices that tasted good, while still delivering a solid nic hit due to the sheer volume of vapor.

Then Juul came along with an old fashioned low wattage device in a shiny modern form, using a radical new formulation of nicotine that didn't have the strong peppery taste at high concentrations. It had barely any taste at all, even at 50 or 60mg strength. It became immensely popular because their cheap and tiny devices could provide the same great satisfaction that was previous obtainable only with high wattage cloud chuckers, but they were unobtrusive and easy to use and carry around.

Then we learned how to copy Juul's formulation and use it in our own devices. We learned that the new nicotine was a chemical salt, ie. nicotine bonded to another molecule in a neutral form as found in nature, therefore salt nic. The traditional nic we renamed freebase since it was the nicotine molecule isolated by itself, and alkaline causing strong flavor.

Had salt nic existed from the beginning we probably never would have experienced the high-wattage craze, since vapers already would have been getting adequate satisfaction from their low-wattage devices. So it's accurate to say that salt nic is meant for users of cig-alikes and pods. Can it be used in larger devices at higher wattage? Sure, at reduced concentration, but freebase works just as well for those so there's not much point.

tl;dr Freebase nic tastes terrible at the strength required for use in small, convenient devices. Salt nic doesn't.

 

[Letitia]

I use salts at 8/9mg. The freebase combined with my citrus juices made it hard to get a smoother th without using additives or thicker creams. The salts give me more mixing options than freebase does. The two really aren't that different outside of th/smoothness. Still not quite sure why these salts vs freebase threads keep popping up. Just like pg/vg ratios, wire preference, resistance preferences it all just boils down to what works for the individual.

 

[John Phoenix]

A Marlboro red is 24 mg nic strength. Now, if people cannot get more nicotine than that in a cigarette.. why would they want it in an e-cig.. I just don't get that. At that point it becomes less about harm reduction and more about just getting you drugged up on nicotine. No one went from a 48 mg strength nicotine from a cigarette to a Juul - No One Ever because 48 mg cigarettes are never sold. Thats also the same reason ECF will not allow posts about nicotine over a certain strength. Juuls IMO are for those who just choose to be a nicotine junkie which is Not the point of an e-cig.

Mind you I'm not against one choosing to use nic salts even 48 mg.. thats your business.. I strongly object to the way it's advertised at least in the example shown above because it's misleading and lying.

 

[GOMuniEsq]

A Marlboro red is 24 mg nic strength. Now, if people cannot get more nicotine than that in a cigarette.. why would they want it in an e-cig.. I just don't get that. At that point it becomes less about harm reduction and more about just getting you drugged up on nicotine. No one went from a 48 mg strength nicotine from a cigarette to a Juul - No One Ever because 48 mg cigarettes are never sold. Thats also the same reason ECF will not allow posts about nicotine over a certain strength. Juuls IMO are for those who just choose to be a nicotine junkie which is Not the point of an e-cig.

Mind you I'm not against one choosing to use nic salts even 48 mg.. thats your business.. I strongly object to the way it's advertised at least in the example shown above because it's misleading and lying.

You can't compare nic absorption rates between cigs and vaping based on the labels on the packages. It doesn't work like that. Nobody gets 'drugged up' on nicotine because it's self-limiting. And ECF does not allow discussion of nic over 200mg because dummies were apparently hurting themselves.

 

[somdcomputerguy]

A Marlboro red is 24 mg nic strength.

Any unlit cigarette has a higher nic level than when it's lit. Mostly (maybe only?) because of the combustion. Most of the nic just 'burns away'.

 

[John Phoenix]

tl;dr Freebase nic tastes terrible at the strength required for use in small, convenient devices. Salt nic doesn't.

Although I liked your post I disagree with this statement.. or rather I cannot confirm it. I have never tried to vape nicotine so strong that I could actually taste it. I mix my own unflavored nic juice at 24 mg and I cannot taste it at all compared to the unflavored no nic juice I mix.

 

[GOMuniEsq]

Although I liked your post I disagree with this statement.. or rather I cannot confirm it. I have never tried to vape nicotine so strong that I could actually taste it. I mix my own unflavored nic juice at 24 mg and I cannot taste it at all compared to the unflavored no nic juice I mix.

You're quite exceptional! I can detect the peppery freebase nic at even a 3mg concentration. I enjoy that taste (in moderation) and still use freebase in my RTA for that reason.

 

[John Phoenix]

You can't compare nic absorption rates between cigs and vaping based on the labels on the packages. It doesn't work like that. Nobody gets 'drugged up' on nicotine because it's self-limiting. And ECF does not allow discussion of nic over 200mg because dummies were apparently hurting themselves.

I get drugged up on 24 mg nicotine. Have you ever done speed? I do, every time I vape heavily all day. I noticed this over 10 years ago when I was first on ECF and posted about it. Vaping nicotine can act as a stimulant that is many degrees stronger than smoking cigarettes. It can and will keep you awake at night like caffiene can. There is No way Ever with any rationality you can spin it that's gonna make me believe vaping 48 plus nicotine is not effecting you like a Drug because I KNOW IT Does. Additionally the legal definition of a drug is any substance you put into your body that change your body in any way. Lets not kid ourselves.. we all know nicotine is a drug.

 

[John Phoenix]

You're quite exceptional! I can detect the peppery freebase nic at even a 3mg concentration. I enjoy that taste (in moderation) and still use freebase in my RTA for that reason.

"Quite Exceptional". Thank you.. my wife thinks so LOL - Well I did smoke cigarettes for over 30 years as well as smoking a whole lot of other things.. my taste buds may not be in the best shape to taste the nicotine.. I'll grant you that.

 

[Electrodave]

I've been using salt nicotine exclusively in my DIY. It costs about 10% more than freebase. Whatever nic concentration you use, you will get a much smoother hit with salt nicotine vs freebase. I don't know of any other real benefit, but it's something that I appreciate.

 

[GOMuniEsq]

I get drugged up on 24 mg nicotine. Have you ever done speed? I do, every time I vape heavily all day. I noticed this over 10 years ago when I was first on ECF and posted about it. Vaping nicotine can act as a stimulant that is many degrees stronger than smoking cigarettes. It can and will keep you awake at night like caffiene can. There is No way Ever with any rationality you can spin it that's gonna make me believe vaping 48 plus nicotine is not effecting you like a Drug because I KNOW IT Does. Additionally the legal definition of a drug is any substance you put into your body that change your body in any way. Lets not kid ourselves.. we all know nicotine is a drug.

Person A who vapes 1mL per day of 50mg in tiny clouds and person B who vapes 10mL per day of 5mg in huge clouds will end up with the same dose of nic at the end of the day. You're making the same mistake that EU regulators did, being fooled by numbers that appear big.