Why no one is making 40A batteries?

[tFOrRESTee]

I am a battery idiot, but how come Sony, LG, SamSung, etc aren't making some real 40amp batteries instead of some batteries rewrapping others and falsely claim it's 40/50 or whatever amp continuous draw? Is it really that difficult to do that, or the current technology isn't capable of doing so? or the investment in such research and development yields little in return? But there are so many people have gone vaping and there is a market for it. When I started vaping back in Sep last year, I only saw one vaping store in my local area. Now I know there are at least 5 vapor shops within 20 mins of driving distance

How about the tobacco companies? Are they blind? They can't stop vaping so they may as well join it and since they have deep pocket so they can invest and produce better vaping gears, batteries, etc. This may be my wishful thinking though.

 

[Ryedan]

I am a battery idiot, but how come Sony, LG, SamSung, etc aren't making some real 40amp batteries instead of some batteries rewrapping others and falsely claim it's 40/50 or whatever amp continuous draw? Is it really that difficult to do that, or the current technology isn't capable of doing so? or the investment in such research and development yields little in return? But there are so many people have gone vaping and there is a market for it. When I started vaping back in Sep last year, I only saw one vaping store in my local area. Now I know there are at least 5 vapor shops within 20 mins of driving distance

Just my opinion; battery companies have better projects to spend R & D money on. Vaping is small potatoes compared to the automotive industry and I think automotive is currently driving (sorry, couldn't resist that one ) the latest battery development. I believe the biggest issue for those guys currently is getting more energy per pound out of batts so cars can go further on a charge, combined with doing it safely.

How about the tobacco companies? Are they blind? They can't stop vaping so they may as well join it and since they have deep pocket so they can invest and produce better vaping gears, batteries, etc. This may be my wishful thinking though.

So far, the tobacco companies are still mostly working the biggest part of the ecig market is which is cigalikes first and eGo class hardware second. I really don't think they are going to look at developing battery technology until ecig use is a lot higher and the payoff is there for them.

And that scenario might not be all that good for vaping.

 

[mcclintock]

To use that full current, you'd be looking at something like 2 minutes runtime. Not exactly a battery useful for anything else.

 

[zoiDman]

Do we need 40A Batteries?

What type of Built Needs a 40A Battery?

 

[Ryedan]

Do we need 40A Batteries?

What type of Built Needs a 40A Battery?

Well, from the Steam Engine battery drain calculator, a regulated PV at 81 watts with 90% board efficiency and a battery at 3V under load will draw 30A from the battery.

A mechanical mod at 0.14 ohms draws 30A and from the battery to deliver around 85-90 watts depending on voltage drop at the coil(s) at 4.2V from the batt no-load.

For people who want to vape higher than the limits current Li-ion cell technology supports, they have to either go with dual cell setups or run into the pulse discharge range of their batteries and IMO that's not a good idea.

 

[zoiDman]

Well, from the Steam Engine battery drain calculator, a regulated PV at 81 watts with 90% board efficiency and a battery at 3V under load will draw 30A from the battery.

A mechanical mod at 0.14 ohms draws 30A and from the battery to deliver around 85-90 watts depending on voltage drop at the coil(s) at 4.2V from the batt no-load.

For people who want to vape higher than the limits current Li-ion cell technology supports, they have to either go with dual cell setups or run into the pulse discharge range of their batteries and IMO that's not a good idea.

I'm just Wondering if there is Some Point where Enough Amps is Enough Amps.

.14 Ohms at around 90 Watts.

Man... Rats-a-Rot of Watts.

 

[Ryedan]

To use that full current, you'd be looking at something like 2 minutes runtime. Not exactly a battery useful for anything else.

Actually 5 minutes run time at 40 amp draw and 25000 mAh. So 56, 5 second puffs. Yes, not something I would consider useful.

OTOH, if the technology also improved on mAh, that would be a different story

 

[zoiDman]

Actually 5 minutes run time at 40 amp draw and 25000 mAh. So 56, 5 second puffs. Yes, not something I would consider useful.

OTOH, if the technology also improved on mAh, that would be a different story

I just see all this Stuff about Higher and Higher Amps on Batteries. And Mods putting out More and More Watts. And wonder how I ever Quit Smoking using an RN4081.

LOL

And got thru my first year Using a 510 with Cartos.

 

[Ryedan]

I'm just Wondering if there is Some Point where Enough Amps is Enough Amps.

.14 Ohms at around 90 Watts.

Man... Rats-a-Rot of Watts.

I hear ya zoiDman. I vape at 35'ish watts and that suits me fine. OTOH, there are people who like more power and that's fine. Most people vape 6-12 watts and that's fine too.

Max amps also means low internal cell resistance with our current technology and that helps batteries last longer per charge.

I try not to judge vapers, to each their own. As long as we're not smoking, I think it's all good.

 

[Ryedan]

And got thru my first year Using a 510 with Cartos.

Yup and I got through about my first year at about 8 watts max with the old eGo-C system and then with an upgrade to CE4's. That does not however work for everyone.

 

[tFOrRESTee]

So far, the tobacco companies are still mostly working the biggest part of the ecig market is which is cigalikes first and eGo class hardware second. I really don't think they are going to look at developing battery technology until ecig use is a lot higher and the payoff is there for them.

And that scenario might not be all that good for vaping.

I think one of the reasons that the tobacco companies are less interested in ecig market is because growing weeds has much higher profit margin, it's a low tech, low cost, and high return business and not much R&D needed, lol. In the bad old days, I just bought cigarettes, lit them up, and smoked my lungs away. But in vaping, there are so many things to learn to get a satisfying vape. Just making a good ejuice is like an art of work.

Anyway, having higher amp draw can give me peace of mind so I don't have to worry about if my batteries can handle the builds or the wattage output. I started from 1.5 ohm, straight down to .8, .7, .6, then .5, then .3 and now I am at .2, lol. Still experimenting what is best suit for me with different builds/wattage/atty/temperature on different DIY ejuice. So it will give me less things to worry about by having a high performance battery.

 

[Racehorse]

wonder how I ever Quit Smoking using an RN4081.

You WANTED to quit smoking. So did everyone else back then, and every day, I STILL meet people who know nothing about vaping forums, and they quit smoking using a Blu or something.

I used a 510 carto tonight. It tasted good. I like them every once in a while......I think it's the draw that I like, not so much the flavor. I understand why some people still love cartos...it's the perfect draw for me. I dislike "breezy" airy stuff.

Vape gear tech has surpassed battery technology, or at least, in the consumer area. We are small fry.

 

[Racehorse]

I personally think ANY technology from ANY manufacturer, if it gets people to put down the cigarette, is good ...... and good for vaping.

Just like it doesn't matter what exercize is better as long as you do it and do it regularly. low tech, high tech, who cares. Just commit to it.

I vape at 6-9 watts, and that is after almost 3 years.

I really don't see vaping higher watts, for ME, as "graduating" to anything. Everyone is different. I'm not the least bit embarrassed lugging my reo mini 14500 or my ego batts anywhere, even to a vaping convention. Because I'm just trying to make myself happy. Hopefully that is what everyone is doing anyway.

 

[Froth]

I'll chime in from the other side of the group, pretty much all of my vaping for the last year has been at 100W or more with 18650 batteries and mech mods.

Personally I think the main issue with making a 40A CDR battery is the reliability and consistency in which the average user is able to measure resistance below 0.15 ohms, since there is such a huge difference between 0.10 and 0.14 ohms, that's a 12A difference for a 0.04 change in resistance! Before a 40A battery is really considered "safe" at 40A, there would need to be a more accurate way to measure resistances that would end up with builds in the 35A-40A range. I don't like to admit it, but every time I meter out a build that is .09-.14 on my little black box I do know I'm taking a calculated risk and so is pretty much everyone else. They work for a starting point but if we're talking getting into 40A CDR batteires and nearly 200W mechanical vaping we're going to need a much more accurate measuring device available to the masses.

 

[WattWick]

The batteries available to us is the cutting edge of consumer battery technology. If someone could make a better battery they would.

There are other li-ion batteries with much higher output currents. But they're not considered safe for our use. We use the best available safe(ish) batteries - not the most powerful batteries.

You don't want one of these going thermal on you in an enclosed metal tube:

 

[edyle]

I am a battery idiot, but how come Sony, LG, SamSung, etc aren't making some real 40amp batteries instead of some batteries rewrapping others and falsely claim it's 40/50 or whatever amp continuous draw? Is it really that difficult to do that, or the current technology isn't capable of doing so? or the investment in such research and development yields little in return? But there are so many people have gone vaping and there is a market for it. When I started vaping back in Sep last year, I only saw one vaping store in my local area. Now I know there are at least 5 vapor shops within 20 mins of driving distance

How about the tobacco companies? Are they blind? They can't stop vaping so they may as well join it and since they have deep pocket so they can invest and produce better vaping gears, batteries, etc. This may be my wishful thinking though.

For the same reason they aren't making 4000 amp batteries.

A lot of people who vape do vape on 1000 mah eGo batteries. It's not a matter of vaping requiring 40 amp batteries as you seem to imply.

On the contrary, instead of requiring more powerfull batteries, the industry is merely using multiple batteries to power the high powered mods such as the 100, 150 and 260 watt mods.

 

[edyle]

The batteries available to us is the cutting edge of consumer battery technology. If someone could make a better battery they would.

There are other li-ion batteries with much higher output currents. But they're not considered safe for our use. We use the best available safe(ish) batteries - not the most powerful batteries.

You don't want one of these going thermal on you in an enclosed metal tube:

That's something a lot of people do not understand about what a battery is.

A one ounce, 500mah, 4vdc, 10amp max, dry cell might be considered a consumer grade electronics battery.
A one ounce, 50,000, 4vdc, 1000amp, dry cell might be considered an explosive, or at least a safety hazard in the same way that high pressure gas canister would be considered an explosive or safety hazard.

 

[zoiDman]

...

Vape gear tech has surpassed battery technology, or at least, in the consumer area. ...

Yeah... Some parts of the e-Cigarette market is kinda Unusual.

Because Most things that run on Batteries are Designed for a given Amp Draw. And have Built in Protection if the Amps Exceed a limit.

But a Mech Mod is just a Battery Holder with a means to make a Electrical Circuit complete. It is up to the User to decide what Amps are drawn from the Battery via what type of Build they attach to a Mech Mod.

 

[Vapenstein]

You WANTED to quit smoking.

well, kind of. In addition to those of us who wanted to make a positive change, the effect of the insurance lobby's effort to demonize tobacco use has been profound over the last two decades. They spread a lot of money around, globally, turning society's attitude toward tobacco their way. Don't kid yourself, going from a world where men wore hats and smoked a pipe or cigar to a world where you almost never see someone smoking on television took a concerted, costly effort over years. It's all about the money.

 

[Thrasher]

I just see all this Stuff about Higher and Higher Amps on Batteries. And Mods putting out More and More Watts. And wonder how I ever Quit Smoking using an RN4081.

LOL

And got thru my first year Using a 510 with Cartos.

Its a fad, started with sub ohm and then the whole pinoy cloud chasing thing on you tube started, remember that? Then there really was nowhere for chinese mods and tanks to go but up to chase down those dollars too. I dont know how they did it, but somehow they fooled the newer crowd into believing 50+ W is still to low. So please buy our new 100+w.

Suddenly here we are full circle and joyetech released a mechanical without regulation. And people are actually liking it, so soon other's will follow that lead.

The 100w crowd will slowly become a niche, just like all vaping circles do. And china's focus will switch gears again.

The mechanical was dead they said - long live the mechanical.......