Why Vapers are getting a BAD NAME.

[Cloud Pump]

Does it require for something to be harmful in order for it to infringe on a person's right to their own personal space? Your freedom ends where my nose begins. I don't like strong perfume. I hate it when people have overly loud conversations in public. Bad breath or poor hygiene aren't illegal. Not much I can do about any of these except to politely inform them of my issue.

As Vapers we are at a serious disadvantage to begin with. We're seen as the same as smokers. The media and ptb are trying to demonise it. I think we just have to change things one person at a time. Take time to educate those who will listen and find a way to respect those who don't.

 

[Jman8]

Why do you think that Because No One Confronted you that everything is Honkey Dory?

Because I was there.

Again, your same logic can be applied to outdoors, and arguably would be easier to apply to outdoors.

Most of the People I know, Myself Included, aren't Going to make a Scene in a Fast Food Restaurant over something they Don't Like. They are just going to go Home, Eat the Meat By-Product Burger, and then Fire of an e-Mail to a Corporate Headquarters.

Great, I'll still be vaping indoors and still not be noticed most of the time, while I vape openly.

If your Only Benchmark to People's Disapproval of something you do in Public is a Running Total of How Many Times you are Confronted, I think you are Not Seeing the Entire Picture.

Then arguably everything I'm doing in public, including breathing, is open game. Perhaps when vaping and breathing appear like they are less open game, I'll change. I feel confident I can continue vaping indoors, and not so confident that I could light up a smoke in any of these same places. Feeling pretty confident that no one will be waiting hours to express disapproval, even while theoretically they could be treated the same.

Hope my farts haven't been negatively impacting the free market. All those negative letters and people not returning cause of l'il ol' me.

 

[Jman8]

Does it require for something to be harmful in order for it to infringe on a person's right to their own personal space? Your freedom ends where my nose begins.

If this is the criteria, I'm passing the indoors vaping tests with flying colors.

If it instead begins where the far reaches of your sense of smell extends, then even if I gave up vaping, I'd never pass the test. I'd also wonder how you make it through a park on the 4th of July, or most summer days.

Today, I was vaping outdoors in a park (don't tell anyone), while disc golfing, and saw two guys with big old devices, unlike my V2 with clearo. I would say they exhaled about 5 times the vapor I normally do, and I think I exhale a decent amount. Asked them about the flavor, chatted for all of 10 seconds on vaping, and thought later, that would make me think differently about indoor vaping if I had that. But not to the degree of never ever doing it indoors, and as long as I have V2 like device, then really aren't any places I'm currently aware of where it is an inherent problem. There are inherent situations, just as there are outdoors at times. But not inherent places, and as I find hospitals to be one of the better, inherent places, it really is challenging for me to consider those 'other' particular places that seem to be on tip of some people's mind when this sort of thread is open for discussion.

Please do let me know when you come up with those inherent places where indoor vaping is, without a doubt, a problem.

 

[zoiDman]

Because I was there.

Again, your same logic can be applied to outdoors, and arguably would be easier to apply to outdoors.



Great, I'll still be vaping indoors and still not be noticed most of the time, while I vape openly.



Then arguably everything I'm doing in public, including breathing, is open game. Perhaps when vaping and breathing appear like they are less open game, I'll change. I feel confident I can continue vaping indoors, and not so confident that I could light up a smoke in any of these same places. Feeling pretty confident that no one will be waiting hours to express disapproval, even while theoretically they could be treated the same.

Hope my farts haven't been negatively impacting the free market. All those negative letters and people not returning cause of l'il ol' me.

Just so I'm Clear on all this.

All this is Because you didn't Want to go 5 Minutes without Taking a Hit while waiting for your Burger at a Fast Food Restaurant?

 

[Jman8]

Just so I'm Clear on all this.

All this is Because you didn't Want to go 5 Minutes without Taking a Hit while waiting for your Burger at a Fast Food Restaurant?

All this is because I am comfortable vaping indoors.

I could wait 6 years to vape if I WANTED to.

Oh, and it wasn't my burger. I don't care much for BK.

 

[zoiDman]

All this is because I am comfortable vaping indoors.

I could wait 6 years to vape if I WANTED to.

Oh, and it wasn't my burger. I don't care much for BK.

Well I'm Glad you are Comfortable.

Next time you are going to have to wait 5 Minutes or so in a Business, why don't you Try and do what Many here have Repeatedly and Respectful Asked you to do. And that is to Ask the Owner of the Business if He/She is Comfortable with You Vaping in His/Her Business.

It seems like Such a Small thing to Ask.

 

[aceswired]

I'm just always surprised at the lengths which people will go do defend their vaping in enclosed, public areas. I guess for me, it shows a terrible lack of self-control and character that one can't wait. Maybe I expect too much of people. But I control my habit/hobby, it doesn't control me. Wish everyone saw it the same way, but I guess that's never going to happen.

 

[sonicdsl]

Settle down in here please.

 

[Jman8]

Well I'm Glad you are Comfortable.

I'm glad you are glad.

Next time you are going to have to wait 5 Minutes or so in a Business, why don't you Try and do what Many here have Repeatedly and Respectful Asked you to do. And that is to Ask the Owner of the Business if He/She is Comfortable with You Vaping in His/Her Business.

It seems like Such a Small thing to Ask.

I have asked some owners of businesses, and do not always. Do you always ask land manger / owner when outdoors?
Not always a small thing to ask as not always conducive to get their attention in places.

Also is a non issue in many places, similar to outdoors. In a hospital is great example. No one around, easy decision. Few people around, relatively easy decision to vape openly. Many people all around, easy to wait a few minutes to find place where there are few people or no people around. Which is currently true for all places I currently vape. Including outdoors.

I'm yet to blow vapor in any person's face except for when I'm outdoors and the wind takes it from my space 35 feet away to where another person is getting the last remnants of my dispersing vapor.

 

[Bobbilly]

I don't see why you would ask? Actually I so because we are conditioned to be wary of our smoking

 

[zoiDman]

...

I have asked some owners of businesses, and do not always. Do you always ask land manger / owner when outdoors?
Not always a small thing to ask as not always conducive to get their attention in places.

Also is a non issue in many places, similar to outdoors. In a hospital is great example. No one around, easy decision. Few people around, relatively easy decision to vape openly. Many people all around, easy to wait a few minutes to find place where there are few people or no people around. Which is currently true for all places I currently vape. Including outdoors.

I'm yet to blow vapor in any person's face except for when I'm outdoors and the wind takes it from my space 35 feet away to where another person is getting the last remnants of my dispersing vapor.

Why Didn't you just ask the Manager of Burger King if it was ok to Vape?

And why do you Always try to Shift the Conversation to Vaping Outdoors? Was this an Outdoor Burger King?

 

[zoiDman]

I'm just always surprised at the lengths which people will go do defend their vaping in enclosed, public areas. I guess for me, it shows a terrible lack of self-control and character that one can't wait. Maybe I expect too much of people. But I control my habit/hobby, it doesn't control me. Wish everyone saw it the same way, but I guess that's never going to happen.

Yes... In Many Ways it is Kinda Sad.

Sometimes I read things, and I wonder just how much a Person Has to Vape? And how long they can Go without taking a hit?

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/law-e-cigarette/502253-vaping-gas-station.html

 

[chellemmm]

Outdoors is OUTSIDE and Indoors is INSIDE. d'uh.



If I saw you vaping in BK or McDonalds, I would think you were rude and inconsiderate. AND I am a vaper. Imagine what the great uninformed world of non-vapers would think.
Just because no one complained to your face doesn't mean they didn't form a negative opinion of you.

 

[Bobbilly]

Outdoors is OUTSIDE and Indoors is INSIDE. d'uh.

View attachment 339879

If I saw you vaping in BK or McDonalds, I would think you were rude and inconsiderate. AND I am a vaper. Imagine what the great uninformed world of non-vapers would think.
Just because no one complained to your face doesn't mean they didn't form a negative opinion of you.

But then again a smoker might come up to you and say " hey is that one of those vapor things how does that work? Where so I get one?

 

[Jman8]

Why Didn't you just ask the Manager of Burger King if it was ok to Vape?

Wasn't conducive to the moment. This is third or fourth time I vaped in a restaurant in 2014. The other times, I did ask staff and was granted the right to vape indoors in their establishment. Sometimes I choose not to ask. For various reasons, I may not ask.

Wish to note, yet again, that I am batting 1.000 in my experience of vaping indoors. I realize that you and a number of other vapers wish I never would, but that currently doesn't impact me, and just makes for great discussion on vaping forum, as I see your side of the argument as defeatist and giving into shame. You and I know this isn't first time we've had this little talk. You constantly trying to guilt/shame me into considering a different path, me constantly standing up for 'vape everywhere' reasoning, and me batting a 1.000 in doing so, all in the name of respectful vaping. You constantly downplaying the idea that respectful vaping is possible indoors.

And why do you Always try to Shift the Conversation to Vaping Outdoors?

Because as this is a hot button political topic, I feel it is relevant. All the reasons against and questions you have for vaping indoors, I think do apply to outdoors vaping. I think it needs to be thrown back at you for you to consider what you are actually getting across. I notice you dodge those questions often, and yet keep asking away at me, keep hoping I'll consider the shame aspect you keep driving at.

I'm pretty sure you realize that here in 2014, we now have cities that have passed local ordinances that ban outdoor vaping in certain parts. I do actually think your side of the debate is partially responsible for that. While your side loves to conjure up the idea that my indoor respectful vaping, where I'm batting 1.000 is the side of the debate that is causing all these bans, everywhere.

I honestly believe I am fighting for what is good and reasonable on this tangent and being truthful in my responses to your incessant questions that are leading, if not condescending. So, in an attempt to lead you to what I see as inevitable outcome of your position, I am compelled to make the rational point which amounts to asking you about how you handle vaping outdoors currently, given your position on vaping indoors.

 

[Jman8]

If I saw you vaping in BK or McDonalds, I would think you were rude and inconsiderate. AND I am a vaper.

And I ask you to be very clear, precise on why you think it rude and inconsiderate?

Imagine what the great uninformed world of non-vapers would think.

I don't have to imagine it, when I experience it. Is like me saying, imagine what non-vapers would think of you vaping outdoors. Please share that experience from your perspective, taking into account that people may not be sharing with you directly what they are thinking, and some bizarre assumption that everyone around you despises that you are daring to vape, outdoors.

Just because no one complained to your face doesn't mean they didn't form a negative opinion of you.

Also doesn't mean they didn't form a positive opinion of what respectful indoor vaping looks like.

 

[wv2win]

........................

And why do you Always try to Shift the Conversation to Vaping Outdoors? Was this an Outdoor Burger King?

Maybe because when you support vaping bans that ban vaping where smoking isn't permitted, as you do, then you also support vaping bans outdoors. There are many outdoor areas where smoking is banned.

 

[wv2win]

........................

I honestly believe I am fighting for what is good and reasonable on this tangent and being truthful in my responses to your incessant questions that are leading, if not condescending. So, in an attempt to lead you to what I see as inevitable outcome of your position, I am compelled to make the rational point which amounts to asking you about how you handle vaping outdoors currently, given your position on vaping indoors.

Well stated, Jman and incisively observant on your part. Using questions to misdirect others away from the fallacy of a position, instead of simply answering a counter argument directly, highlights the weakness of their position .

 

[3mg Meniere]

Don't population demographics have something to do with it? I recently saw at ECF indications that LDS culture has made a decision that vaping is not acceptable. I asked for confirmation in another forum, and received it. It is an APPEARANCE of evil. Since LDS tend to impose their behavioral standards on non-LDS around them, one might tend to see more problems in areas where LDS culture is stronger.

 

[zoiDman]

Maybe because when you support vaping bans that ban vaping where smoking isn't permitted, as you do, then you also support vaping bans outdoors. There are many outdoor areas where smoking is banned.

If you can say one thing about wv2win, it is that he is Consistent.

Because if he reads something that he Does Not agree with, instead of Contributing to the Thread, he will Attack the Poster for being in Favor of Bans. Or Out Right Accuse people of being an ANTZ.

And once again, there is an Attempt to Shift the Conversation to Outdoor Bans.