Will they just regulate E-juice or will they regulate PVs as well?

[sonicdsl]

I'd sY, from my experience, that 9 out of ten suppliers are comets crap. They may not be shady, but they are hacks. Likely hacks with no knowledge of the chemistry involved or inhalation grade quality control. It is only a matter of time before someone accidentally ships a dangerous mixture. Personally, I'd be a bit more comfortable with some level of regulation standards put in place. Weeding out 80% of current suppliers would help safety and quality.


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That's pretty extreme! How about, instead, establishing standards in addition to existing consumer product safety standards by which they must abide (similar to the food industry)? This way the suppliers would have to truthfully state ingredients on the label, and adhere to minimum product and manufacturing standards.

Might be a lot of honest workers in that arbitrary 80% you came up with who already are/would be happy to be in compliance.

 

[swampergene]

The only problem with product standards is that the govt will be the ones managing them, and they will be the perfect place to hide taxes in the form of "regulatory fees". Not that I don't agree with product standards, I just don't trust the feds at all. Used to be a day when industry/trade groups could manage this sorta thing, keeping the politics out of it.

 

[stevegmu]

I don't know of any ingestible product that isn't regulated...

 

[Tadow Johnson]

I wanted to let everyone know that Cinder Ella at Halo has all but admitted that Halo's e-liquid does in fact contain Ethanol, Polyethylene Glycol (PEG 400), Triacetin, and Benzene. I have been demanding to know this information for some time for the health and safety of Halo users but Cinder Ella and Halo continue to divert, deflect, give non answers and close threads when users directly ask these serious questions. Here is a link to the most recent Halo thread where I have directly asked Halo if these types of 'proprietary' ingredients are lurking in the 'Natural & Artificial' Flavoring' ingredients. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/halo/547695-pg-vg.html?highlight=halo

There will eventually be over reaching regulations because certain companies refuse to be transparent with customers and self regulate. I really don't want to ingest anything potentially unhealthy but some companies don't care at all.

 

[blueGrassTubb]

Stop voting for Republicans and Democrats.

They will very likely make online ejuice sales ILLEGAL, and tax the hell out of it at B&M stores. Pols and bureaucrats in suits at places like the FDA will NOT want to miss out on what they see as an excuse to steal more of our money and "guide" the market with what they think is best rather than what WE THE CUSTOMERS IN THIS SPACE this is best for ourselves. They are far more likely to agree with the NYT portrayal of what vaping is rather than anything that aligns with reality.

What we're seeing in this space (electronic cigarettes) is extremely innovative work driven by THE FREE MARKET and the principles that dictate it. Bad juice companies are going out of business, they are changing their practices based on what customers want (transparency of ingredients, etc), MODs are insanely innovative. It's a BOOM in a brand new economic space. Jobs are being created all the time (we've had 5 shops open locally in the last 18 months in my modest sized city). And all of it is being done WITHOUT A SINGLE HINT OF "HELP" FROM THE GOVERNMENT. And we should do everything we can to keep it that way. Government won't do anything but strangle our options. I wouldn't be surprised if, in 10 years, we can only get tobacco flavors of ejuice so as to PROTECT THE CHILDREN!!!!!!111!!

I can guarantee you that the second government decides to regulate the industry, EVERYTHING THEY DO WILL STOP THE INNOVATION and serve as a noose on this economic space. They will kill it.

 

[blueGrassTubb]

There will eventually be over reaching regulations because certain companies refuse to be transparent with customers and self regulate. I really don't want to ingest anything potentially unhealthy but some companies don't care at all.

Then don't buy from companies that don't disclose information to your satisfaction. It's very simple. No one is forcing you to buy from a particular company.

We all have the power to make the economic space we desire WITHOUT GOVERNMENT COERCION. We just have to act on our principles and not allow others to claim responsibility of making these important decisions for us.

 

[Tadow Johnson]

@ blueGrassYubb

I generally agree with you (+1 on being an Independent). I also know, as an example, that Benzene has a history as a former ingredient in Soda Pop and Bubble Gum etc. as well as in Cigarettes and people love(d) it! Several very long winded arguments about big brother Govt, greed and fear in free markets, human health etc. can be made...

 

[jimivapr]

Then don't buy from companies that don't disclose information to your satisfaction. It's very simple. No one is forcing you to buy from a particular company.

We all have the power to make the economic space we desire WITHOUT GOVERNMENT COERCION. We just have to act on our principles and not allow others to claim responsibility of making these important decisions for us.

I'm not sure ANY juice provider discloses info to my satisfaction. Actually, most don't disclose any info at all! I'm also pretty sure I don't feel any government 'coercion' at all... don't know what that means. What I do know is that I fly on planes, drive cars, drink water, eat at restraunts, buy vegetables, put money in the bank. invest in stocks, go to the doctor, brush my teeth, buy a house, ALL with government regulations! And, mostly, they work! You should try living in another country where these regs don't exist (my case kenya), god help you! There's simply NO way way to make a 'responsible' decision without information... regulation provides this information.... don't be naive. Lack of regulation helps the few who own these industries, lack of regulation does not help consumers... at all.


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[Talyon]

I don't know of any ingestible product that isn't regulated...

Lipozene, NOT approved by the FDA, but have sold over 20,000,000 bottles. I'm sure there's plenty more consumable products not yet regulated.

If required ill google......

 

[stevegmu]

Lipozene, NOT approved by the FDA, but have sold over 20,000,000 bottles. I'm sure there's plenty more consumable products not yet regulated.

If required ill google......

Lipozene falls under the category of dietary supplement- all of which are regulated by the FDA.

Dietary Supplements

 

[Fulgurant]

There will be regulations concerning age, safety caps, ingredient lists, possibly be a 36mg cap on nic... that's about it. No bans, other than state or local prohibitions concerning where vaping may not be allowed...

I sure wish I could share your confidence.

 

[stevegmu]

I sure wish I could share your confidence.

When it comes down to it, cooler heads will prevail. Nic and pvs won't be banned; vaping won't go unregulated. Something in the middle will happen- maybe a few $ per 30ml will be added to the cost of e-juice to meet the requirements.

One has to look at bills that have become enacted, rather than proposals. Not a lot of legislation makes it through committees to law...

 

[Bob Chill]

As said numerous times, it's the nic. There's the choke for the whole industry. It will be taxed and anyone selling it will be required to have special and expensive licensing.

What we need to be very wary of is the math. We all know nic is absorbed differently and the equivalent 1mg of nic in a smoke does not equal 1mg of liquid equivalent. The whole marketing thing of njoy being = to 2 packs of smokes is totally F'd up. IF the gov does the same math it will get ugly.

Flavors aren't nearly as worrisome. Unflavored will surely be allowed. It's easy to mix your own with a little practice. Flavors are widely available and are multi use so they are never going away. I think banning various flavors is low probability anyways but if they are then a workaround is stupid simple.

The Gov will likely try to have the most clear and bulletproof reg package they can. They don't want to end up in endless court battles like what happened in 09. Having a clear reg package will require concessions in our favor.

I almost envision juice shops becoming similar to beer and wine stores. The product is produced by licensed small/medium/large mixers with central locations and then shipped across the country (and taxed along the way). There will be shelves of bottled juice to choose from just like beer and wine stores. Vendor reps will be in there offering free samples of their latest and greatest just like beer and wine reps.

Then there will be the local microbrew juice shops that mix in house. They won't be prolific but there will be a successful business model for those that are good at it and can establish a loyal following within their community. May even be a cool place to hang out if indoor vaping is allowed (that's a whole different discussion).

I'm not as freaked out as many though because I invested in a carefully stored 5+ year supply of high quality nic and mix my own. I'm not taking any chances. Our Gov has a way with knee jerk over regulation and this industry is pretty ripe for it.

One thing is absolutely certain. The cost of juice is going up. Probably way up. There is no way around that.

 

[patkin]

The problem is "they." Feds will control via a long approval process with possible denial for hardware produced since 2009 as well as tax and/or ban net sales. But, that doesn't say local govts won't more heavily regulate, tax or ban either sale or net sales. So "they" can depend on where you live.

 

[LDS714]

I'd sY, from my experience, that 9 out of ten suppliers are comets crap. They may not be shady, but they are hacks. Likely hacks with no knowledge of the chemistry involved or inhalation grade quality control. It is only a matter of time before someone accidentally ships a dangerous mixture. Personally, I'd be a bit more comfortable with some level of regulation standards put in place. Weeding out 80% of current suppliers would help safety and quality.


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As much as I hate to agree, you definitely have a valid point.

My favored local vendor actually uses an experienced, degreed chemist to formulate and test his recipes. Evidently he's found some interesting interactions when mixing seemingly harmless flavorings.

 

[Bob Chill]

The problem is "they." Feds will control via a long approval process with possible denial for hardware produced since 2009 as well as tax and/or ban net sales. But, that doesn't say local govts won't more heavily regulate, tax or ban either sale or net sales. So "they" can depend on where you live.

Great point. State laws will definitely vary. There will be winners and losers there.

One thing that is probably in our favor is that the industry has some decent roots. It's not a shadow industry any more. Vaping is become mainstream so it will require a lighter tread than just squashing a small industry that nobody knows anything about.

I see people vaping in their cars on my commute now all the time. And outside of restaurants and walking down the street. When I jumped in a year ago it was pretty rare in my area to see people vaping. Now it's becoming commonplace. The more the merrier. Power in #'s.

The sad thing is that those with the pens surely know people close to them who are greatly benefiting from vaping vs smoking. But it isn't about health at all. Typical screwed up agendas are something the US is really good at.

 

[Talyon]

Lipozene falls under the category of dietary supplement- all of which are regulated by the FDA.

Dietary Supplements

The commercials up here for Lipozene state in very small print at bottom of AD, not yet approved by the FDA, same boat as ecigs and my point. I've even taped them and paused so I could read it.

I agree they are under the FDA, but are currently not approved by the FDA. As I'm sure many other things are as well.