your opinion on e-cig use by minors on Youtube

[John Phoenix]

Reply to this post here http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...igs-youtube-january-2012-a-5.html#post5153297

crippledbazooka said on YouTube,

flagged, thumbs downed, link posted to electronic cigarette forum, supplier notified. Minor abusing e-cigarette products.

watch?v=DlSDqUkFvYk&feature=re.lated posted 2 months ago at 0:23 you say you were arrested for minor possesion of tobacco, you are not 21.

This teen states first that he needs these e-cigs for help with quitting smoking. You do not know who ordered this product.

This product may have been ordered for this teen by an adult. You were wrong to notify the seller without any facts.

This teen is Using the product, not abusing it. It is not illegal for this teen to use any tobacco or e-cig in the privacy of his own home. He was only arrested for having a tobacco product in public.

I believe your vendetta is one led by hate and anger and not facts. You show no caring for this teen at all.

 

[azzaman]

What's interesting is that the vote count is pretty much 50/50.

**** This has changed somewhat. And the common thought is that the video should be taken down.

 

[John Phoenix]

Reply to this new post: http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...igs-youtube-january-2012-a-6.html#post5160368

crippledbazooka said,

thumbs downed, flagged, link posted to electronic cigarette forum, supplier notified. minor abusing e-cigarette products.

STOP LYING !

Stop notifying the supplier. You have no facts. This is misleading and is the same as lying. This kid said he had been smoking for the past two years, so now he wants to try a safer alternative. Sure he's young but he needs e-cigs as much as you do. His parents could have bought this for him.. and if it was bought online with a credit card, they probably did - there is no way this kid can get a credit card.

This kid is not breaking ANY law vaping in his own home. This teen is Not abusing an e-cig he is using one.

You really making yourself look like an ANTI

A message to Teen Vapers:

Teen smokers and vapers. If you are smoking with your parents permission and they bought you the e-cig, because we know you cannot get a credit card, then state that you are doing this with your parents permission up front. make that the first thing you say. Be clear that you are choosing to use an e-cig because you need it for your health to get away from smoking. Be clear that you have your parents permission to use an e-cig. This way you can fight these people who want to remove your videos.

 

[Keeno]

The ONLY proper way that a child's addiction issue should be addressed is through family therapy coupled with a good drug treatment program.....NOT to encourage continued use no matter what the delivery system. If the kid is using at this age their is more going on in his/her life that needs addressed. If the goal is to get children off smokes these treatments should be federally funded but then we"re talking big money and that "conviction" seems to wane when it starts coming out of ones own pocket.

EDIT: Is that a Ytube?? If so it needs pulled if minors have the ability to view it. Adults should see it as it should open some eyes making more aware or watch it with their child and discuss.

 

[Mac]

IMO it's just giving our enemies something to use against us. Bad idea. I get it that kids are going to do it anyway. (just like drinking and smoking.) But at least they make an effort to hide those things and neither of those products are in any danger of being banned. I voted flag and taken down. JMHO

 

[Keeno]

Just remember the most important variable in all this is the "kids"...

 

[Stifle]

Simple..

I voted for them to be taken down. If I see one and I can verify the person is under 18 I will flag it and report it everywhere I can.

Is vaping probably better than smoking for them? I think so.

But, should anyone under 18 be smoking? No.

Should anyone under 18 be vaping? No.

These are adult products..lets keep it this way. I know the argument is that this is a safer alternative...but with the abundance of flavors, the line for people who are opposed to vaping is too thin and they could easily say these are marketed to kids if this is allowed to continue. Help your community, if they want to vape..go for it. If they want to show themselves vaping? Absolutely not.

 

[John Phoenix]

The ONLY proper way that a child's addiction issue should be addressed is through family therapy coupled with a good drug treatment program.....NOT to encourage continued use no matter what the delivery system. If the kid is using at this age their is more going on in his/her life that needs addressed. If the goal is to get children off smokes these treatments should be federally funded but then we"re talking big money and that "conviction" seems to wane when it starts coming out of ones own pocket.

EDIT: Is that a Ytube?? If so it needs pulled if minors have the ability to view it. Adults should see it as it should open some eyes making more aware or watch it with their child and discuss.

That might work if we lived in the world of Ozzy and Harriet but it's not a realistic solution today. Sometimes the parents don't care if the teen smokes. They maintain their teen is old enough to weigh the risks and if they want to smoke, they let them.

Encouraging use of e-cigs is no where near the same as encouraging the use of cigarettes.

Everyone wants to inject their personal views into this based on how they would treat their own kids. You cannot force your value system on all teens everywhere.

There are going to be teens you cannot talk out of smoking. There are going to be teens who's parents allow them to smoke.

There is never going to be a free or federally funded program to get kids off cigarettes and even if there were it would FAIL because almost Nothing works to get you off cigarettes - the Government would have to use E-cigs as e-cigs ARE the most effective.

family therapy coupled with a good drug treatment program.

Oh come on.. if this worked we would have all gotten off cigarettes years ago and would never have needed e-cigs. It simply doesn't work. E-cigs are the teen smokers best choice to help them quit.

 

[azzaman]

"That might work if we lived in the world of Ozzy and Harriet but it's not a realistic solution today. " hahahaha, that made me laugh, had a few tears.

Come on John, you still arguing this thing?

 

[Uma]

Gosh, if the kid is vaping to quit smoking, and is helping other kids to quit smoking by switching to vaping, then I vote to leave the videos up. The kids won't listen to us adults (obviously or they wouldn't have started smoking in the first place), but they will listen to their peers.

 

[azzaman]

Most people see the peer influence will spread to teen - non nicotine users, and the age limit for the products applies, so why not to youtube?

 

[JD4x4]

Sorry to disappoint you John, but I did in fact read your link/other thread. One of the best of the few good points in it is the reminder that parents need to be even more of a harda** about sugar, excess fat, and caffeine.

However, when you openly praise (on his YouTube post at the same time you admonish a negative adult comment) a teens' video which makes absolutely no reference to him vaping because he's hopelessly addicted and trying to better himself, as opposed to him likely doing it because he thinks it's 'awesome' (his words) and clearly wants peers to know that he himself is awesome, you do absolutely no one any good service whatsoever.

I might get behind a kid posting his/her story of being able to stop using tobacco after several years and showing how it's helping them taper down to 0mg nicotine, but I'm sorry.. rampant posting of vids by teens of how cool it is to vape is just not a benefit to anything or anyone.

Strategies for taking and keeping a kid off of tobacco once they might have begun, or -possibly- responsible ways to introduce vaping rather than tobacco (as an absolute last resort) are something entirely different, and certainly not appropriate for videos that aren't clearly to that end. If you have to justify that a negative comment by someone is bad because they 'just don't know' the kids situation, then the vid certainly isn't clear enough to be promoting the great good you think it's accomplishing.

My previous comments and opinion about parental and adult responsibility still stand.

 

[sherid]

I am more offended by moral outrageousness and censorship than I am by teens posting videos of them vaping. Perhaps those of you who are so offended are out of touch with teen thinking. If you shout NO, then the very act you are prohibiting becomes even more enticing. Teens start smoking because it annoys self righteous authority figures and satisfies their strongest urges to rebel. Have you seen some of the videos teens post on You Tube? The vaping ones are the least of worries about what they do for fun and kicks. Censoring such videos makes the problem, if there is one, much more complex.

 

[azzaman]

In response to the post above, it is the moral obligation of large corporations to enforce age restricted material. Drugs such as nicotine fall into this category.

 

[sherid]

The film and entertainment industry, of which YouTube seems to loosely fall under, does not generally support censorship. I recall Tom Sawyer smoking in both the movie and the novel. Should it be banned? Some people feel that movies and tv shows with smoking in them should be given R ratings or, as the anti-smokers really wish, ban smoking scenes altogether. That would eliminate classic movies and tv shows like I Love Lucy. Not long ago, a radical airbrushed Winston Churchhill's trademark cigar from a photo in his own museum. Do you support this? Censorship has an ugly past with roots in NAZI Germany and Russia. Is that where you want to see us head? All of the calls for censorship within the entertainment industry use the banner call that it is "for the children" Is it? Censoring behavior does not eliminate behavior. It in fact encourages what the censors hope to eliminate in a large segment of the adult and teen population. I believe it is misguided censorship that should end rather than teens playing cool on the internet. I would prefer that others did not define for me what moral obligations are. I can define my own, and meanwhile, I still believe that we have the right to free speech even when it offends us.

 

[JD4x4]

Adults have always been out of touch with youth according to youth.
Youth have not gained the experience and wisdom of adults according to adults.

It's true that the environment around us changes from generation to generation, but humans generally only change physiologically a very small amount.

Cherish youth, but trust old age. - Pueblo tribal saying

You cannot always see the path that brought you here unless you sometimes turn around and look for your footprints.
You cannot always see the path ahead unless you sometimes get on someone else's shoulders. - JD4x4

And lastly, but most importantly ...
Listen, or your tongue will make you deaf. - Tribe Unknown



btw, I highly recommend seeing the movie 'Idiocracy'.

 

[azzaman]

I think your mixing fact and fiction to support your argument. Your more than entitled to define your own morals, but they might not reflect the moral obligations of society. Your correct, morals do change over time. And when nicotine is seen by society as a drug for those under 18, kids can then post their "i'm so cool posing vids" for other teens to think are cool and do the same thing.

 

[sherid]

I think you are missing the point. Censorship at one level leads to more censorship, and in my opinion, leads to a kind of controlled Orwellian society that I do not want to be a part of. Free speech defines our existence as a democratic society. Just because you don't like the content of these videos does not give you the right to demand their extinction.

 

[azzaman]

The censorship is for those posting videos promoting a product for those who are not of legal age. There are a lot of things that those who are under age are not allowed to do, should we just lift those bans?

 

[JD4x4]

Nobody is missing the point of free speech or of fairness.
Are you missing the point that it takes a certain level of wisdom to avoid misuse of free speech and to have the ability to judge what is and isn't fair?

There is a reason that the 'legal' definition of free speech does not include yelling fire in a dark & crowded theater when there is none, or words that insight hate or violence for the sake of hate or violence.
There is also logical, moral, (and now likely legal) reasoning behind not giving candy to a child whenever they want.

What makes you think that I should put any more weight to your words than mine as a parent with grown children and grandchildren? My children are (mostly) thankful that I guided and forced them when needed, against some of their desires when they were growing up. I actually trusted their judgement as being able to make informed and balanced decisions on their own (adult) well before the age that society and law defined them, but it most assuredly wasn't at 13 or 14.