Hi Tim. Yes, nicotine has the same density as water. To be completely specific:
Relative density (water = 1): 1.01
Yay!
Relative density (water = 1): 1.01
Yay!
Youtube misinformation gonna get someone hurt
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Thanks, I've been pondering that for a while now, I suppose that makes calculations much easier.
Tim: You raise a good question. As far as my rusty ol' chemistry memory goes ... your reasoning is sound.
I will be watching for a reasoned answer to your question.
EDIT: I posted without (somehow) seeing Rachel's reply. That would make sense in the calculations. I'm too tired to double check the figures, so I'll have to accept, LOL.
I will be watching for a reasoned answer to your question.
EDIT: I posted without (somehow) seeing Rachel's reply. That would make sense in the calculations. I'm too tired to double check the figures, so I'll have to accept, LOL.
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Wow, if you guys are ragging on Phee for selling to a few people, how do you feel about this guy?
YouTube - vaporskitchen's Channel
At least when you diy, you know if your kitchen is clean
and this guy is a Canadian supplier.
YouTube - vaporskitchen's Channel
At least when you diy, you know if your kitchen is clean
and this guy is a Canadian supplier.
Me too. I was expecting a dirty home kitchen set-up. Dirty soup ladles add "extra" flavor.
Just a quick point here;
It doesn't matter if there is one or a dozen "bad DIY" videos floating around YouTube. People looking to learn don't typically watch one video and consider their research complete. They'll watch many. The better learners will look up additional information outside YouTube as well (like ECF). Chances are, they'll come to the right conclusion in the end. There is more good information than bad floating around.
As for nobody needing higher than 36mg;
Where is your research? Where are your facts?
That statement is the equivalent of saying 'Alcohol spirits should be banned. Nobody needs more than 6%, or what is in the average light beer. Any higher than that and you're an alcoholic'.
It doesn't matter if there is one or a dozen "bad DIY" videos floating around YouTube. People looking to learn don't typically watch one video and consider their research complete. They'll watch many. The better learners will look up additional information outside YouTube as well (like ECF). Chances are, they'll come to the right conclusion in the end. There is more good information than bad floating around.
As for nobody needing higher than 36mg;
Where is your research? Where are your facts?
That statement is the equivalent of saying 'Alcohol spirits should be banned. Nobody needs more than 6%, or what is in the average light beer. Any higher than that and you're an alcoholic'.
lol...really? You've got a guy who seems to be mixing his liquids at his kitchen table and selling them. I'm just hoping he is not purchasing pure nic concentration because if he doesn't dilute/mix properly, you could have droplets of very high level nic floating in your liquid. Now that is something that's dangerous! Beyond that, VG makes liquid sweet more than PG. I would hope that someone selling the stuff would know better.
The real point is, I would trust something I mixed more than some guy mixing in his bathtub, or in this case kitchen
The real point is, I would trust something I mixed more than some guy mixing in his bathtub, or in this case kitchen
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With all respect, Johnny - your alcohol analogy is flawed. A glass of liquor is by no means deadly.
Nor would consuming a glass make you an alcoholic.
Conversely, e-liquid at 100mg nic strength...only 5 or 6 drops, absorbed through the skin, will kill an adult human in very short order. The deadliness of the liquid at that level is not in dispute. It's a fact.
If you're asking me whether I've spoken with every vaper on the planet, or conducted clinical testing or anything on the subject, obviously I haven't. No one has. My opinion (that 36mg is the highest nicotine strength of e-juice that should be legally available to consumers) is based on the common knowledge that most people who vape do so at levels lower than 36mg. Anyone observing the vaping community at large knows that 18mg to 24mg is by far the most commonly vaped level-range. Indeed, many vapers vape at even lower levels.
My opinion is also based on the fact that we know that 100mg-nic strength liquid is unsafe. Safety laws & limits exist to protect the population (especially those that are not as bright as others). They exist to protect not just consumers, but also the liability of manufacturers & the regulatory bodies overseeing them. Once e-cigs & e-juice were granted market authorization, Canada would (& should) impose some level of restriction in regards to concentration.
Are you suggesting that when regulatory oversight for e-cigs & e-juice is put into place in Canada, that there should be no limits on the nicotine strength in e-liquids? And if not...what would you suggest an appropriate limit would be?
Nor would consuming a glass make you an alcoholic.
Conversely, e-liquid at 100mg nic strength...only 5 or 6 drops, absorbed through the skin, will kill an adult human in very short order. The deadliness of the liquid at that level is not in dispute. It's a fact.
If you're asking me whether I've spoken with every vaper on the planet, or conducted clinical testing or anything on the subject, obviously I haven't. No one has. My opinion (that 36mg is the highest nicotine strength of e-juice that should be legally available to consumers) is based on the common knowledge that most people who vape do so at levels lower than 36mg. Anyone observing the vaping community at large knows that 18mg to 24mg is by far the most commonly vaped level-range. Indeed, many vapers vape at even lower levels.
My opinion is also based on the fact that we know that 100mg-nic strength liquid is unsafe. Safety laws & limits exist to protect the population (especially those that are not as bright as others). They exist to protect not just consumers, but also the liability of manufacturers & the regulatory bodies overseeing them. Once e-cigs & e-juice were granted market authorization, Canada would (& should) impose some level of restriction in regards to concentration.
Are you suggesting that when regulatory oversight for e-cigs & e-juice is put into place in Canada, that there should be no limits on the nicotine strength in e-liquids? And if not...what would you suggest an appropriate limit would be?
I don't honestly know whether that is true or not. I'll lean in your direction though, for the sake of argument, and say that 6 drops of 100mg juice absorbed directly through the skin (directly into the bloodstream) is potentially deadly. Even if that is true, it's not gonna happen. Meaning, if you slathered up your hands in 100mg juice and rubbed it in for a half an hour, you probably wouldn't absorb that much in the process. And, it absolutely would not "Kill an adult in VERY SHORT order". No doubt, it's not a healthy thing to do though.
Your precautions are worthy, your hysteria is outrageous, IMO.
Your arguments seem pretty bizarre to me. And yet, I have 100mg juice which I use for mixing. I use appropriate precautions and do not recommend uneducated folk to proceed haphazardly. Just sayin, come on, get realistic.
Switched...if your photo was in reference to me...I seriously pity you. Labels do not make arguments.
Especially inaccurately applied labels.
I have extended the olive branch to you more than once, and I extend it to you again. When someone disagrees with you on an issue, it should be taken as an invitation to discuss the matter further...not as a reason to get angry - or act abusive - towards that person. I am not interested in pursuing personal conflicts. What I am interested in is engaging in friendly, open discussion about these issues that affect us all.
Jonny...since you appear uninterested in discussing the situation further, or offering an opinion re: nicotine limits...and have just dismissed all Canadians with your gun comment (geez)...I will simply wish you a Merry x-mas & all the best.
Especially inaccurately applied labels.
I have extended the olive branch to you more than once, and I extend it to you again. When someone disagrees with you on an issue, it should be taken as an invitation to discuss the matter further...not as a reason to get angry - or act abusive - towards that person. I am not interested in pursuing personal conflicts. What I am interested in is engaging in friendly, open discussion about these issues that affect us all.
Jonny...since you appear uninterested in discussing the situation further, or offering an opinion re: nicotine limits...and have just dismissed all Canadians with your gun comment (geez)...I will simply wish you a Merry x-mas & all the best.
Speaking of "Misinformation", 5 drops of 100mg liquid on your skin will NOT kill you. I get 100mg all over my fingers sometimes and it does nothing. Now pure nicotine (1000mg) could make you very sick or even kill a small child, but 100mg NO.
Really? That's your law, not mine. It wasn't put into law for no reason. Canadians put the handgun ban in. But anyone capable of reading and comprehension understands what I meant.
I think that the main point of this thread has been lost. I think the original point was that somebody made a video professing to know how to handle nicotine, and clearly didn't have the information correct. I think we can, probably, all agree that people should research DIYing nicotine, and get valid information before handling it. If not, they should just stick with ordering from the thousands of pre-mixed varieties being sold by the many suppliers.
The problem lies with your own private agenda, which ever that is. From the beginning you have been offered great advise from the folks at ECF and the Canadian sub as a whole, yet you were argumentative. That is fine, you presented your arguments. But many learned folks have offered you solid advice on where the pitfalls lie.
It is also understood that a new vaper is going through withdrawal symptoms in the beginning and that is taken into consideration. From someone who swore she had no intention of vaping nicotine, it does seem that 18-22mg is more than no. The discussion of going cold turkey is indeed commendable, but their was an undertone dissing vapers who vaped nicotine.
Wrt how the real world functions, I believe you are out of touch with reality. It is nothing personal, just an observation, which many have pointed out. Wrt Jack and Rob applauding your efforts with CBC, of course they would/will. They have a dog in this fight and your opinion to government or CBC weights more than the opinion of a vendor, so yes get real. Jack is genuine and has the best interest of the community at heart, but at the end of the day if vaping gets banned in Canada, Jack could very well be out of business.
On to the bolded text...
You talk about rights for us all. Please explain to this individual who has given you the right, to write to our/my government wrt safe nicotine density? Doesn't that infringe on my right as a responsible adult to vape 50mg if I so desire? Not that I would but do you catch my drift?
Now I have indeed asked you what credentials do you posses that seem to entitle you to write the government as to what is and what isn't safe, other than being on a crusade?
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to review your history with us to find out what Rachel is really about. So yes i believe that the labels do indeed fit in this particular circumstance. If the labels were applied mistakenly then by all means, prove otherwise. Your participation of late has been nothing but a crusade. Why not offer some constructive information so we can all benefit, instead of sprouting out inaccurate information, since you seem so well versed in a plethora of topics.
Unless you have a degree with proven credentials in the field, it is my learnt opinion that you have no place in the vaping community to recommend safe nicotine levels to government. Doing so infringes on everyone's rights and could indeed be deemed as a crusade.
That's my olive branch...
Wow, this is getting harsh... I'll be off the forums till the new year, hope this thread is buried by then... Happy holidays everyone.
Switched - I am nothing more than a vaper who is daily interested in rallying our community together to action, for the purpose of getting e-cigs & e-juice market authorization in Canada. And every day, I meet new people & introduce them to vaping, with no other motive than seeing them have the opportunity to be freed from tobacco. This is what I am about, nothing more.
When I comment on the importance of safety (as I did originally in this thread), or start a thread asking people to write to the CBC when relevant vape-related news goes unreported...or offer advice on cartomizer filling, or post on any one of a thousand different things in this forum...my only agenda is to be a respectful, thoughtful, helpful & active member of this community.
I do not claim to be perfect. Like everyone here, I have learned a lot since becoming a vaper...and have a lot more to learn. Like everyone here, I sometimes make mistakes. But I'm telling you man...my heart & motives are pure.
For some reason though, just about everything rubs you the wrong way. You don't view disagreement as an invitation to further respectful discussion; you seem to take it as a personal attack (which it isn't), and this has increasingly led you to at times become angry and abusive towards me. The fact that I don't agree with you on this or that, that I politely explain why I disagree & look things up before I do - apparently drives you nuts. To the point where it bugs you now that we find agreement on anything at all. That's irrational, man. Do you understand?
If you make a point and someone offers an opposing counterpoint, that is an invitation for you to consider the counterpoint & offer one of your own. It is not an invitation to start namecalling. You can phrase it however you like. "Crusader" (with a negative connotation) - "troll" - "out of touch with reality" - your vague, negative insinuations (i.e. "I wonder what Rachel's private agenda really is??") - the truth is that these names & applications are projections of your own behaviour & attitudes, not mine. You can project them onto me until the cows come home, and it won't change the fact that they don't apply to me.
Your continued attempts to draw me into a personal conflict are not helpful. They are an irrelevant distraction from the legitimate business of this forum.
However, to briefly answer your question: every citizen of Canada, by virtue of being Canadian, has the credentials & the inherent right to offer recommendations to their elected politicians. In fact it is the civic duty of every citizen to do so. (Are you also exercising that right by contacting your elected politicians?)
My opinions & recommendations are based on what is scientifically known about nicotine, on the common knowledge that any competent researcher can gather from news stories, studies, etc etc. They are offered by me for no other reason than my wish to see e-cigs & e-juice receive market authorization without unreasonable restrictions, but also without a wildly unsafe lack of restrictions. I have invited further opinions & a frank, friendly discussion on the matter.
Agreed, FreakyStylie.
Totally, Tim. It's definitely stressing me out too. I come to the forum for friendship, community & support. Not personal attacks on my character. I was willing to let the thread rest with FreakyStylie's post. Anyway...
Merry Christmas, Tim. Really happy for you that you've quit smoking & started vaping. Hope it goes well with your family over the holidays & that Santa brings you some special goodies with lots of x-mas love.
When I comment on the importance of safety (as I did originally in this thread), or start a thread asking people to write to the CBC when relevant vape-related news goes unreported...or offer advice on cartomizer filling, or post on any one of a thousand different things in this forum...my only agenda is to be a respectful, thoughtful, helpful & active member of this community.
I do not claim to be perfect. Like everyone here, I have learned a lot since becoming a vaper...and have a lot more to learn. Like everyone here, I sometimes make mistakes. But I'm telling you man...my heart & motives are pure.
For some reason though, just about everything rubs you the wrong way. You don't view disagreement as an invitation to further respectful discussion; you seem to take it as a personal attack (which it isn't), and this has increasingly led you to at times become angry and abusive towards me. The fact that I don't agree with you on this or that, that I politely explain why I disagree & look things up before I do - apparently drives you nuts. To the point where it bugs you now that we find agreement on anything at all. That's irrational, man. Do you understand?
If you make a point and someone offers an opposing counterpoint, that is an invitation for you to consider the counterpoint & offer one of your own. It is not an invitation to start namecalling. You can phrase it however you like. "Crusader" (with a negative connotation) - "troll" - "out of touch with reality" - your vague, negative insinuations (i.e. "I wonder what Rachel's private agenda really is??") - the truth is that these names & applications are projections of your own behaviour & attitudes, not mine. You can project them onto me until the cows come home, and it won't change the fact that they don't apply to me.
Your continued attempts to draw me into a personal conflict are not helpful. They are an irrelevant distraction from the legitimate business of this forum.
However, to briefly answer your question: every citizen of Canada, by virtue of being Canadian, has the credentials & the inherent right to offer recommendations to their elected politicians. In fact it is the civic duty of every citizen to do so. (Are you also exercising that right by contacting your elected politicians?)
My opinions & recommendations are based on what is scientifically known about nicotine, on the common knowledge that any competent researcher can gather from news stories, studies, etc etc. They are offered by me for no other reason than my wish to see e-cigs & e-juice receive market authorization without unreasonable restrictions, but also without a wildly unsafe lack of restrictions. I have invited further opinions & a frank, friendly discussion on the matter.
Agreed, FreakyStylie.
Totally, Tim. It's definitely stressing me out too. I come to the forum for friendship, community & support. Not personal attacks on my character. I was willing to let the thread rest with FreakyStylie's post. Anyway...
Switched - I am nothing more than a vaper who is daily interested in rallying our community together to action, for the purpose of getting e-cigs & e-juice market authorization in Canada. And every day, I meet new people & introduce them to vaping, with no other motive than seeing them have the opportunity to be freed from tobacco. This is what I am about, nothing more.
When I comment on the importance of safety (as I did originally in this thread), or start a thread asking people to write to the CBC when relevant vape-related news goes unreported...or offer advice on cartomizer filling, or post on any one of a thousand different things in this forum...my only agenda is to be a respectful, thoughtful, helpful & active member of this community.
I do not claim to be perfect. Like everyone here, I have learned a lot since becoming a vaper...and have a lot more to learn. Like everyone here, I sometimes make mistakes. But I'm telling you man...my heart & motives are pure.
For some reason though, just about everything rubs you the wrong way. You don't view disagreement as an invitation to further respectful discussion; you seem to take it as a personal attack (which it isn't), and this has increasingly led you to at times become angry and abusive towards me. The fact that I don't agree with you on this or that, that I politely explain why I disagree & look things up before I do - apparently drives you nuts. To the point where it bugs you now that we find agreement on anything at all. That's irrational, man. Do you understand?
If you make a point and someone offers an opposing counterpoint, that is an invitation for you to consider the counterpoint & offer one of your own. It is not an invitation to start namecalling. You can phrase it however you like. "Crusader" (with a negative connotation) - "troll" - "out of touch with reality" - your vague, negative insinuations (i.e. "I wonder what Rachel's private agenda really is??") - the truth is that these names & applications are projections of your own behaviour & attitudes, not mine. You can project them onto me until the cows come home, and it won't change the fact that they don't apply to me.
Your continued attempts to draw me into a personal conflict are not helpful. They are an irrelevant distraction from the legitimate business of this forum.
However, to briefly answer your question: every citizen of Canada, by virtue of being Canadian, has the credentials & the inherent right to offer recommendations to their elected politicians. In fact it is the civic duty of every citizen to do so. (Are you also exercising that right by contacting your elected politicians?)
My opinions & recommendations are based on what is scientifically known about nicotine, on the common knowledge that any competent researcher can gather from news stories, studies, etc etc. They are offered by me for no other reason than my wish to see e-cigs & e-juice receive market authorization without unreasonable restrictions, but also without a wildly unsafe lack of restrictions. I have invited further opinions & a frank, friendly discussion on the matter.
Agreed, FreakyStylie.
Totally, Tim. It's definitely stressing me out too. I come to the forum for friendship, community & support. Not personal attacks on my character. I was willing to let the thread rest with FreakyStylie's post. Anyway...
Merry Christmas, Tim. Really happy for you that you've quit smoking & started vaping. Hope it goes well with your family over the holidays & that Santa brings you some special goodies with lots of x-mas love.
....and someone reported one of my posts as being "Off Topic". Nice.
I think this thread has been derailed enough to the point that the original topic is no longer in discussion, and the direction has turned into a debate (albeit non friendly and direct) of another topic all together beyond the inexperienced sloppiness of a video creator in the first post.
I'm closing this thread for that reason alone.
I would hope to see in the future, that we can have educated and informative discussions without personal feelings obstructing the goal of debate rather than resorting to (what I read), character attacks or name direct disagreements .. Remember: Attack the POST, not the POSTER.
VapeOn,
Greg
I'm closing this thread for that reason alone.
I would hope to see in the future, that we can have educated and informative discussions without personal feelings obstructing the goal of debate rather than resorting to (what I read), character attacks or name direct disagreements .. Remember: Attack the POST, not the POSTER.
VapeOn,
Greg
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