Zen~ Family Reunion

[K-man]

Actually it may have been the peace out by Mike himself. I don't think you can take credit for that one K-man

Wasn't taking credit at all. Just thought there may have been a sh!tstorm there after I, and a few others from here posted in Zens defense. It was absolutely Mike's decision to leave.

 

[ksmith]

Can I "like" this post twice?

I've never used anything other than AW IMR's, but can't imagine anything better considering the performance of mine that have been in action since April.

I have some that have been in action since april also. April of 2011 that is

 

[K-man]

and let me know if i need to resume dowry negotiations....

Nah, I'm good. With her husband stealing her MFA from her, and the recent addition of the Blueline to my arsenal, she has two more reasons to keep our deal. That, and she knows that I'll buy every freaking new APV our bearded friend makes.

Now all she has to do is out live me

 

[kiba]

love your sig k-man, lol i loaded up some rat juice in my SW this morning and it has mysteriously gone missing, and there is a pink prozap mini in its place....

 

[Vapor2112]

Ok, I have to say, I went to the Mall the other day and almost took / posted a slew of pictures here, because kept being reminded of the crew here.

You can do the math, I saw -
- A kiosk selling posters of Kramer
- A store that sells misc shoes & imported hats with a carved wooden indian
- Some rats in the pet store window
- A metal sign that said "Hippies use side entrance"
- Kids taking pictures with, yep, Santa

 

[dearme]

I have not commented on the BAM situation before and as you all know, I have always defended Mike vigorously from all attacks.

As I see it, this is what the problem stemmed from.

1. Terrible communication. I understand perfectly that Mike can not be expected to answer all BAM shipping questions daily, however I don't think a quick update weekly or biweekly would be that much of a strain. When production problems arose, he did not say anything until the promised shipping date was well past, which was annoying. When the shipping dates which were posted in the thread continued to pass, frustration built.

2. Delivering BAMs at VC was, in hindsight, a bad miscalculation with the knowledge that the remainder of the BAM orders could not/would not be shipped immediately after his return home. There had been a problem with the BAM anodizing several times which apparently did not happen with anodizing colors other than black. This was posted in mid July. Resentment, frustration, and a feeling of unfairness continued to build as people perceived that at least some of the BAMs had been finished.

3. Watching Cobalts and SWs and more Minis and Standards, etc, show up at vendors before the BAMs were shipped added insult to injury as the Cobalts and Pchelas which were apparently exactly like the BAMs except for the color of the anodizing and were conceived and put in production well after the BAMs. Therefore, people felt the BAM delay was not due to missing parts, rather a delay/postponement in assembling them. More resentment/frustration built up.

4. When the frustration reached a peak and the old HOH thread was closed, Mike posted that all the remaining BAMs would be shipped as they were completed, starting on the 16th, and all would be out by the end of the month. The 16th came and went without anyone receiving shipping notices. Frustration, resentment, and a strong feeling of unfairness was now total.

I think Mike lost a lot of trust and respect because of the long duration of the BAM problem. I also think that all, or most, of the resentment/frustration could have been avoided by short weekly/biweekly updates in the Zen Alert thread which would probably have taken less than 1 minute to make, and would not have taken too much time away from the actual production/assembly of the BAM and other APVs.

I don't think anyone felt that they would never receive the BAM, and I'm sure that if they had asked for a refund of their BAM money at any time, it would have been cheerfully refunded. It was the way the situation was handled that caused the problem. People can live with delays if they are kept informed and don't feel ignored. They especially get very vocal when they perceive unfairness and lies, whether it's true or not. Hence the loss of trust and respect.

JMO........

 

[kiba]

i aggree w/ most of that but i also think that if mike was posting on here, like he said himself, people would still be mad, saying he has no right to be socialising untill all this stuff is finished.

it just the fact that he has set his own bar so high that when he has problems similar to ones other suppliers have had, he is met w/ an unfair amount of flaming.

 

[K-man]

love your sig k-man, lol i loaded up some rat juice in my SW this morning and it has mysteriously gone missing, and there is a pink prozap mini in its place....

lol I wonder who mighta done that

I agree. I've been vaping it since August and lovin it! Don't know if they're selling it but try Shipwrecked. It's good too.


Now a plug for our Sponsor Jason I received a couple of packages from you yesterday. I have to say again how impressed with how quickly you ship your stuff out, and how quickly it gets to Canada. Got a couple of juices from you too. I've yet to try them out but they smell great

 

[kiba]

lol I wonder who mighta done that

I agree. I've been vaping it since August and lovin it! Don't know if they're selling it but try Shipwrecked. It's good too.


Now a plug for our Sponsor Jason I received a couple of packages from you yesterday. I have to say again how impressed with how quickly you ship your stuff out, and how quickly it gets to Canada. Got a couple of juices from you too. I've yet to try them out but they smell great

cool, ill try that, and yeah he does ship surprisingly fast

 

[arguablybetter]

i aggree w/ most of that but i also think that if mike was posting on here, like he said himself, people would still be mad, saying he has no right to be socialising untill all this stuff is finished.

it just the fact that he has set his own bar so high that when he has problems similar to ones other suppliers have had, he is met w/ an unfair amount of flaming.

I don't recall anyone flaming Zen~ over the BAM. If there was, it was less than 5% of those who ordered. I agree a lot of customer frustration would have been alleviated by weekly communication BEFORE new deadlines were broken. This doesn't equal socializing, this would be informative updating. I realize Zen~ has innovated a whole community of people who love his products and also have become friends. I think sometimes a situation like that leads people to defend ANY criticism of ANY KIND. But anybody in business knows that you learn from mistakes and you learn from criticism. You should welcome suggestion and criticism. In fact, welcoming and listening to such things is in itself a way to strengthen the relationship between consumer and producer. Zen~ himself defended those that complained to 3rd parties about the BAM issue. I think it's better to look at something and see what could have been done better.

 

[UnFettered_Soul]

and let me know if i need to resume dowry negotiations....

You mean we stopped?

Let's see....
we left off with all his Zens,
every Zen ever made for life,
a '66 convertable Mustang in mint condition, and his 'Vette
a custom built house on the side of a mountain..... I wanna own the mountain too.
I'm sure I'll think of something else.

 

[dearme]

i aggree w/ most of that but i also think that if mike was posting on here, like he said himself, people would still be mad, saying he has no right to be socialising untill all this stuff is finished.

it just the fact that he has set his own bar so high that when he has problems similar to ones other suppliers have had, he is met w/ an unfair amount of flaming.

Perhaps........but a weekly or biweekly update in the Zen Alert thread would only have taken a minute and would have gone a long way in assuaging people's frustration. If one minute makes that much difference, then there are more serious problems.

 

[K-man]

You mean we stopped?

Let's see....
we left off with all his Zens,
every Zen ever made for life,
a '66 convertable Mustang in mint condition, and his 'Vette
a custom built house on the side of a mountain..... I wanna own the mountain too.
I'm sure I'll think of something else.

The list is growing

 

[pchela]

Well, nobody deserves the last thing Mike talked about over there and anybody who would do such a thing is a complete (insert worst thing you can imagine here). I can understand some frustration or even anger with the wait but bashing and name calling and then that - things are definitely out of control. It's disgusting and vile. I'm very sorry to see that all this happened - I'm seeing a very ugly side of people and I don't like it. I have never seen another vendor/supplier treated with such disrespect or hostility and Mike does not deserve that.

 

[Grammie]

The last of the HOH orders from Mike's site must be going out. I recieved mine today (ordered back in October some time, don't remember don't care)!

I suppose it helps that I've met the man face to face. I knew with everything going on that I would get my order, never a worry that it wouldn't show up once Mike got caught up.

Sorry to hear about VW, there's always some nasty people out there that just don't care about anyone. I will say, right now, that if you've ever met Mike, you wouldn't have one doubt in your mind that he will come thru for you.

 

[dearme]

Well, nobody deserves the last thing Mike talked about over there and anybody who would do such a thing is a complete (insert worst thing you can imagine here). I can understand some frustration or even anger with the wait but bashing and name calling and then that - things are definitely out of control. It's disgusting and vile. I'm very sorry to see that all this happened - I'm seeing a very ugly side of people and I don't like it. I have never seen another vendor/supplier treated with such disrespect or hostility and Mike does not deserve that.

I belong to VW, but don't often follow the Zen thread over there. I got very tired of the rude comments from some of the members.

I, therefore, don't have any knowledge of the very recent comments that evidently decided Mike to close the thread, but I can certainly see how having to continuously listen to those comments which you consider unjust would get very irritating.

Again, a twice a month update would have calmed the angry mob who don't visit ECF.

 

[Bamrz]

i was there often trying to read the posts, but had no inkling or heart to say much at all, I just couldnt read much past the nasty attacks... contrary to disarstar and others have said, sorry, there's a big difference between complaining and all out cruise-missle with a 100megaton warhead attack.... 5 posts since joining there it didn't matter what the explaination would have been or why, it is like talking to a deaf person. they still wanted it 'yesterday', they couldn't see past their own selfishness...

I subscribed to the thread, and read all that was posted. I agree Shai, it didn't seem that anything any of us would post would have made any difference. Some did try, but they were blown off.

I guess ill stick with aw imrs then...thanks guys. It just sucks how the mah is so low on them

Have you seen the 2000mah ones? I don't know who all carries them, but they are out there. And I want to add that I haven't had one die on me yet, and some have been in use since Dec. of 2010. I always check them too.

Well, nobody deserves the last thing Mike talked about over there and anybody who would do such a thing is a complete (insert worst thing you can imagine here). I can understand some frustration or even anger with the wait but bashing and name calling and then that - things are definitely out of control. It's disgusting and vile. I'm very sorry to see that all this happened - I'm seeing a very ugly side of people and I don't like it. I have never seen another vendor/supplier treated with such disrespect or hostility and Mike does not deserve that.

I totally agree Pchela. That was a vile and nasty thing for anyone to do. But it does give you an idea of the maturity level involved.

 

[vicsan]

Well, nobody deserves the last thing Mike talked about over there and anybody who would do such a thing is a complete (insert worst thing you can imagine here). I can understand some frustration or even anger with the wait but bashing and name calling and then that - things are definitely out of control. It's disgusting and vile. I'm very sorry to see that all this happened - I'm seeing a very ugly side of people and I don't like it. I have never seen another vendor/supplier treated with such disrespect or hostility and Mike does not deserve that.

I just read his last post. Pretty freakin' disgusting and downright hateful.

 

[Grammie]

Oh, I got a few goodies (new juice) in my HOH order! Thanks Mike!! I'll be loading up a ... hum ... eenny meenny minny mo, which Zen in which it will go > decisions decisions!

 

[dearme]

Knowledge learned the hard way.........

If your APV is as clean as a baby's bottom, has a good battery, and does not have a major short showing, but is doing nothing for you in performance and power, and you are at your wit's end.......it is almost a certainty that you have a small piece of wire caught under either the positive or negative screw..........

I pass along this information so that you do not throw your Zen device through the window after you think you have done everything possible to correct the situation to no avail.........LOL