pH values and harshness of eliquid

[Cymri]

I have experimented with Ammonium Carbonate "Baker's Ammonia" to adjust pH value in both PG and VG liquids. It does the job in very minute quantities which should be safe, non-irritating(well, not more than intended. we are talking about "throat hit") and minimally affecting taste. However, I have not noticed any real increase in "throat hit" even from very high alkaline concentrations approaching 9.0.

Adjusting pH MAY be more important as far as nicotine absorption than flavor or "hit."

excellent- that sounds perfect Jaaxx. I'm only interested in the effect of pH on free nicotine instead of "throat hit." Seems like a carbonate would be really easy on both atomizers and lungs as well. Should be nicely volatile as well. good one- I'll give it a try

 

[Jaaxx]

Should be nicely volatile as well. good one- I'll give it a try

You got that right. You should NOT shake to mix. Bad things happen.

Also, I find that if you mix with distilled water and let it sit overnight in a beaker covered with filter cloth (or similar breathable material.) Most of the free ammonia will dissipate, however the mixture is still effective at increasing alkalinity.

 

[exogenesis]

Not sure I necessarily want a huge 'throat hit', but I do want
the quick satisfaction that I get from smoking.

Well, just measured the 'pH' of some 36mg, 'unflavoured' TW liquid at pH 8.3
(using a calibrated pH meter).

Apparently for smoke:

pHeffective = 8.06 + log[αfb/(1 − αfb)]

Where 8.06 is the pKa of non-free-base (protonated, NicH+) nicotine in water at 20'C,
αfb is the fractin of nicotine in free-base form.

Fraction of Free-Base Nicotine in Fresh Smoke Particulate Matter from the Eclipse ?Cigarette? by 1H NMR Spectroscopy - Chemical Research in Toxicology (ACS Publications)
http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=14503545

Reversing the formula:
if Y = 10 ^ (pH - 8.06)
αfb = Y/(1+Y)

If this is correct & if it holds true for e-liquid / vapour then you'd have

pH     approx % of nicotine as free-base
6      1
6.5    2.5
7      8
7.5    22
8      47
8.5    73
9      88
9.6    96

so pH 8.3 would give 63% free-base.

A lot more than I thought,
but I wonder then why I don't get that 'instant gratification'
with vaping that I do with smoking ?

Does the bulk PG/VG hold the nicotine release to blood-stream
back that much ?

 

[kinabaloo]

Exo - great chart of free-base vs pH.

I have theorised before that PG and VG hold onto quite a lot of the nicotine in the lung only slowly releasing it. VG, at least, and probably PG too, has an affinity for nicotine AND is very slow to evaporate. I theorised that this could explain the diminished 'hit' from vaping while also allowing for the cases where nic OD occurs with vaping. That the initial absorbtion is reduced, but with a time-delayed absorption that can lead to overdoing it over some/many hours.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-absorbtion-vaping-research-5.html#post245734

 

[exogenesis]

That pretty much what I'm thinking,
maybe they should have stuck with the water-based vaping liquid
(if there ever was actually such a thing).

 

[kinabaloo]

That pretty much what I'm thinking,
maybe they should have stuck with the water-based vaping liquid
(if there ever was actually such a thing).

A PG base might provide a better 'hit' than VG is this thinking is correct. VG is very stubborn about evaporating and has been used to trap nicotine in cigarette filters (linked in my above link I think).

 

[ThreeDogDad]

I have experimented with Ammonium Carbonate "Baker's Ammonia" to adjust pH value in both PG and VG liquids. It does the job in very minute quantities which should be safe, non-irritating(well, not more than intended. we are talking about "throat hit") and minimally affecting taste. However, I have not noticed any real increase in "throat hit" even from very high alkaline concentrations approaching 9.0.

Adjusting pH MAY be more important as far as nicotine absorption than flavor or "hit."

I wanted to say thanks for all this information. 8-o

 

[Throat hit]

Best read I have had yet on this forum excellent info. I am a new vaper and have found that the nicotine creeps on very slow. The first time I had to much it took about three hours to recover so hangs on to. I do not think the e-cig is a blunt tool when delivering nicotine it has much more to do with the speed it gets to the brain which I now is slower from my own reaction. I do not know why but think it is to do with lack of supporting chemicals which help to give the typical head rush of a cigarette. I'm very glad to be part of a forum community that has members with a great knowlege and will to gather together information such as is posted here. I think if an e cigarette device gave the same speedy absorbtion as a cigarette it would be very nice. However this may detract from the idea of e cigs being good for stopping smoking. The rush is the best, read most addictive part for me at least..I am getting my nicotine from my e-cig as I type this and have no desire to smoke cigarettes again. This is probably the best situation and causes a less adictive tendancy habbit wise. I vape and get a good slow long dose of what I need. I vape at a relaxed and steady pace and do not feel the need to grab my PV if a bad thing happens. If it gave that great speedy hit I would. Prehaps in the future e juice will come in two classes that for avoiding craving and another to provide pure smoking pleasue. E juice has opened a door of many wonders. Thanks once again to all who have made this post kind regards Rob.

 

[BorisTheSpider]

Wow, that's a thread resurrection if I ever saw one. I'm glad though, as I would have completely missed this thread had it not just been brought to the forefront. The more I know about vaping, the better. I've noticed there a ton of very intelligent people from many different fields here, doing all kinds of research, which helps to spread the info.

I feel like someone could easily write a book on vaping with all the information here and submit it to congress. Of course, they'd probably read about as much of it as they did the health care bill, which is to say "not at all." Political jabs aside, I am seriously impressed with the wealth of knowledge here. And again, I'm glad to have read this (pretty old) thread which I would have missed totally in my searching. I never would have thought to include "pH" in any of my searches.

Just awesome.

 

[pwmeek]

Additives in tobacco products
<huge post snipped and 'liked'>

WOW! Thank you for this huge amount of research. I will be getting some litmus strips and checking the juice in my cartos. Varying pH levels may account for different levels of satisfaction in juices with nominally similar nicotine levels.