They're coming after Juul!

[United States]

juul banned vaping in their home office. Then juul products were banned from being used in their home location.

Such irony.

They were targeting young adults, but should have been more careful with the supply chain showing up at gas stations all over the place. Companies like BO only sell in vape shops that card patrons.
Yeah, some say they aimed at teens. Only the ad execs know whether or not it was the case. One thing for certain is that a whole bunch of former smokers use a Juul now.

 

[stols001]

In some ways, I found the Juul "We are not interested in health" refreshing.

I know e-cigs are a healthier alternative, and perhaps Juul is pushing the envelope but they sure have gotten a lot of ADULT smokers off smoking too. I cannot help but think (unless their secret ingredient is cyanide or something which I doubt would get past government scrutiny, they did scrutinize it I believe? I may be wrong) it's probably safer than smoking.

I took a hit off a Juul once (my kid briefly used one... had a hard time quitting it to, just FYI) and I did not hit the floor. I did take ONE puff and handed it back, going "That's WAY too rich for my blood." It was hard to believe it was just the super high nic content but who knows. I upped my nic pretty CLOSE (oh, say 40) in a couple setups when I had a pernicious relapse right after my first year. The effect was somewhat similar.

To be fair to Juul, while they are the cockroaches of the vaping world I STILL

WANT TO KNOW HOW IN WHAT PLANET DOING SOMETHING ILLEGAL AND THEN SUING THE COMPANY THAT MANUFACTURED THE ILLEGAL SUSBSTANCE doesn't get laughed out of court. I mean we don't see ...... users suing their dealers. Informing on them maybe for a better plea, but no LAWSUITS.

But still I am sort of liking the ballsy move of saying "We are making a product that is appealing, we aren't doing it for the health benefits." I realize probably many other vape companies and emporiums do NOT feel that way, but they are also looking to make a profit, frankly.

IDK. Juul is so confusing. Marketing to kids is not really kosher either, but like, MEH.. Unless the commercials say "Call this 1-800 number to get your illegal vape," IDK. Yes, I realize it's bad, the cigarette companies did it, that was bad.

I can't help but feel that marketing to teens was not the SOLE driving force to teen Juul popularity. IDK.
Anna

 

[Tabac man]

They wanted the latest 'quick hit'. Simples.

 

[Rossum]

We all used to go outside and smoke on breaks.

Uhm, no, not all of us. Some of us have been self employed business owners for several decades now, and thus able to smoke (or vape) without having to go outside on a "break".

 

[Rossum]

Too funny. Glad to hear she was ok! So why would they put 50 mg in them there pods? Hhmmm....i wonder how many kids hit the floor.

Because that's what it takes to replicate the nicotine "hit" (the rise in blood plasma levels) of a full-flavor cigarette from a small, minimally powered device.

 

[Rossum]

Juul banned vaping in their home office. Then Juul products were banned from being used in their home location.

Horsefeathers. Juul only banned vaping in their own offices after the state (CA) or local (SF) laws forced them to. I lost considerable respect from them when they did that, instead of saying, "Screw that, we're moving someplace with less stupid laws."

 

[Rossum]

But still I am sort of liking the ballsy move of saying "We are making a product that is appealing, we aren't doing it for the health benefits."

Vaping is a recreational tobacco product. Of course it's designed to be appealing.

Do you think the 250 watt cloud chasing rigs that many vape-shops push were created for the health benefits?

My personal opinion is that there's less health risk in vaping one or two Juul pods a day (0.7 to 1.4 ml of 59 mg/ml juice) than to vape 30 ml of 3 mg juice in a day, like many cloud-chasers do, and both yield about the same amount of nicotine.

 

[stols001]

I'm not arguing, @Rossum . Like I said, EVERY manufacturer is in it for the money and market share and the fact someone was able to stand up and SAY so to the media was refreshing.

I also agree it's not Juul's problem to police teen use. It is their parents problem and if more people would just SHUT THE hell up about teen use it would dwindle.

Sometimes if you spend 24/7 JUST YELLING AT A PROBLEM, it gets bigger.

I don't really have much beef with Juul and like I said, I do think they got a lot of adults off cigarettes and if teens have to experiment with nicotine I don't think the Juul is particularly dangerous, not compare to tobacco.

I am on Juul's side for the most part.

Anna

 

[Mazinny]

My point was 50mg is high for a never smoker kid. Farsalinos started the ground work years ago using 45mg as equivalent to a heavy smoker but set max concentration at 24mg . It was a comparison of our standards vs JUUL.

It's 59 mg/ml, not 50 actually.

 

[Mazinny]

Well then tell your never-smoker kid not to hit a Juul.

Heck, 18mg is high for a never-smoking adult. Just ask my never smoker wife who took one hit off one of my early eGo setups because it smelled so good. She had to sit down for a a few minutes.

The article said six million non-smoker adults are juuling too, I think.

 

[Mazinny]

Vaping is a recreational tobacco product. Of course it's designed to be appealing.

Do you think the 250 watt cloud chasing rigs that many vape-shops push were created for the health benefits?

My personal opinion is that there's less health risk in vaping one or two Juul pods a day (0.7 to 1.4 ml of 59 mg/ml juice) than to vape 30 ml of 3 mg juice in a day, like many cloud-chasers do, and both yield about the same amount of nicotine.

We can't tell without knowing the absorption rates.

 

[Mazinny]

Moved to Media and General News from General Vaping Discussion.


I want to know why all these "Concerned Parents" aren't screaming at the SCHOOLS for letting Juul on campus to talk to to their kids.
How the hell did that get approval from the School Board ?

Do we know if the the schools "let Juul on the campus", or if the kids just snuck them in.

 

[Rossum]

The article said six million non-smoker adults are juuling too, I think.

Let's assume this is true. My reaction is: So what?

Are we going to try to tell adults that they shouldn't use nicotine just because they've never smoked?

 

[Rossum]

We can't tell without knowing the absorption rates.

IMO, the health effects have little to do with the absorption rates. Juuls are puffed. Cloud-chasing rigs are designed to be huffed. You can't possibly convince me that a person would be better off huffing 30 ml of liquid a day via lung-busting, high-powered DL hits than he would be to puff 1.4ml of liquid from a couple of Juul pods.

 

[jjcordone]

Do we know if the the schools "let Juul on the campus", or if the kids just snuck them in.

Google when did Juul visit schools and decide for yourself. To me, this story is as blown out of proportion as the misinformation presented in the anti-vape hysteria stories that the media is producing now.
I believe they made presentations that were planned and paid for by Juul to the schools they did visit.
The part where they have been quoted as saying Juul is harmless came from the kids, no parents or teachers attended the presentations so we'll never know for sure. Juul says they didn't say this.
I do know teens have a way of hearing what they want to hear and repeated stories tend to become inflated.

 

[Mazinny]

Let's assume this is true. My reaction is: So what?

Are we going to try to tell adults that they shouldn't use nicotine just because they've never smoked?

No, I'm with you on that. My position is quite simple. We, as a society can not and should not pass laws to protect adults from harming themselves. I believe in legalization of other substances too. What I don't buy into any more, is Juul's stated mission of converting adult smokers. Too much information has leaked to believe that joke.

I was an enthusiastic supporter of Juul in the early days. My hope was that they would be a much needed jolt in the smoking cessation movement. Cigalikes were not too effective, and there was clear evidence that open-system vaping had plateaued by 2015/2016, and most smokers had rejected them. By 2016, the traffic in this and other forums was just a fraction of what it was in 2013/2014, for example. What I hoped was Juul would be instrumental in converting those adult smokers who for whatever reason rejected open-system vaping. What I couldn't imagine at the time, was that the vast majority of their customers would end up being underage and young adult never-smokers. It's only within the last year or so that evidence is emerging that those groups were their intended target, as early as late 2015. Perhaps it was pressure from their early investors to hit their targets, as the article suggests, or maybe it was pure greed, or a combination. I don't know.

 

[Mazinny]

IMO, the health effects have little to do with the absorption rates. Juuls are puffed. Cloud-chasing rigs are designed to be huffed. You can't possibly convince me that a person would be better off huffing 30 ml of liquid a day via lung-busting, high-powered DL hits than he would be to puff 1.4ml of liquid from a couple of Juul pods.

Oh ok, I misread your original post. I thought you're talking about addiction, not health effects.

 

[Mazinny]

Google when did Juul visit schools and decide for yourself. To me, this story is as blown out of proportion as the misinformation presented in the anti-vape hysteria stories that the media is producing now.
I believe they made presentations that were planned and paid for by Juul to the schools they did visit.
The part where they have been quoted as saying Juul is harmless came from the kids, no parents or teachers attended the presentations so we'll never know for sure. Juul says they didn't say this.
I do know teens have a way of hearing what they want to hear and repeated stories tend to become inflated.

Schools, plural, or school? My impression was that it was one isolated event. Was Juul giving seminars at many schools?

 

[Rossum]

What I hoped was Juul would be instrumental in converting those adult smokers who for whatever reason rejected open-system vaping. What I couldn't imagine at the time, was that the vast majority of their customers would end up being underage and young adult never-smokers.

What makes you think that those groups comprise a majority of Juul's customers?

And even if it's true, we should be asking ourselves: How many of them would have taken up smoking instead, if Juul didn't exist?

 

[jjcordone]

Schools, plural, or school? My impression was that it was one isolated event. Was Juul giving seminars at many schools?

The articles state schools plural, but I couldn't find a definitive number of how many schools.

"Juul operated a Youth Prevention and Education program that paid schools at least $10,000 to access students during school hours, summer classes or special Saturday programs"

Unfortunately now a days we really don't know how much of the information we see is true.
This quote is from the PhillyVoice newspaper.