18650 choice

[Ron Mallonee]

Vape kit
Innokin proton w/ scion 2 Plex tank.
Triple mesh coil .14 ohm.

I vape mostly curves that start between 75-95 watts and tail off after 2 or 3 seconds. I do have one curve that starts at 105 watts and tails off starting around 2 seconds.

So I bought 4 Sony 18650 Sony US18650VTC5 2600mAh High Discharge Flat Top
SKU:Sony US18650VTC5 2600

I chose this off of mooche’s chart and bought them from illumin.com. I also purchased the xstar dragon vp4 plus charger.

So I have been using this setup since about September 10th. In the beginning A set of batteries would last a day. Now I get only half to 2/3 day. I puff 150-180 times a day. So I am thinking I am either damaging them by over discharging them (the charger says they are between 3-5% charged when I swap my batteries out) or I have picked the wrong batteries for my vaping style. What are your thoughts? Should I charge the batteries sooner or would a battery like the LG 18650HG2 or HG6 be a better choice?

 

[bombastinator]

I suspect what is killing you is that 105w one. It’s right at the top of what the battery can handle, so once it drops in power a bit it’s going to start crapping out on you.

 

[Ron Mallonee]

I suspect what is killing you is that 105w one. It’s right at the top of what the battery can handle, so once it drops in power a bit it’s going to start crapping out on you.

Thanks bomb. I only do the 105 curve a couple of times a day and only when the batteries are fully or near fully charged. I was thinking a set of 30A batteries would handle the high water better and “coast” on the lower wattages. Am I thinking correctly?

 

[bombastinator]

Thanks bomb. I only do the 105 curve a couple of times a day and only when the batteries are fully or near fully charged. I was thinking a set of 30A batteries would handle the high water better and “coast” on the lower wattages. Am I thinking correctly?

Yes you will be able to more fully utilize what power your batteries hold. The problem is high drain batteries hold less total power so there’s probably some calculus involved in figuring out at what point one becomes more efficient over the other. Or you could just try some and see of course and avoid the math

 

[Ron Mallonee]

Yes you will be able to more fully utilize what power your batteries hold. The problem is high drain batteries hold less total power so there’s probably some calculus involved in figuring out at what point one becomes more efficient over the other. Or you could just try some and see of course and avoid the math

Me math? Too funny. The years have stolen that ability. That is my delima. The HG5 batteries seem to be 20A @ 3000mah which gives me no more current capacity but struggles for longer or the HG6 which supposed to be 30A @ 3000mah but I see test documentation that it’s really more like 2800mah which is still more than I have now

 

[Ron Mallonee]

So bomb if you were to recommend a battery matching my mod and vaping habits what would you recommend?

 

[bombastinator]

So bomb if you were to recommend a battery matching my mod and vaping habits what would you recommend?

*cant do the math either*

 

[Baditude]

The HG5 batteries seem to be 20A @ 3000mah which gives me no more current capacity but struggles for longer or the HG6 which supposed to be 30A @ 3000mah but I see test documentation that it’s really more like 2800mah which is still more than I have now

Be careful about typo's when discussing battery models and their specifications. The Hg2 is 3000mah 20 amp. TheHD5 is30 amps and 1500 mah. Hg6 is only 1500mah 30 amp. Choosing batteries is always a sea saw exercise between amp power VS. Mah capacity. Which spec is your top priority?

 

[Baditude]

So bomb if you were to recommend a battery matching my mod and vaping habits what would you recommend?

You should get a bit more run time with the Hg2, but may be an improvement of only 1-2 hours. Two batteries will be good for 120 watts, so they have the amps to fire your load.

 

[Fredman1]

*cant do the math either*

Suddenly I don't feel that lonely now

 

[bombastinator]

Suddenly I don't feel that lonely now

I know vaguely how it works and what it can be used for but calc I suspect is a use it or lose it skill. Especially considering how long ago I took it. Someone who does have the math though could take the two battery graphs from mooch’s blog and tell you exactly though

 

[Train2]

You MAY be running them too low.

"the charger says they are between 3-5% charged when I swap my batteries out"

My charger only tells me "volts" when I pull them - but I tend to pull them WAY before they'd be anywhere near depleted. It's different, cuz I'm running mechs - but they're 4.2 v when I start, and they're often still at 3.7 or 3.6 when I pull them (easy - because that's about a squonk-bottles worth of vape-time!).

At any rate, with these batteries, FREQUENT CHARGING, "topping off" - is PREFERABLE. You don't want to run them down as far as you can...

Vape kit
Innokin proton w/ scion 2 Plex tank.
Triple mesh coil .14 ohm.

I vape mostly curves that start between 75-95 watts and tail off after 2 or 3 seconds. I do have one curve that starts at 105 watts and tails off starting around 2 seconds.

So I bought 4 Sony 18650 Sony US18650VTC5 2600mAh High Discharge Flat Top
SKU:Sony US18650VTC5 2600

I chose this off of mooche’s chart and bought them from illumin.com. I also purchased the xstar dragon vp4 plus charger.

So I have been using this setup since about September 10th. In the beginning A set of batteries would last a day. Now I get only half to 2/3 day. I puff 150-180 times a day. So I am thinking I am either damaging them by over discharging them (the charger says they are between 3-5% charged when I swap my batteries out) or I have picked the wrong batteries for my vaping style. What are your thoughts? Should I charge the batteries sooner or would a battery like the LG 18650HG2 or HG6 be a better choice?

 

[bombastinator]

You MAY be running them too low.

"the charger says they are between 3-5% charged when I swap my batteries out"

My charger only tells me "volts" when I pull them - but I tend to pull them WAY before they'd be anywhere near depleted. It's different, cuz I'm running mechs - but they're 4.2 v when I start, and they're often still at 3.7 or 3.6 when I pull them (easy - because that's about a squonk-bottles worth of vape-time!).

At any rate, with these batteries, FREQUENT CHARGING, "topping off" - is PREFERABLE. You don't want to run them down as far as you can...

True. The upside of this is your hg2s will last longer because you’re not pulling them Down to minimum voltage. Doesn’t help when you suddenly run out of power of course

 

[Baditude]

How to choose which battery to use in your regulated mod: Take the wattage setting you typically vape at, and compare that wattage to the chart below. Biggest determinator is the amp rating of the battery, followed secondly by the capacity rating (mAh).

-If you use a good quality 15 amp CDR battery like the Samsung 30Q or Sony VTC6, then you are good up to 45 watts per battery; 90 watts using two; 135 watts for three batteries.

-If you use a good quality 20 amp CDR battery like the LG HG2 or Samsung 25R then you are good for 60 watts per battery. If using a 2-battery regulated mod, you're good for 120 watts as you have two batteries. If you are using a 3-battery mod, you're good for 180.

-If you use a single 25 amp CDR battery like the Sony VTC5A, then you are good for 75 watts per battery, 150 watts for two batteries, and 225 watts with three.

-If you use a single 30 amp CDR battery like the LG HB6 you are good up to 90 watts; with a pair of 30 amp CDR batteries you could safely do 180 watts.​

WATTAGE PER SINGLE BATTERY on REGULATED MOD:
(Total wattage doubles using 2 batteries; Triples using 3 batteries.)

Up to 45W:

Samsung 18650 30Q, 3000 mah 15 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC6 3000mAh 15 amp CDR

​

Up to 60W:

LG 18650HG2 3000mah 20 amp CDR

LG 18650HE4 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-25R, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Sanyo UR18650NSX, 2500 mah 20 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC5, 2600 mah 20 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC4, 2100 mah 23 amp CDR

AW 18650 3000 mah 20 amp CDR

Up to 75W:

LG 18650 HD4 2100 mah 25 amp CDR

LG 18650 HD2 2000 mah 25 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-24S, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR

Sony 18650VTC5A, 2500 mah 25 amp CDR

Up to 90W:

LG18650HB6 1500mah 30 amp CDR

LG18650HB2 1500mAh 30 amp CDR

LG18650HB4 1500mAh 30 amp CDR

Samsung 18650-20S 2000mah 30 amp CDR

​

 

[Hawise]

@Ron Mallonee, I think your charger lets you check both voltage and internal resistance. Could you check the voltage when they're discharged and also check the resistance? Your batteries do seem to be deteriorating in a way I wouldn't expect. Also, there's the question I probably should have started with: are you quite sure you're not vaping any more than you were?

 

[Ron Mallonee]

Thanks all for your feedback. One piece of the puzzle I didn’t mention was that I tend to take long puffs. On wattage I had the puff length set to 5 seconds, on curves the puff duration is 6 seconds and can’t be changed. So after reading all the feedback I double checked the batteries I ordered from illumn.com and they are the Sony vtc5a batteries so I feel like I have the correct batteries. So I reacessed my charging and puffing. As I said earlier in this post, I tend towards long draws. Since I can’t modify the duration on a curve I have switched to mostly vaping on wattage and have the puff duration set to 3 seconds. I do like warm vapor so I have the wattage set between 80-95watts but with the short puff duration I think I am putting an overall smaller load on the batteries. Now the charging. This is likely the biggest contributor to my poor battery performance. For the last 3 days, as soon as or soon after I hit the yellow on my batteries I swap them out. I am getting the same 1/2 day of vaping from a set of batteries but they are typically only down to 33% rather than 3-5%. Of course they charge in a shorter period of time (I charge at .5amp) and stay in the green longer.
So thanks to the thought provoking advice from the members here. I have kept what I have and tweeked MY habits for the better! (No pun intended) Thanks all!

 

[Ron Mallonee]

@Ron Mallonee, I think your charger lets you check both voltage and internal resistance. Could you check the voltage when they're discharged and also check the resistance? Your batteries do seem to be deteriorating in a way I wouldn't expect. Also, there's the question I probably should have started with: are you quite sure you're not vaping any more than you were?

I will measure the voltage before charging and post

 

[DaveP]

I will measure the voltage before charging and post

Baditude's suggestions for the right cells is (as always) spot on. For the type of vaping you are doing you need high amp cells to remain safe. MAH ratings tell you how long you can vape, but the amperage rating determines how high you can go in terms of current handling capacity. It's a trade-off between vape time and safe current levels. You don't want to push the amp limit down to get higher MAH ratings.

As you can see from the wattage ranges Baditude posted, as the amperage rises, the MAH rating (vape time) falls. If you want longer vape times from a cell, lower your wattage and go to higher VG juice to create more vapor.

 

[Ron Mallonee]

@Ron Mallonee, I think your charger lets you check both voltage and internal resistance. Could you check the voltage when they're discharged and also check the resistance? Your batteries do seem to be deteriorating in a way I wouldn't expect. Also, there's the question I probably should have started with: are you quite sure you're not vaping any more than you were?

I measured the voltage on 2 batteries discharged down to 32% and they both measured 3.67v and 10mohm resistance. I am at 158 puffs for the day and will likely puff 15-20 more puffs before I head to bad.

 

[Barkuti]

Without any intention of being judgmental, where does those battery over discharging fears come from? I keep hearing about it but I think lots of folks may be disinformed.
Typical original equipment manufacturer end of discharge cut-off value is 2.5V, with 2V being cited sometimes (examples: LG HE2 and Murata/Sony VTC6). Yes, 2.5V. Even for “high-voltage” laptop cells like the Samsung ICR18650-30B the figure is 2.75V, and it has to do with the maximum discharge voltage which allows the cell to deliver most of its energy/capacity at its highest official spec current rating. If you discharge the cell to the usual manufacturer cut-off point (2.5V) and let it dwell there for some time nothing “wrong” will happen to the cell, while its actual no load voltage will dwell well above 3V. Related information here: How far can LiIon be discharged? @ lygte-info.dk
However, keeping cells charged near or at their maximum voltage is known to accelerate their aging. More information here: BU-808: How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries @ Battery University

Cheers