2nd hand nicotine from vaping?
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OMG!
Does everyone have to walk on eggshells just to post a question? It was A QUESTION!!!! Could have been phrased better, but everyone should just go take a chill pill or check nic levels. Sheesh! Besides, the studies fall on the side of the vapers so there's no need to bash anyone...just quote the facts.
And, OP, my answer is that although I don't dispute it, it's negligible. Same with eating certain vegetables. A lot of it gets destroyed by heat, then some absorbed, and the rest diluted and or trapped in the vapor that falls to the ground. Studies indicate that 2nd exposure is almost nonexistent. See previous posts with real data and feel free to ignore snide comments.
Does everyone have to walk on eggshells just to post a question? It was A QUESTION!!!! Could have been phrased better, but everyone should just go take a chill pill or check nic levels. Sheesh! Besides, the studies fall on the side of the vapers so there's no need to bash anyone...just quote the facts.
And, OP, my answer is that although I don't dispute it, it's negligible. Same with eating certain vegetables. A lot of it gets destroyed by heat, then some absorbed, and the rest diluted and or trapped in the vapor that falls to the ground. Studies indicate that 2nd exposure is almost nonexistent. See previous posts with real data and feel free to ignore snide comments.
Thanks Atty, I believe you are spot on here. I happen to know the OP personally and he is a new vapor and I believe he was truly asking a question as a newbie who has not had the benefit of the vast information available to those of us who have been on the site and active for a while. We have had a conversation or two about this subject face to face and I am sure he is just looking for more information.
This thread kind of split in to two topics, the original second hand question and the second question about it's appropriateness of vaping in certain places. To the first question, as stated, the amount of nicotine or any other known toxic substance in exhaled vapor is so negligible as to be, for all practical purposes, non existent.
To the second issue. I feel it is entirely inappropriate to sit in a meeting blowing clouds. Not because it is unhealthy for any one but rather for the same reason it is inappropriate to sit there and do jumping jacks. It is distracting. There is no need for it and it takes away from the purpose of the meeting. If you absolutely, positively cannot go 30 minutes or a whole hour without a vape then you can excuse yourself rather than disrupt the meeting. As was mentioned earlier, these meeting should be about their stated purpose, not about blowing clouds.
And in the famous words of Forest Gump: " that's all I have to say about that"
This thread kind of split in to two topics, the original second hand question and the second question about it's appropriateness of vaping in certain places. To the first question, as stated, the amount of nicotine or any other known toxic substance in exhaled vapor is so negligible as to be, for all practical purposes, non existent.
To the second issue. I feel it is entirely inappropriate to sit in a meeting blowing clouds. Not because it is unhealthy for any one but rather for the same reason it is inappropriate to sit there and do jumping jacks. It is distracting. There is no need for it and it takes away from the purpose of the meeting. If you absolutely, positively cannot go 30 minutes or a whole hour without a vape then you can excuse yourself rather than disrupt the meeting. As was mentioned earlier, these meeting should be about their stated purpose, not about blowing clouds.
And in the famous words of Forest Gump: " that's all I have to say about that"
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Thank you AttyPops. I was thinking the same thing as I was reading the posts here. The OP is looking for information. IMO that's a good thing and should be encouraged. If everyone who does not know about vaping did this we would have a much easier time getting the truth out there.
chebird, there were three links to studies posted. Read those and I believe you will understand that there is no significant nicotine in second hand vapor and no harm from second hand vapor.
Weather the group feels it's better to allow vaping in session or not is a different issue, but you now at least know there are no health or addiction risks involved.
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Capt. Shay, I don't know if you have been to any of these meetings, but they are not "typical" meetings. These meetings deal with a very specific and life threatening condition. While each meeting is autonomous and free to set their own policy, it is generally accepted that you don't make an outside issue the focus of the meeting.
It would be interesting to see how many of the people in that meeting who are vaping or opposed to vaping actually bother to go to the business meeting. This is where this would need to be discussed and a policy determined.
Many newcomers to these meetings may be in crisis, and it would be a shame that they are admonished because they need to vape to prevent them from doing something else. Especially if those who are complaining have some time under their belts, and are simply fostering a resentment
On the other hand, if the vapers are regular attendees, I would also pull the cloud blowers aside and remind them that the purpose of the meeting is not to blow clouds and ask them to be more discreet.
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I would like to apologize to chebird for the group. Before I read this post I was happy to be a member, but if a new member (20 posts) is accused of having an agenda for asking a simple question about second hand vapor, I'm not so sure I feel that way anymore. If anyone has an agenda it's those who jump all over someone and have no patience for someone who has questions about a behavior that they are involved in. To wonder about second hand vaper is not a unreasonable thing to question This is just shameful.
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That settles it. I will henceforth vape near the stupid in an effort to increase the general cognitive function of the surrounding humans. LOL Perhaps I will start with WalMart. =P
Edit: btw, to the OP. I don't vape in meetings for the same reason I don't eat during meetings. It's not unsafe but it is tacky and rude. Unless lunch is provided for all, that is.
Oh an one last thing, ok maybe two....reading earlier.... a self help meeting, I would think could be more lax than a business meeting (which is what I was referring to). And the second, you can ask anything you want; ignore dissenters. Luckily there are damn few intolerant folks here.
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This. I don't eat, vape, or pick my nose in meetings for the simple fact that it's rude.
There have been exceptions. In a meeting where smoking is allowed, I'll make no bones about vaping (for obvious reasons). But I'm not one of those people who feels I have the right to engage in any personal habit I wish in public at any time.
The OP presented a valid question and i was greatly informed by the responses here. I read the entire thread because i didn't know the answer even though i have been vaping for 2 years. thanks for bringing it up OP
I have indeed attended a couple of those meetings (I like the coffee). I have yet to hear the words "I need to vape or I am going to do something else". If I did, I believe that person would need a lot more than a meeting.
When they banned smoking people didn't stop seeking help from these groups and not allowing vaping isn't going to stop people either. Allowing it may however turn some people off who are offended by it (rightfully or not). There are a lot more people who Don't vape than those who do and they should not be made to feel uncomfortable.
As you say, each group makes it's own rule and some times the rules are set by the owners of the meeting place. But, I would caution you on thinking that those who don't wish to see vaping in a meeting are all resentment fostering anti-vapors. Some of the people responsible for these rules being made just want to see the subject of the meeting remain the focus. Some of these people may not even be anti-vapors. Some of them may even be vapors themselves. Heck, some of them may even post on this web site, in this very topic, right now.
OP, simply put, the nic molecule is heavier than the vapor, or air, it is carried in. The nic molecules, that actually survive past the coil heat, are typically absorbed because they "fall out" of the vapor while being inhaled. For the extremely small percentage that might be exhaled, the molecules simply drop out of the air to the ground. Unless a vapor has the gall to blow their clouds directly into another's face, there is little to no chance of second hand nic exposure. Even then, exposure would be negligible. There are a myriad number of studies of second hand smoke that supports this fact. The danger of second hand smoke has never been from the nicotine it contains, but the 3-5,000 toxic chemicals it contains. The dangers of second hand exposure from composite vaping vapors have not been well studied. However, each individual component of e-liquid have been extensively studied and are generally thought to be safe for acute and second hand exposures.
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Obviously you are not on our side. Yours is a very specious argument and clearly anti-vaping propaganda.
Is that professional-level sarcasm...?
Because really, without a smiley, it's impossible to tell.
OP: There are a few bitter, nasty trolls on this site, who will jump on anyone for asking 'the wrong questions' or holding 'the wrong opinions'. Ignore them, and you'll do fine.
Most here are in agreement that very, very little nic is in the exhaled vapor. That question was answered. I would like to hear what the OP thinks now that he has his answer. If it is a matter of someone vaping profusely, I like the idea of taking said person aside and discuss what the ramifications of said behavior. Please let us know what happens. I for one would like to hear the outcome.
Did you read the whole thread? If not, someone posted that they personally knew the poster and the OP was a new vaper. They had discussions about this and the OP is really just trying to find out if second hand vapor is an issue. If someone told me no, I would like to get second and third+ opinions myself.
Not everyone is an enemy
Another thing that might have been missed (I haven't checked all the links, but I assume they're mostly about nicotine concentration in vapour), is that nicotine in itself is increasingly reckoned to be not especially addictive, and not especially harmful to direct users at normal doses.
Which isn't to say you can't become addicted to it, or do yourself an injury with it...
But passively, the health concerns are probably closer to minutely caffeinated steam coming from coffee than they are to cigarette smoke.
Which isn't to say you can't become addicted to it, or do yourself an injury with it...
But passively, the health concerns are probably closer to minutely caffeinated steam coming from coffee than they are to cigarette smoke.
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I have indeed attended a couple of those meetings (I like the coffee). I have yet to hear the words "I need to vape or I am going to do something else". If I did, I believe that person would need a lot more than a meeting.
When they banned smoking people didn't stop seeking help from these groups and not allowing vaping isn't going to stop people either. Allowing it may however turn some people off who are offended by it (rightfully or not). There are a lot more people who Don't vape than those who do and they should not be made to feel uncomfortable.
As you say, each group makes it's own rule and some times the rules are set by the owners of the meeting place. But, I would caution you on thinking that those who don't wish to see vaping in a meeting are all resentment fostering anti-vapors. Some of the people responsible for these rules being made just want to see the subject of the meeting remain the focus. Some of these people may not even be anti-vapors. Some of them may even be vapors themselves. Heck, some of them may even post on this web site, in this very topic, right now.
You and I are actually in agreement. Vaping is not the focus of the meeting. And as with anything, if it becomes an issue it should be brought up during the business meeting, dealt with, and then end of story.
I guess what riled me up is that a SMOKER brings up the issue of second hand vape......That to me screams resentment.
I have wondered about this as well. As others have mentioned there are studies out that show the amount of nic in second-hand vapor is negligable . .BUT . .all those studies were paid for by pro e-cig groups. Until there are a number of independant studies there will have to be some doubt in my mind. But the doubt is small . .I, for the most part, act as if the nic is negligable . but if somebody were to confront me about it I would stop short of telling them it's "absolutely 100% safe" because . .even though i think it is. .I can't really prove it to my own satisfaction (yet).
Who's going to pay for those 'independent' studies? They're a myth - since BT, BP and various governments have their own agendas about e-cigarettes, any studies financed by them are liable to (and in some cases have proven to) be biased.
So much pressure is being applied to regulate e-cigs as medical devices or as strictly as tobacco itself that the e-cig industry bodies would be fools to lie about or bias test results.
Meanwhile, whilst you're waiting for those mythical independent studies, governments are rapidly taking away your right to vape when and where you want to.
Nobody will ever be able to prove anything is 100% safe - if you're waiting for someone to declare e-cigs safe, you're going to be waiting a long time - use your own judgement - do some reading - then make up your own mind.
The Drexel study was done by an independent unbiased professor that had no ties to the vaping community. He took all the studies, even those that the FDA had done, interpreted the data to come to the conclusion that he came up with. CASAA deliberately chose him because he was neither for, nor against e-cigs. They knew that if he was biased towards vaping, the ANTZ would have a field day with the study.
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