Thanks mogur - these tally with your earlier figures. So 4% increase - it's detectable
And no changes needed to atomizer with my design; no extra sensor connection needed. The control is all in the 'battery'/power supply.
A circuit for temperature control of the atomizer coil
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And no changes needed to atomizer with my design; no extra sensor connection needed. The control is all in the 'battery'/power supply.
The following chart only looks simple, but it was a real pain to construct. Anyway, hope it helps, kina. Kanthal 52 and 70 have as large a temperature coefficient as pure tungsten, but the resistance is so low that smaller diameter and/or longer wires would be needed. The thermal expansion of K52 looks low enough to possibly overcome the coil failures due to wire contraction over hardened juice residue. Could be something to look at, at least.
Stainless or NiCr40 might be a good compromise if you need a larger resistance change than NiCr60 affords, and don't want to deal with tiny wires.
Kanthal A looks interesting to me for wiring up an over-clocked atomizer- larger surface area at the same temp. Or maybe a smaller surface area coil would heat quicker/hotter. I think some bench runs are in order.
I'm ordering up a half dozen different sizes/types tomorrow, let me know if you want to try any of these, I could snip off a few feet.
Stainless or NiCr40 might be a good compromise if you need a larger resistance change than NiCr60 affords, and don't want to deal with tiny wires.
Kanthal A looks interesting to me for wiring up an over-clocked atomizer- larger surface area at the same temp. Or maybe a smaller surface area coil would heat quicker/hotter. I think some bench runs are in order.
I'm ordering up a half dozen different sizes/types tomorrow, let me know if you want to try any of these, I could snip off a few feet.
You are really looking into this very actively mogur; impressed!
I was trying to test the resistance of the metal foam today but my multimeter battery is too flat
Yes, coefficient of expansion would be an interesting factor. Doubt that wire any thinner than nichrome 60 would be practical though.
Tried heating the coil submerged - nogo. But if submerged then withdrawn, only takes a second or two to start producing fog. Out of curiosity I used 'facial toner' whch is about 60% water and 40% PG and to my surprise the col cleaned up after just a few tests; wasn't expecting that, thoug I did let it go red-hot a couple of times but only briefly.
Now we have mods with far higher capacity batteries, I think it worth consdering the possibility of slightly beefier coils with enhanced performance.
Flattening the coil to get a wider target for the juice droplets might be useful too.
Flattening the coil to get a wider target for the juice droplets might be useful too.
Mogur, whats your plan to attach the wire to the leads to create an atomizer, with the temperatures atomizers are generating won't most solder simply melt?
Sorry I missed this post until now. I'm waiting on a resistance wire shipment right now, some nichrome, balco, kanthal, nickel, and ribbon, so I will gain a little experience with that soon, and will post. As I understand it, if the coil wire is non-solderable, you just physically 'hook and crimp' the two wires together, and blob the solder around the copper lead, trapping the non-solderable wire within that glob. There are plating and etching options, also, to get the coil wire solderable. I think the temperature at the solder joint will be substantially below the melting point of solder, but I really don't know at this point.
With a thermocouple meter, a variable power supply, and coil wires coming my way, I am just biding my time (and googling my ... off), grin.
I was trying to test the resistance of the metal foam today but my multimeter battery is too flat
I get .1 ohm across 1" x .125" x .015" dry nickel foam, +/-.05 ohm.
hey i used to make thermocouples when i did cold structual testing ( Hughes aircraft, Space and communcation div. i broke spacecraft, missles and f18 wings) by getting a 120 volt reostate, a carboon core from a d sized battey and by attching one end of the output to the carbon and the other to a alligtor clip, twist the two wires to be welded, pinch in the clip and touch to the carbon, adjusting reostate down till i got a little or big ball of welded metal, the reostate was about ten pounds and whent<?> from o volts to 160 volts.
Thanks mogur. My meter batt. not replaced yet as haven't had chance to go out. Was also wondering about the resistance of the juice (say 5mm gap) and also of the deposit material (if you have a nice chunk to examine).
ps: some interesting results by Exogenesis on the atomiser deconstruction thread.
Damn, I gave up my variac when I retired, and that's probably a good thing- I shouldn't be playing with 160vac in my senility.
Going out, but will check that later, thanks. No, I wish I had saved my chunk of glazed wick material, but didn't. Will also check resistance of the juice when I get back.
thanks mogur my mind is what i miss most to. variac was on a big plate on side of it.
anyway of making one with a light dimmer?
anyway of making one with a light dimmer?
Good work !
Just touching a deposit coated coil would give an idea if the deposit is at all conductive (due to tin content).
Off to dreamland. Back tomorrow ...
Hehe, I'm no EE, but that depends on the application. Dimmers usually chop the duty cycle with triacs. That will give you less rms volts for things like resistive lamps, but they don't cut the peak voltage. To weld, I simply don't know. That is a current thing, I think, and our coils are current things, as well. So, I wouldn't encourage you to try it, but....
well im going to try my hand at making a atm soon, and since may reading everthing here at ECF do take a lot of my time, i am collecting things to use and info to use it with.
Well, most permanent (sorta) atomizers put their coil in a ceramic bucket with wicked (capillaried) fluid in front of it and a coil wound around an absorbent core. The guys that designed this are not idiots, they are probably way beyond me. But they are constrained to build something that works and is disposable. It's Shick vs Gillette. We are Shick. We want something that works better and lasts longer.
Their solution to atomizers that crap out is to build an even cheezier one that can be thrown out with every cartridge. And it doesn't matter if it burns the cartridge wick. Our attack has to be a non-disposable atomizer that lasts and doesn't burn. We are probably launching against windmills, but hey, it's fun.
Their solution to atomizers that crap out is to build an even cheezier one that can be thrown out with every cartridge. And it doesn't matter if it burns the cartridge wick. Our attack has to be a non-disposable atomizer that lasts and doesn't burn. We are probably launching against windmills, but hey, it's fun.
I get about .85 megaohms with the electrodes almost touching in e juice. Goes up to 3 megs at about a cm apart. Doesn't seem conductive enough to affect the heater circuit at all. But that is just this one type of juice. It's Marlboro flavor, and can't remember where I got it.
The melted/charred core and/or juice residue probably doesn't have much conductivity either. Glass is one of the best insulators, and it doesn't seem likely that juice would become conductive when the volatiles evaporate.
The melted/charred core and/or juice residue probably doesn't have much conductivity either. Glass is one of the best insulators, and it doesn't seem likely that juice would become conductive when the volatiles evaporate.
Not sure if you are still watching this thread but I was also thinking of leveraging the temperature coefficient in this way and this sounds like a really clever solution. Do you still have the schematic? - it is no longer showing.
I would expect this to have some advantage in that it should adapt to the amount of juice saturation, especially with cartomizers where the amount of liquid against the coil is perhaps less constant. I.e. when there's a lot of juice against the coil it should need more power to come up to temperature as the heat is being sinked away quicker.
Have you thought of capturing the voltage drop at the first instant the atty is fired, and then using that as your reference (modulo some target V drop) for the duration of the vape? I might use a microcontroller but maybe you could do that too in analog land, eg with a fet and capacitor to "save" the reference. This would mean you wouldn't have to calibrate for a particular atty, and it should keep working even if the coil resistance drifts over its lifetime.
Are you still using this circuit? Would like to know how it's working and if you think this is worth pursuing.
I would expect this to have some advantage in that it should adapt to the amount of juice saturation, especially with cartomizers where the amount of liquid against the coil is perhaps less constant. I.e. when there's a lot of juice against the coil it should need more power to come up to temperature as the heat is being sinked away quicker.
Have you thought of capturing the voltage drop at the first instant the atty is fired, and then using that as your reference (modulo some target V drop) for the duration of the vape? I might use a microcontroller but maybe you could do that too in analog land, eg with a fet and capacitor to "save" the reference. This would mean you wouldn't have to calibrate for a particular atty, and it should keep working even if the coil resistance drifts over its lifetime.
Are you still using this circuit? Would like to know how it's working and if you think this is worth pursuing.
I would love to see the circuit as well. This is the first I have seen this thread and I would like to play with the idea.
Does anyone have this saved and could you please share?
Regards
Does anyone have this saved and could you please share?
Regards
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