Add Flavor / Nic after Steep

[NoFuture]

Hello,

I'm in the middle of experiment about flavor level / flavor mixture / nic level.

I would know if you think it's the same or at least 95% the same to do:

1]
A) Mix VG + Flavor + Nic ==> Steep ==> Test the result
vs
B) Mix VG + Flavor ==> Steep ==> Test the TH/Taste Ratio ==> Add Nic ==> Steep ==> Test the TH/Taste Ratio

2]
A) Mix VG + All Flavor ==> Steep ==> Test the Flavors
vs
B) Mix VG + Some Flavor ==> Steep ==> Test the Flavors ==> Add other Flavor ==> Steep ==> Test the result

Case 1]
A)If the TH is too high or the nic ruin the taste throw it
b)If the TH/Nic dose isn't enoug, then add 0.5mg/ml more

Case 2]
A)If the mix isn't good enough, throw it
B)If there's something missing, add it, try different variation, if it's okay, keep it that way and maybe use a part of the mix to add something to see if it can be better

I ask this because I've made this:

VG + Orange Cream 8%+ Nic 5mg/ml - 2h Steep in UC @ 55°C 40khz
Nice, but the taste wasn't present enough, nic seems to ruin the mix

Added 4% of Orange Cream- 1h Steep in UC @ 55°C 40khz
Nice, but it's more Orange-y than Orange Cream, nic still ruin the taste

Added 3% of Vanilla Swirl- 1h Steep in UC @ 55°C 40khz
Not bad, but it was better before I guess, I don't know if it's because I don't like the Vanilla Swirl in this mix or because it wasn't the same than adding all the flavor at the same time.


Well I would like the point of view to you experimented diy-ers.

Thanks,
Best regards

 

[Dixie1954]

Whose nic are you using? I am assuming that the flavorings are TFA/TPA? If I am wrong then let me know. According to this site http://www.v-ecigs.com/tfa-flavor-percentage-recommendations/ TFA Orange Cream % stand alone is 5-10% and Vanilla Swirl % is 10%. If I were to mix them I would use half of what I used stand alone for the Orange Cream and about 1/3rd to half of the Vanilla Swirl I used stand alone. Did you try the Vanilla Cream stand alone to see if you liked it and at what %? After I know at what % I like a flavoring then I make mixes. I add all my stuff together at the same time - others may do it differently.

 

[serenity21899]

Due to allergies, I have to try each flavor first, before I combine them. I do so in 10ml batches. I add nic to these because sometimes nic does change the taste of the final product a bit. I also have found a flavor or 2 I simply cannot vape, and threw out. I always buy the smallest bottle of flavoring until I decide if I like it.

At this point I will mix up 10ml of whatever mix I am testing, with nic. If I find it needs a little tweaking, I will do so with a new 10ml test. If it's truly unvapable, I may try to fix it by adding something to my original mix.

Using the OPs scenario, I would have already figured out if I liked the flavors or not, and it would just be a matter of adjusting the percentages of each flavor.

I vape high pg, again due to allergies, so it's hard for me to help someone who is using higher vg. I was taught not to use above 20% total flavor. The orange cream I mix is equal parts of orange and sweet cream, at 10% each. However, my orange is 5% orange and 5% blood orange. The blood orange brought out the orange flavor a bit more. I like my juice to taste more like the fruit, and use the cream to smooth it out and add a bit of sweetness.

Whatever method you use, take notes, especially of amounts, so you can replicate it later.

ETA: Flavors I used are all FW, which I believe are not as strong as TPA.

 

[Alter]

If your assuming the nic is ruining the mix then I would make a unflavored juice, taste then add the nic and taste again after a few days for the nic to incorporate. You could very well have bad, peppery nic, it does happen that some vendors and consumers could mishandle nic and degrade it. I have issues with heat steeping any of my liquids other than warming up my VG to loosen it up a bit and help blend the flavors better.

 

[dannyv45]

If your experiencing peppery harsh hits it's likely the NIC. Steeping is not going to help this so testing via steeping is really a waste of time. Look at my blog on adjusting and testing for peppery NIC. The likely outcome will be needing to search for a smoother NIC.

https://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/f...educe-that-peppery-harsh-nicotine-taste.6955/

The most important thing about mixing is getting the base tasting right. If the base is not right nothing you mix will come out right.

As far as flavoring goes first get the base tasting right then make a test sample of each flavor individually and adjust it until each individual flavor tastes good to you.

Only after you know what each individual flavor taste like and what the percentages are to get it there will you be ready for combining flavors.

 

[NoFuture]

I'm using Nicvape's Nicotine, from what I've read it's one of the best.

I've already looked at this list of recommandation percentage / flavor but I guess I'm on the higher end of the % spectrum.
I don't have a lot of taste, most people (almost all in fact...) can't even eat when I do the cooking, they are crying and turning red while eating (yes I like strong perperocini and very spicy food...).
And I don't use PG in my mix, so with 15% flavoring + 5% Nicotine (100mg/ml) I'm around 80% VG.

Yes I use TFA flavors only.

I also take note on a daily basis.

I have issues with heat steeping any of my liquids

I use a UC @55°C 40khz ~2-4h depending on the flavor so there shouldn't be any problem since it's as liquid as the PG at this temperature.
Either I didn't understood or you said that you had problem when heating e-liquid ? (I do the mix @55°C which is 10°C lower than the 0.25%/h degradation of nicotine in the worst case)

I use USP / Ph EUR 99.5% VG from drugstore, I never vaped it alone I guess I should try your method danny

Note:
I received a TC box today and I noticed 2 things.
It's less harsh than with my copper mod.
The flavors are more muted than with my copper mod.
Overall vape quality is slightly inferior than the copper mod, vape is too cold for me I guess.
EDIT:
I've made a 4 twisted 32G @ 0.08 and it's hot enough, and it's less harsh when hotter, the taste is better also, so I guess I have to do more test with the TC because it seems as good as the mech now.

I have to make further test because I don't get a consistent effect.
Yesterday it was super harsh today it's way less but the taste seems less present.
I also noticed that if I drink a bit of water before I take a hit it's smoother, well I guess I have to analyze this weird behavior.

But well my questions were more about the procedure phase of mixing and the consequence on the taste, I'm still interested if some of you made this kind of A / B testing.

Thanks for all your answers guys.

 

[NoFuture]

I've tested the VG, it's very good, almost no taste at all. I think the problem is the nicotine level. I've made a batch @ 3mg to see if it's better.

Thanks.

 

[satchvai]

Try doing a natural steep and see if the speed steeping is muting the flavor.

 

[Cam775]

I've read somewhere, can't remember where now, that if you mix your flavors first with your pg and incorporate/shake, then add vg and nic, your flavors will mix together better and lessen the steeping time needed. The theory was that flavors attach better to pg than vg (my nic is vg based). I haven't tried this method yet because I mixed a large bottle of my pg/vg base and have been using it that way. After this large bottle of my base mix is used up I'd planned to try the flavors+pg first method to see if there's any difference.

Maybe try it that way with a natural steep, and hopefully the waiting time won't be so long to see if it is the speed steep that's muting?