***California Assembly bill to BAN SHIPMENT OF E CIGARETTES TO ANYONE IN CALIFORNIA***
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Here in Michigan the internet purchasing or transporting from out of state of tobacco products (Not yet E-Cigs) has been around for a while. The state police have intercepted transgressors for quite a while from Ohio since taxes are much lower in the neighboring state. Yup it is all about money. Kind of interesting California lumped the Ecigs in from start.
I don't suggest that people go out of their way to be crude or abussive , but the idea of being POLITE to a bunch of corrupt,insane, totalitarian creeps doesn't sit well with me. I don't suggest being vulgar, but when I go to town hall meetings I make it clear to my represenative that they are bought and paid for.... corrupt and self serving, that the idea that they are there to serve the people is a ludicrous farce that only children and the simple minded swallow. I tell them i am not petitioning the state for my liberty it is my birthright, and that their authority over me is given to them through the barrel of a gun and not by my consent.Just so we understand each other.I refuse to help create the illusion or give approval to the lie, that the goverment is a somehow benevolent partner in the safegaurd of my liberty and well being.
When the people fear the goverment you have tyranny, when the goverment fears the people you have liberty.....Jefferson said somethng like that.
When the people fear the goverment you have tyranny, when the goverment fears the people you have liberty.....Jefferson said somethng like that.
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If one cannot reason through how a politician views the role of government in our lives, then they should abstain from voting.
I can't take credit for it. He first proposed this last year and I think his friend Vicki Mckenna (a radio talk show host and vaper) was the driving force behind it. CASAA is definitely supporting it.
It's a long shot though. Last year, when contacting my legislators, they basically responded "If they aren't trying to ban use, why do we need a law to keep people from banning use? I'd wait until it's actually an issue before passing pointless laws."
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I am not even halfway through reading the 500+ posts ITT, and am very pessimistic about us being able to stop AB1500.
The only possible work around for me is the one you suggest, only instead of an ECF buddy I will have online vendors send my orders to out of state family family members and have them re-ship them to me.
As far as I can tell this is entirely legal under AB1500:
"[h=6]119406.[/h] (a) It is unlawful for any person engaged in the business of selling or distributing electronic cigarettes (e-cigarettes) to ship or cause to be shipped any e-cigarettes to any person in this state who is not any of the following:"
Obviously my beloved sisters in WA, NC, DC are not engaged in the business of selling and distributing ecigs.
It's challenging to argue against that. But kinda sucks the wind out of the sails of desires for being proactive on these matters.
Fortunately, us consumer advocates can be that wind.
I disagree that it is all about the money. The $24MM Roger {MODERATED} claims AB1500 will raise is trivial compared to the billions that are being wasted on things like the Bullet Train boondogle.
Dickinson was a former Board member and President President of the Lung Association in Sacramento. AB1500 primarily promotes that anti-vaping agenda of the Lung Association whose very existence is threatened by vaping.
Vaping has the potential of completely eliminating smoking within the next ten years. When there are no longer any tobacco smokers there is not much reason for the the Lung Association to exist. Thousands of people will lose their jobs and millions in grants and donations will disappear.
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Which is why we should be proposing laws to give tax breaks, and to give ecigs priority in anti-smoking programs. Maybe require state-controlled airports and train stations etc to sell them and provide vaping areas, and fund it all with Tobacco Settlement Money.
A premature defense is not offense.
I'm sorry but your POV is naive. ALA will not cease to exist: there are many respiratory diseases that are not triggered by smoking.
So it is about money.
Notice the "and" in the top mission goal. It is supported by digging down deeper into their youth prevention programs. The goal of preventing kids from nicotine use is their HIGHEST goal, ahead of even tobacco-related lung disease and other lung diseases.
Can anybody say RWJF?
Our Mission and Goals - American Lung Association
Mission Goals
The American Lung Association will eliminate tobacco use and tobacco-related lung disease.
The American Lung Association will improve the air we breathe so it will not cause or worsen lung disease.
The American Lung Association will reduce the burden of lung disease on patients and their families.
So, they launched a new initiative in January:
Not On Tobacco (N-O-T) New Edition and New Website Help Teens Quit Tobacco - American Lung Association
When I go to the linked page, it is "Under Construction" so it leads to Cigarette-related ads!
Can anybody say RWJF?
Our Mission and Goals - American Lung Association
Mission Goals
The American Lung Association will eliminate tobacco use and tobacco-related lung disease.
The American Lung Association will improve the air we breathe so it will not cause or worsen lung disease.
The American Lung Association will reduce the burden of lung disease on patients and their families.
So, they launched a new initiative in January:
Not On Tobacco (N-O-T) New Edition and New Website Help Teens Quit Tobacco - American Lung Association
When I go to the linked page, it is "Under Construction" so it leads to Cigarette-related ads!
I feel safe in saying that the ALA will have plenty of deserving respiratory issues to deal with if and when tobacco goes away .. although $24 Mil in tax revenue is a trivial amount in the scheme of the Cali budgetary woes ..
There will always be tobacco products .. even if (this won't happen, but if it did) the USA actually made smoking / chewing / completely illegal to buy, sell or possess, it's a big World .. if the sale of current illicit substances cannot be stopped, there would be little hope in stopping the sale of analogs, etc ..
And as a side note, the USA was founded in many ways on tobacco .. and it was tobacco that introduced slavery to the Colonies .. we have a deep, ingrained tobacco history ..
This page is live for me and dates from 2009 .. and if you see cigarette related ads, that's Pay Per Click provided to you by Google or other search engines based on your own search history .. welcome to the Machine ..
This page is live for me and dates from 2009 .. and if you see cigarette related ads, that's Pay Per Click provided to you by Google or other search engines based on your own search history .. welcome to the Machine ..
Still funny. I'll hit ctl-refresh and see what more it says.
I'm surprised to get a pay-per-click on a live page, that's just weird.
The link in this sentence is still not live for me, still same page. I assume you clicked on the word "website"
Trained facilitators are leading N-O-T programs in schools across the country. To find out how to get involved with the N-O-T program in your community, visit: www DOT notontobacco DOT com.
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Yeah, it was very frustrating to get that answer.
But this year we can show that municipalities all over the country are prematurely passing no vaping ordinances and we want to prevent that happening at the local level all over the state. Vapers would have no idea if they can legally vape in a park or bar when traveling. Especially in areas where a lot of different municipalities are close together. Remember the confusion when Wauwatosa banned smoking before the state did? Tosa is in the middle of quite a few towns and close to other counties, so it gets traffic from those areas. I literally avoided Tosa restaurants and bars when I smoked for that reason. Now imagine if Milwaukee banned use but not Tosa, Shorewood, Whitefish Bay, Greenfield and West Allis!
I'm working on a Call To Action for it this week.
Also in the works in Wisconsin is a tobacco tax of 85% of retail that includes e-cigarettes. So pgivesoorly written that it includes them but no idea how the tax would apply (by the cartridge? by the milliliter?) and it bans single sales of tobacco, so we aren't certain how that would affect single, disposable e-cigs.
I'm glad I've been a good customer at my local tobacco and ecig store. I almost brought this bill up this morning when I was in the shop but something made me not, perhaps fear of burning what I see as my last bridge should the bill pass, but I'm assuming that if the shop is willing, they'd make and receive an order for me. I hope.
When I first started vaping one of my first suppliers was V4L. They used to send me a lot of business cards that explained what vaping was and how it was not smoke, and encouraged these to be distributed. I wish I'd given out ten thousand of those cards. I am finding that practically everyone I talk to thinks ecigs are bad somehow.
When I first started vaping one of my first suppliers was V4L. They used to send me a lot of business cards that explained what vaping was and how it was not smoke, and encouraged these to be distributed. I wish I'd given out ten thousand of those cards. I am finding that practically everyone I talk to thinks ecigs are bad somehow.
In some places it has been on the news that the current Surgeon General supports ecigs and THR. I can't quite find a quote to that effect, it appears it's buried near the end and implied rather than stated. The REAL supporter of THR from INSIDE the establishment seems to be
an Abrams person.
Nevertheless, if we can find the right links and quotes, my tired-of-listening-to-me cousin who really considers "studies" to be the same as public opinon and "evidence" to be the same as statements by prominent people, says that we should widely publicize this from the end of the SG's report as "evidence" that ecigs are good. (She, like most lawmakers, is a lawyer and in her world "evidence" is what people SAY!)
Needless to say, those of us more technically-oriented find that almost impossible to either understand or fight. But we should probably all ask our lawyers what to do to convince politicians, and ask our doctors to talk to our lawyers.
Surgeon General Adds New Risks To Long List Of Smoking's Harms : Shots - Health News : NPR
Unfortunately, Friedan is quoted a lot more than Abrams in this news article.
an Abrams person.
Nevertheless, if we can find the right links and quotes, my tired-of-listening-to-me cousin who really considers "studies" to be the same as public opinon and "evidence" to be the same as statements by prominent people, says that we should widely publicize this from the end of the SG's report as "evidence" that ecigs are good. (She, like most lawmakers, is a lawyer and in her world "evidence" is what people SAY!)
Needless to say, those of us more technically-oriented find that almost impossible to either understand or fight. But we should probably all ask our lawyers what to do to convince politicians, and ask our doctors to talk to our lawyers.
Surgeon General Adds New Risks To Long List Of Smoking's Harms : Shots - Health News : NPR
Unfortunately, Friedan is quoted a lot more than Abrams in this news article.
the ALA recieves far more than the measley 24MM that they do from ca. look how many "enviromental" origizations recieve staretling amounts of money from companies like Exxon, and company. Actually the first slaves introduced to work in the virginia tobbacco fields were indentured english slaves.
I just started reading the SG's report and I wasn't expecting anything positive in it.
http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/reports/50-years-of-progress/full-report.pdf
In the first few pages he seems to make no attempt to distinguish a difference from smoking tobbacco and vaping.
http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/reports/50-years-of-progress/full-report.pdf
In the first few pages he seems to make no attempt to distinguish a difference from smoking tobbacco and vaping.
In some places it has been on the news that the current Surgeon General supports ecigs and THR. I can't quite find a quote to that effect, it appears it's buried near the end and implied rather than stated. The REAL supporter of THR from INSIDE the establishment seems to be
an Abrams person.
Nevertheless, if we can find the right links and quotes, my tired-of-listening-to-me cousin who really considers "studies" to be the same as public opinon and "evidence" to be the same as statements by prominent people, says that we should widely publicize this from the end of the SG's report as "evidence" that ecigs are good. (She, like most lawmakers, is a lawyer and in her world "evidence" is what people SAY!)
Needless to say, those of us more technically-oriented find that almost impossible to either understand or fight. But we should probably all ask our lawyers what to do to convince politicians, and ask our doctors to talk to our lawyers.
Surgeon General Adds New Risks To Long List Of Smoking's Harms : Shots - Health News : NPR
Unfortunately, Friedan is quoted a lot more than Abrams in this news article.
The Surgeon General will never support nor advocate the use of E-cigs. Appointed for a four year term and Senate approved, the best we will get is a safer alternative. Or, more studies and millions of dollars spent will be needed before we can almost consider a decision
. As nicotine is listed as a poison, the SG will never fully support the use of.Richard Carmona (sp?) former SG at one point was or still is?) a member of Njoy's board - never heard much though.
At some point, we all must realize that Big Brother will feel the need to heavily regulate the use of ecigs. Get ready for newly formed oversight committees (=$$$$).
Surprisingly we havent even touched on the CDC and their role in the Federal Govt's orgy of testosterone fueled bureaucratic mess.
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