***California Assembly bill to BAN SHIPMENT OF E CIGARETTES TO ANYONE IN CALIFORNIA***

[rothenbj]

I believe that if a Package is Sig Reg, and there is No One to sign for it that it is held for an amount of time by the carrier so the person can pick it up at the Post Off, Fed-Ex/UPS Location, etc.

I'm not sure how long they will hold it before it gets sent back to the Person/Company who shipped it.

I believe they give you 3 notifications, but it's been a long time since I had one and the rules may have changed. I did find that I was wrong on the USPS and PACT. Originally, PACT shut USPS down in tobacco shipments. However in July 2011, USPS made changes that would allow a vendor to comply and ship using their services. That still wouldn't help with shipping costs internationally but it's a step.

OCD may have an answer here, but my gf has a business selling books. When they don't get delivered for one reason or another, they get sent back postage due. Now this is media mail which is somewhat cheaper, but it's an additional cost. She only gets a single notification as I recall (she's sleeping to verify), but after a few days it gets sent to an unclaimed area of USPS. What they do with the packages is unknown to me. One way or another it increases the cost of products sold and I'd expect adult sig required costs to be more than the $5+/- additional service charge.

And speaking of how $5 is not made for the convenience, I'd agree from my own perspective. However, for a lot of people that's a heavy charge, that's equivalent to a little less than a 6% sales tax on a $85 order. Adding $5.80 priority mail, small box charges you're at around 13% additional cost for internet delivery and your close to $100 order. However someone with a limited budget isn't going to be able to place many $85 orders. What if they need a couple bottles of e liquid, say 60ml of 24mg nicquid. That's a $16 order. $11 in shipping and adult sig doesn't look so inexpensive anymore.

 

[Berylanna]

Reading this while I am not one to advocate it.
Its time we pull the race card.
Light it up send emails, and just tell your story.........
I don't care if you are black white brown blue green or grizzly gray email them.
Contact | Legislative Black Caucus

I think this needs to be done (and get the LGBT folks in here too) but since the ANTZ have been pulling in witnesses from a Black Physicians Association or network of some type, I think it would be really really good if some minority people in particular can get their doctors to back them with a note or something. Also, got relatives in the medical industry?

The reason: you're being portrayed as victims of BT in the committee hearings. Need to show you are a VICTOR over BT.

Yes, it's true that telling how good ecigs are did not help IN COMMITTEE. But letting your own legislators know that this is victory for one of the groups Democrats want to be seen as supporting would be a big help IMO. And I'd also suggest putting a bug in their ear about the added costs of internet sales being a burden for low-income folks (even though minority and low-income are not the same thing, it's Politically Correct for you to claim knowledge of low-income burdens.)

My reasoning here is based upon seeing what happened when NORML chimed in on our side. It changed the definition of "politically correct" from "kill BT's ecigs" to "don't let it even get to a vote."

 

[soba1]

Sorry, but that won't work.

Well I beg to disagree, sending emails to have them remove the ecig portion cannot hurt.
A poem comes to mind part of it I remember.
"If you say you're beat then you already are, lifes battles don't always go to the stronger faster
man/woman sometimes lifes battles goes to the man who thinks he can"

Also if you point out the fact that Blacks and Native Americans are the smallest amount of
the population but represent the greatest amount of smokers per capita I guess you might call
it, might grab the attention.....................

By any peaceful means necessary

This is all I could find for Native American Caucus
asrmasiel@pechanga-nsn.gov
striplett@pechanga-nsn.gov

LGBT Caucus Email
john.m.cleary@gmail.com

denisepenn@aol.com

 

[Berylanna]

Well I beg to disagree, sending emails to have them remove the ecig portion cannot hurt.
A poem comes to mind part of it I remember.
"If you say you're beat then you already are, lifes battles don't always go to the stronger faster
man/woman sometimes lifes battles goes to the man who thinks he can"

Also if you point out the fact that Blacks and Native Americans are the smallest amount of
the population but represent the greatest amount of smokers per capita I guess you might call
it, might grab the attention.....................

By any peaceful means necessary

I think he meant that as I said, the argument that ecigs help quit smoking is not enough by itself because they lie and say they're already for that. I think it matters who is saying it helps them quit, though, due to the way the other side is arguing.

 

[soba1]

California Republican Assembly Contact
Scroll all the way to the bottom

Contact | California Republican Assembly

http://latinocaucus.legislature.ca.gov/send-email-latino-caucus

Also I believe if we concentrate our emails to the caucus we can reach more,
than us just contacting our individual legislators.
MAkes sense I hope......

 

[soba1]

I think he meant that as I said, the argument that ecigs help quit smoking is not enough by itself because they lie and say they're already for that. I think it matters who is saying it helps them quit, though, due to the way the other side is arguing.

Thanks and if I came off as an ahole I apologize...

 

[zoiDman]

...

And speaking of how $5 is not made for the convenience, I'd agree from my own perspective. However, for a lot of people that's a heavy charge, that's equivalent to a little less than a 6% sales tax on a $85 order. Adding $5.80 priority mail, small box charges you're at around 13% additional cost for internet delivery and your close to $100 order. However someone with a limited budget isn't going to be able to place many $85 orders. What if they need a couple bottles of e liquid, say 60ml of 24mg nicquid. That's a $16 order. $11 in shipping and adult sig doesn't look so inexpensive anymore.

I think if adding $5 to an Order is a Deal Breaker to Modifying a Bill like CA AB-1500, then we are ALL Doomed.

How much more is a Person going to Spend driving to B&M and buying Marked Up Merch? More than 5 Bucks?

 

[aikanae1]

One of the reasons the vaping industry has done so well is that instead of spending $150=$1500 per month on cigs, we are putting the money into ecig supplies. I think there is an assumption by gov't and industry that the playing field needs to be leveled and prices raised. They sold that story to "public health officials" in trade for their support (basically). Whatever, there's no no doubt the big winners of the bill would be BT, IMO, either their ecigs or their smokes. If you could show Dems how their vote benefits BT, that might prove embarrassing.

 

[Berylanna]

Thanks and if I came off as an ahole I apologize...

No, you came off as under-caffeinated.

 

[soba1]

No, you came off as under-caffeinated.

And to that I chant ohhhhhhhmmmmmmmmm lol

 

[Mohamed]

I understand correctly the Appropriations Committee analyzes the bill, they may but are not required to get an analysis from LAO. This is usually confidential but a member may request that they be made public.

I really dislike this. Every campaign season we hear about government becoming more transparent. What logical reason could they possibly have for keeping this a secret from the public. It's not like California or national security would be at risk.

 

[Nerone]

It dawned on me that there are CA companies who sell their products online.

I bought my first e-cigs in late November at a 7-11 in a gas station a couple of blocks from my apartment - they were from Smart Green Living.

I decided to call them up and see if they had heard about AB 1500. The guy I spoke to said they hadn't. He was alarmed and asked me to send him information, which I did this morning.

I have been frustrated trying to find out how many vapers there are in the US and particularly in CA. No one seems to know.

The man I spoke to provided me a crucial figure. He said based on their business experience there are at least 200,000 vapers in CA.

If am going to use that figure until someone comes up with something better.

 

[Nerone]

Jimmy Haffrey at ChurnMag makes some excellent points about AB 1500 in his article The Real Reason California Wants to Ban Online Tobacco and E-Cig Sales

One thing that struck me about Dickson's bill and press conference is that he provides no actual numbers for CA teenagers who buy vaping products over the internet.

Haffrey writes:

However, basing the new bill purely on preventing sales to minors seems like a stretch. A 2002 study found that only 1.4% of teenage smokers bought their last pack of cigarettes on the Internet. With the percentage of vapers being much smaller than the percentage of smokers, it looks like only a tiny fragment of teens are buying their e-cigs online.

As mentioned in the previous post I just wrote, a CA vendor gave me a figure of 200,000 in the state. There are at most 2900 teenagers buying vaping supplies on from the internet.

This does not justify the massive restraint of trade, increase of prices to ex-smokers, and the risk of driving ex-smokers back into smoking AB 1500 entails.

 

[zoiDman]

I went to some Pipe and Cigar forums to see if there was much Awareness about CA AB-1500.

There wasn't much.

And what Little there was, was the Obligatory Posts on Soap Boxes about "Tyranny / Loss of Freedoms" and "What will the People Republic of Kalifornia do next?".

No action though. Just Complaining.

Vapers need to Reach out more to Pipe and Cigar Smokers. I don't think we can Win being Isolated from them.

 

[zoiDman]

Jimmy Haffrey at ChurnMag makes some excellent points about AB 1500 in his article The Real Reason California Wants to Ban Online Tobacco and E-Cig Sales

One thing that struck me about Dickson's bill and press conference is that he provides no actual numbers for CA teenagers who buy vaping products over the internet.

...

Yeah... Here is another article

Goal of online tobacco sales ban: more state tax revenue | CalWatchDog

 

[tbaz]

The thing I do not get is how do these people get and stay in office? Not right or left but the issue because both sides have issues.

I understand this vape thing might upset many (me included) but it is the attitude of govermental control in all aspects of our life, often to get more money to get more control.... that needs to get curtailed.

We do not get to say it is OK to control that persons thing, it does not matter to me... then turn around and be suprised when they go after ecigs. It is the bigger side of this trend where the problems lies. MAYBE this one will get more people involved and wake up.

Pick one:

I guess it is all good until it impacts you...
You get what you vote for or in many case do not vote at all.
It all matters....someday. Today it is us.

TBAZ

 

[soba1]

Well I did call a gentleman by the name of Senator Wright, he seems too be the head of the Black Caucus.
I was very friendly with the secretary and got her name. I will definitely will be calling him next week I will not quit until
I speak with him directly. They can get taxes from other sources, like adding a couple of bucks
to bar drinks. Heck might even take a few drunk drivers off the road.
All we need is one ear one person to listen, just one.

 

[zoiDman]

... They can get taxes from other sources, ...

Here's a Novel Concept.

Instead of Try to Tax Everything, maybe they could Try and Cut some of the Pork out what they Spend Every Year?

Anyway... Good Job on getting in touch with Mr. Wright's office.

 

[patrickmurphy]

I would love to see actual stats of online purchasing. If only a tiny percentage of minors buy online and all the rest buy face to face - and there is so much concern for the kids not going through that Gateway To Tobacco, yet most have to buy their ecigs from where they're sold right alongside real cigarettes? ... it's some kind of miracle that teen smoking has been going down. Or is it?

Frankly, I'm not that far removed from my teens and the first ecig I ever saw was when I was in a tobacco shop buying my mother a carton of cigarettes. The ecigs caught my eye because they came in a pack that looked just like a pack of Marlboros. The guy behind the counter had just become a vapor and was gung ho. I bought those crappy (by today's standards but then like the newly invented wheel) e-cigarettes in the cool looking Marlboro case.* I had not been a smoker. I've only ever been a vaper. I have never had, nor will I ever have, a desire to smoke. Even now, hooked on nicotine, even if they were to outlaw ecigs entirely, I wouldn't smoke.

Someone asked about which companies are in California. I've been looking up the companies that I've been doing business with in hopes I could go get my stuff. Only one is in California: Alien Visions (south-south, south of LA, Palmdale. A 14 hour round trip). The rest are in Chicago (Vapor4Life), New Jersey (Halo), Backwoods Brew (New York. I think. But it's far from here. In the woods). I'm screwed for road trips.

* Nowadays, I wouldn't be caught dead with my Marlboro lookalikes. They are no longer cool. Stainless steel bats and see-through tanks are where it's at.

 

[Rimau]

This is the problem in California, all these are safe districts, we just can't get the idiots out of office. If it looks like the might have opposition, the state just redistricts to keep them safe. There is a politician, O' Connell (sic), that voted for several bills some time ago that over 90% of his constituents called and asked for him to vote against. His reasoning was "I voted for them because I thought it was in the peoples best interest". To hell with the will of the people, to him we are just too stupid to know what is good for us. And what is good for us is what he thinks, not what we want. I have been trying to get him out of office for years. Unfortunately he is in a "safe" district. Obviously he doesn't understand what the word "representational" means in the term "representational government" or even "representative" for that matter. It is because of him and others, that this bill will definitely pass, like it or not.

That is why the government wants to disarm it's citizens, they have reason to fear us because they are taking away our rights one at a time. "The road to tyranny is paved with power-hungry egotistical good intentions" (poetic license with wording).