There seems to be some expression of concern with cartomizers and their design involving burning of wadding materials and interior parts. I would assume this is due to the design complexity of the cartos and the atty being built into the single piece carto. This makes it harder to "inspect" the innards of the carto and know when to toss one that has reached end of life. I have not used a 3 piece PV like a Riva or Leo. Can I expect a higher degree of confidence in the integrity of the cart vs carto as it is separated from the atty and therefore less prone to burning? As of now I use a KR8 batt and cartos and I am always topping off and not boiling them out or using after 4-5 refills for fear of burning them. A lot of folks use cartos so is this fear unfounded using good common sense and not sucking them dry?
Cartos vs. carts and burning issues
- Thread starter Serendipity-nh
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Welcome Serendipity
There is a lot of information and a bit of controversy- check the technical threads. I use cartos with fillers about half the time- but only the ones with higher resistance- and am careful to top off and not try to push how many times i try to refill them. But, even with care, the filling can still burn a little. I dissect them at the end of their life (which for me is after 6-8 refills). Dissecting them has helped me get better at identifying how far i can push it- and feel confident that continuing to use them is an ok choice for me.
I use the filler-less cartos the other half of the time (CE2 and clearomizers). The filler-less cartos take some fiddling to tweak and fill, but to me it's less of a hassle than carts and/or dripping. If you're concerned, go ahead and try some of the other options, so you can make the decision that fits best for you.
There is a lot of information and a bit of controversy- check the technical threads. I use cartos with fillers about half the time- but only the ones with higher resistance- and am careful to top off and not try to push how many times i try to refill them. But, even with care, the filling can still burn a little. I dissect them at the end of their life (which for me is after 6-8 refills). Dissecting them has helped me get better at identifying how far i can push it- and feel confident that continuing to use them is an ok choice for me.
I use the filler-less cartos the other half of the time (CE2 and clearomizers). The filler-less cartos take some fiddling to tweak and fill, but to me it's less of a hassle than carts and/or dripping. If you're concerned, go ahead and try some of the other options, so you can make the decision that fits best for you.
I've never really addressed any concern about burning up cartos. They are not very complex, just the polyfill is wrapped inside the housing above the coil. Most of the time, they don't even burn the juice when they run low, they just drop in vapor production and I know it is time to refill. The "burn" most of us are talking about is the burning of the fluid and the nasty taste it leaves in your mouth.
Cart vs cartomizer is not really an equal comparison. Cartomizers produce a much warmer and thicker vapor then a cartridge along with a greater holding capacity. The price of 5 cartomizers usually equals 1 atty. With that in mind, the cartomizers become disposable, and the attys you need to keep clean. You will "burn" the juice more with a cartridge and atty then you will with a cartomizer. I think the entire industry is moving away from cartridges and going to cartomizers.
The filler less cartomizers: CE2R4s, are extremely finiky. I use them only in the MAP and Mini MAP tanks because they will easily burn fluid and wick badly.
Cart vs cartomizer is not really an equal comparison. Cartomizers produce a much warmer and thicker vapor then a cartridge along with a greater holding capacity. The price of 5 cartomizers usually equals 1 atty. With that in mind, the cartomizers become disposable, and the attys you need to keep clean. You will "burn" the juice more with a cartridge and atty then you will with a cartomizer. I think the entire industry is moving away from cartridges and going to cartomizers.
The filler less cartomizers: CE2R4s, are extremely finiky. I use them only in the MAP and Mini MAP tanks because they will easily burn fluid and wick badly.
I switch carts to blue foam stuffing which seems less likely to give that awful burning poly tasting of dry white stuffing. For 510 carts you can get precut blue foam for 510 at strictlyejuice.com
I think the blue foam wicks pretty well and it's super easy to clean with running water and pat dry and pop back in.
I think the blue foam wicks pretty well and it's super easy to clean with running water and pat dry and pop back in.
Welcome Serendipity,
I do not think that your fear is unfounded at all.
At one point in my vaping I was using cartos based on the Kr808 and often found myself with burnt filler which would irritate my sinuses a bit more, although I dont think I experienced any long term issues and they were often recoverable.
As CES mentioned, I too have moved to the CE2 and clearomizers almost exclusively for the reason that they are mainly fillerless, with little to burn other than the wick.
I can't say that I have experienced the wicking issues that Stownz has mentioned, but I use a straight PG mix which I believe would likely wick better. I use these with Ego and varient styles and get good vapor production.
I tend to vape dark flavors such as coffee and chocolate regularly which dont always allow me to immediately notice when fillers are starting to go, so for me this is essential.
In addition I find that as they hold 2Ml of juice (which is more than the tank system) and I am not bound to the drip and drive issues I used to have when using a standard atomizer.
Unfortunately the above mentioned cartos are usually for 510 threading.
There may be some KR808 versions out there and I know there are adapters, but when I tested these with my own adapter, the increased resistance lowered performance.
One final note regardling the clearomizers, is that they are subject to cracking if mishandled which allows the threads to spin and can disconnect the internal solder points.
I think this is a mild trade off from being able to actually SEE what the liquid level and type (at least to some extent as juice color is changed by flavoring.)
Dont mean to rant, just wanted to share my experiences.
-Ed
I do not think that your fear is unfounded at all.
At one point in my vaping I was using cartos based on the Kr808 and often found myself with burnt filler which would irritate my sinuses a bit more, although I dont think I experienced any long term issues and they were often recoverable.
As CES mentioned, I too have moved to the CE2 and clearomizers almost exclusively for the reason that they are mainly fillerless, with little to burn other than the wick.
I can't say that I have experienced the wicking issues that Stownz has mentioned, but I use a straight PG mix which I believe would likely wick better. I use these with Ego and varient styles and get good vapor production.
I tend to vape dark flavors such as coffee and chocolate regularly which dont always allow me to immediately notice when fillers are starting to go, so for me this is essential.
In addition I find that as they hold 2Ml of juice (which is more than the tank system) and I am not bound to the drip and drive issues I used to have when using a standard atomizer.
Unfortunately the above mentioned cartos are usually for 510 threading.
There may be some KR808 versions out there and I know there are adapters, but when I tested these with my own adapter, the increased resistance lowered performance.
One final note regardling the clearomizers, is that they are subject to cracking if mishandled which allows the threads to spin and can disconnect the internal solder points.
I think this is a mild trade off from being able to actually SEE what the liquid level and type (at least to some extent as juice color is changed by flavoring.)
Dont mean to rant, just wanted to share my experiences.
-Ed
Thanks for your advice posted above.. I did a disection of the carto and found the engineering interesting.. they do seem a bit fragile.. but it does seem, as pointed out above, that the trend is moving more to cartos then the 3 piece.. I do find this forum to be educational and thanks to all the vets willing to help us (me) new to vaping make educated choices
I think for the most part that sentence sums it up. Common sense should always overrule everything else. Same goes for cartridges and filler, don't let them get dry and most likely you won't be dealing with any burnt taste. If you've done what you can in a relatively short period of time to fix an initial burnt taste and it isn't working toss it and start with a new one. If you've been using the carto or atty for a while and it developes that burnt taste and you've made certain its not just because it recently got dry toss it and start with a new one. While I don't feel that I'm doing much of anything different today then I was when I started 6 months ago I know I really am because I rarely ever get a burnt taste from an atty or a carto. I think in the beginning I was afriad to overfill and today I realize that I can easily take care of any overfilling that I do but if I let that burnt taste get established there is no way I can or want to fix that problem other than tossing the atty or carto.
I've been able to clean some burnt ce2 carto's by cleaning out the cup and giving a good water rinse. I use a small dental pick and hard wood tooth picks to first remove some of the burnt(black) goop from the wick and cup. Follow that with water rinse by using a syrnige to force water thru the inner tube - can really get a lot of gunk out of the cup that way. After that, they have been reuseable for a few more refills.
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