I refuse to believe ECBlend's nic mg claims

[vapesmooth123]

The first brand to really make me like vaping was ecblend a few years ago. We were using eGo Twists and protank 1s back then. I don't like paying ~$9 for a bottle of juice I can make myself for $1.25, so I've mostly DIY'd since then. But from time to time, I'll still buy ECBlend because I really liked their Natural %100 VG line's organic banana (but now with a TFV8 cloud beast Vs the much smaller protank, the taste is way different, I don't really like it at all anymore, but that's besides the point, just pointing that out, because I used to obsess over trying to figure out what source they use for their Organic natural %100 VG banana and still haven't found it). I'm actually considering going back to an original Protank 1 or 2 or similar and a small cigar-sized mod because I used to smoke only about one cigarette a month and was happy vaping that way for most of a year (even with some DIY flavors and not just the ECBlend ones), but now with the cloud beast, I smoke cigarettes more often because apparently the clouds are too much even with the air flow all the way down and a tiny 510 tip.


So anyway, before I ramble too off topic, I am seriously doubting the nic levels that ECblend claims. Has anyone have any similar testimony? I have looked into this in that past thinking that I could just buy a cheap kit to test the nicotine content but I think the only accurate method would be to send it to a lab and pay about $150 or something. What I'm getting at is that I'm seriously thinking that ECBlend is doing a placebo affect on some of us - you know that juice taste better when the nic level is low, so I think they are adding only about half of what you order so that the juice tastes better.

I say this because I have been for the most part vaping straight %100VG with only about 3-6mg or FRESH nicotine in a %100VG base. And when I mix my own and vape %100VG flavorless 3-6mg, it tastes WAY harsher than ECBlends, PLUS ecblend has added flavor which should make it only harsher PLUS the flavor is Ethyl alcohol based which is notorious to be harsh/peppery. I have DIY'd with alcohol based flavors like nature's flavors and they can be extremely harsh and unvapable.

I have tried pretty much every single nicotine brand out there and keep it in the freezer. And I always note the first bottle I mix (before any small amount of air gets trapped in the bottle despite it being put directly in the freezer), - the first flavorless 3-6mg bottle I mix, I always notice how much harsher it is vs the ECBlend at 6mg (or 3). I tried vaporstech which is supposed to be smooth but noticed no difference vs all the other standard nic brands like RTS, wizrdlabs, myfreedom etc etc. The only brand I haven't tried is the top-of-the line Carolina extracts which is supposed to have never touched oxygen during the production which would therefore make it harsh - but I highly doubt a somewhat discount brand like ECBlend is using high end expensive nicotine.

Another thing, but not nearly as apparent as the harshness difference is that I also seem to get more clouds with the ECBlend even vs flavorless %100 VG (which SHOULD in theory give more clouds than something with ~%5-10 flavor/alcohol added).
I have not tried any VG brands though besides Essential Depot, but A) they are supposed to be one of the purest and best and b) I have read A LOT stating that it's all basically from the same source and not going to get a smoother or more cloudy vape from other brands. The only other brand I think I bought was the Walmart 'glycering' from Humco brand (which is the main manufacturer of VG anyway and most likely where all the repacakaged companies sell). I don't think it's the VG. All I know is I mix my own 3-6mg %100VG FLAVORLESS and it's MUCH harsher than 6mg ECBlend With EXTRA FLAVOR (and an alcohol-based flavor at that). So what gives?

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

It is the nicotine that makes the ejuice taste harsh, not the vg. Sometimes, vendors thin their vg to make it easier to mix and handle. These 2 things are what come to mind when reading your post.



eta
Wizard Labs sells a kit where you can determine the nicotine levels in your ejuice. Last I looked it was around $8 or so......no need to spend $ to sent to a lab.

 

[DaveP]

High PG juice provides more flavor and throat hit. High VG juice gives clouds, but lower flavor and throat hit for a given flavor percentage. I vape PG and sometimes VG base flavors. If it's alcohol based I'm usually not interested because of the throat hit.

It's the nic level and the PG percentage that ups the throat hit with PG and VG based juices.

Are you shaking the nicotine base bottle every time before you mix a batch a juice? The nic will settle and separate to some point when it sits idle for a while. Shake the heck out of it before you mix.

Nicotine has a specific gravity of 1.01. PG and VG have specific gravity of 1.038 and 1.26 respectively, so nic is lighter and will eventually float to the top. You could get a hot hit if you don't shake it up often enough. Stratification could take a while, but it never hurts to be safe, so shake every time.

All the info you need to know is here.
Botboy141 Guide to Mixing By Weight • r/DIY_eJuice

 

[ChelsB]

High PG juice provides more flavor and throat hit. High VG juice gives clouds, but lower flavor and throat hit for a given flavor percentage. I vape PG and sometimes VG base flavors. If it's alcohol based I'm usually not interested because of the throat hit.

It's the nic level and the PG percentage that ups the throat hit with PG and VG based juices.

Are you shaking the nicotine base bottle every time before you mix a batch a juice? The nic will settle and separate to some point when it sits idle for a while. Shake the heck out of it before you mix.

Nicotine has a specific gravity of 1.01. PG and VG have specific gravity of 1.038 and 1.26 respectively, so nic is lighter and will eventually float to the top. You could get a hot hit if you don't shake it up often enough. Stratification could take a while, but it never hurts to be safe, so shake every time.

All the info you need to know is here.
Botboy141 Guide to Mixing By Weight • r/DIY_eJuice

Excellent information! I recently switched to max VG and couldn't figure out why my juice wasn't as flavorful. Now I know why! Any ideas of how much I should bump up the flavorings?

 

[ckquatt]

Excellent information! I recently switched to max VG and couldn't figure out why my juice wasn't as flavorful. Now I know why! Any ideas of how much I should bump up the flavorings?

I usually go an extra 1%-1.5% on all flavorings depending on the original ratio. If I go from 50/50 to MAXVG I may even double the %. But that's just ME. I don't mind the extra flavor.

 

[Kurt]

ECBlends is a certified AEMSA member, and thus are bound to nicotine accuracy for all of their e-liquids. Their lab results on nicotine must be within +/- 10% of the labeled value for all of their e-liquid products, and documented as such. If you think their nicotine is inaccurate, you should absolutely contact them. They would want to know if there are errors, since not fixing this could impact their certification in AEMSA. Not saying there is no error, but nicotine accuracy is a BIG deal in AEMSA.

Also, adding 10-15% water will thin a VG e-liquid and open up flavors some, as well as increase TH from the nic.

One last thing, I think that nicotine separating or rising to the top due to lower density than VG is a myth. I have never seen or heard of this, and I speak with large manufacturers and labs. No one in the industry has seen this as long as the e-liquid or DIY base is mixed completely. If it is thick VG with pure nic, and it has not been mixed properly, and you have regions of pure nic or pure VG, then this could happen. But once the solution is homogeneous and mixed completely, nic does not separate out or rise to the top. I have MANY bottles of 100 mg/mL VG nic, and have never seen this happen. In an e-liquid with perhaps PG, flavors, water and maybe a little ethanol (in some flavors), and it is a transparent homogeneous solution, it will stay that way. The thermodynamics dictate dissolving, and they do not reverse and go back to separated.

Hope this helps! Good luck!

 

[Jdurand]

Substances with differing specific gravities will eventually separate, think oil and water, but the amount of time it would take in a completely mixed fluid as viscous as VG would be likened to the amount of time it takes for coal to turn to diamonds!

 

[r77r7r]

The thermodynamics dictate dissolving, and they do not reverse and go back to separated.

Nuff said

 

[Kurt]

If the substances are miscible, they will not separate, unless concentrations or temperatures change enough to change solubilities. Oil and water are not miscible and not an appropriate example here. Nicotine and PG/VG are. Salt is more dense than water, but will not eventually fall to the bottom of an aqueous salt solution. Solutions stay as solutions, unless the solvent evaporates enough to increase the solute concentration to an extent as to become insoluble, or the temperature changes enough to affect solubility.

I would like to hear about one instance where a fully mixed homogeneous nicotine-containing e-liquid solution has been observed to have nicotine rise to the top over time. People talk about it, and understandably fear it, but has anyone ever actually observed this happening? Not in my world.

Solutions between substances are formed because of interactions between the substances, especially with protic polar solvents like VG and PG. The solution forms because the interactions (enthalpy) between the solvent (PG, VG) and the solute (here nicotine) are stronger than the sum of the interactions of VG with VG AND nic with nic. If this was not the case then the nic would not dissolve, and it would be like oil and water. Those interactions will not reverse themselves. Entropy also comes into play here to some extent. Nicotine molecules separated from each other and surrounded by VG or PG molecules cannot find each other again easily to begin to aggregate to form pure nic, and those nic-nic interactions are relatively weak anyway.

The only situation I am aware of where nic can separate and rise to the top of PG or VG is when the solution is extremely high in nic (much higher than 100 mg/mL), and the solution is heated to above 60C. Then one can have a phase change of solution to heterogeneous mixture. This is research decades old. Does not happen at room temp or colder.

There is more chance of flavor compounds separating than nicotine, since these are often pretty non-polar and have lower solubilities, especially if the liquid is cooled. Menthol is an example, and can crystallize from an e-liquid sometimes.

This is all based on my understanding solution thermodynamics of miscible liquids, as well as many years of observation and consultation with manufacturers and analytical labs. If someone, anyone, can give an example of nicotine separating and rising to the top of an e-liquid, I'm all ears. I do believe this is a "what if" fear that has turned into a "fact", but without evidence.

 

[kiba]

Another thing to consider is steep time, if you are vaping right after mixing and comparing that to a commercial juice that has been steeped a few weeks already, one is going to be noticeably smoother than the other.

 

[vapesmooth123]

High PG juice provides more flavor and throat hit. High VG juice gives clouds, but lower flavor and throat hit for a given flavor percentage. I vape PG and sometimes VG base flavors. If it's alcohol based I'm usually not interested because of the throat hit.

It's the nic level and the PG percentage that ups the throat hit with PG and VG based juices.

Are you shaking the nicotine base bottle every time before you mix a batch a juice? The nic will settle and separate to some point when it sits idle for a while. Shake the heck out of it before you mix.

Believe me, I know all that in theory about PG carrying flavor (and ethyl alcohol) vs VG-based flavors.
Yes I shake the heck outa my nic concentrate. I have DIY'd with PG flavors and they are unvapably harsh at any level I can taste them at hence I usually vape flavorless. the worst are the Nature's Flavors ethyl alhocol based. Also, I bought a lot of medicine flower (c02 extracted) and those, also unvapable- I contacted them asking what the actual liquid is in the c02 extracted flavors, as if they are adding alcohol/VG/PG etc, they said nothing is added and that the liquid is from the source flavor, so I am thinking the liquid is just water because medicine flower's c02 extracted flavors are actually derived from the titled flavor - banana is from an actual banana unlike "natural banana flavor" form nature's flavors etc. Strawberry is from actual strawberry etc.

Also, adding 10-15% water will thin a VG e-liquid and open up flavors some, as well as increase TH from the nic.

I have tried quite hard to finagle ECBlend to tell indirectly tell me the source of their "natural organic banana flavor' because I would like to just buy it in concentrate and mx myself to save like %5,000. I have asked, and they add no water at all (I pretended I was concerned if the water, if any, was distilled or not to not interfere with my coil - they said no water is added).

Another thing to consider is steep time, if you are vaping right after mixing and comparing that to a commercial juice that has been steeped a few weeks already, one is going to be noticeably smoother than the other.

Tried that. I mixed 4 bottles about 6 weeks ago, all 6mg flavorless 100VG. One I vaped straight away and is harsh, the other I left the cap off for a month at least and shook it periodically- it was the same harshness.

I was originally thinking this same theory though, that ECB was premixing the VG and the nic in dedicated large containers like 3/6/12/18/24mg so it's quicker to mix when ordered. Another thing that made me think that is for some reason their Natural organic strawberry is not available in one of the nic amounts all the others in that organic line is - which makes you wonder why can't I have it custom mixed as any mg the other flavors are available in.



I take it back what I said about the tfv8 making this ECBlend organic banana taste way off vs the old protank 1 and eGo twist days - I said they yesterday or the day before, but today I am loving this flavor. 10-coil tfv8 coil is almost brand new and maybe it had to round out or something, I really don't know.

I usually buy from ECblend the organic natural %100VG banana at 0mg, 3mg, and 12mg, all with extra flavor. I can definitely see a color darkness from the higher mg ones which is to be expected. I do doubt they are actually skimping on the nic in order to make it taste better - that's really not a business plan. I just don't get why this flavor and their %100Vg organic line is Ethyl Alcohol based and still taste so smooth even with extra flavor added and at around 6mg. I just don't understand how I can mix my own with 6mg flavorless %100VG and it be like 5 times harsher. Maybe for whatever reason the flavor just round off the mix despite it being ethyl alcohol based. Something with the flavor compounds themselves might be the reason. I have searched and searched and think I might have found their organic banana flavor in a deep corner of the internet because it's hard to find organic banana ethyl alcohol based flavor suitable for vaping besides the few obvious brands I have already tried like nature's flavors and I tried all types of tricks with the nature's flavors like leaving the caps off to evaporate the alcohol or heating them up, but they're still too harsh.
Back to the drawing board I guess.

I'm like overthinking this maybe. I keep contradicting myself also. I've made quite a few posts about trying to crack this code for ECBlend %100Vg organic flavor source. I try DIY with other flavors and think it might be easier than I thought, but now that I'm vaporing 6mg ECblend, it's just so much smoother than my 6 (or even 3 probably) flavorless %100VG. Back to the drawing board. thanks

 

[kiba]

Oh I know, Idk if they're still around anymore but I spent a long time trying to figure out pink spot watermelon for my gf, turns out it's just plain lorran's watermelon with a few drops of marshmallow, actually a lot of their flavors are lorran's and very simple 1 or 2 flavor combinations.

 

[Opinionated]

Believe me, I know all that in theory about PG carrying flavor (and ethyl alcohol) vs VG-based flavors.
Yes I shake the heck outa my nic concentrate. I have DIY'd with PG flavors and they are unvapably harsh at any level I can taste them at hence I usually vape flavorless. the worst are the Nature's Flavors ethyl alhocol based. Also, I bought a lot of medicine flower (c02 extracted) and those, also unvapable- I contacted them asking what the actual liquid is in the c02 extracted flavors, as if they are adding alcohol/VG/PG etc, they said nothing is added and that the liquid is from the source flavor, so I am thinking the liquid is just water because medicine flower's c02 extracted flavors are actually derived from the titled flavor - banana is from an actual banana unlike "natural banana flavor" form nature's flavors etc. Strawberry is from actual strawberry etc.




I have tried quite hard to finagle ECBlend to tell indirectly tell me the source of their "natural organic banana flavor' because I would like to just buy it in concentrate and mx myself to save like %5,000. I have asked, and they add no water at all (I pretended I was concerned if the water, if any, was distilled or not to not interfere with my coil - they said no water is added).



Tried that. I mixed 4 bottles about 6 weeks ago, all 6mg flavorless 100VG. One I vaped straight away and is harsh, the other I left the cap off for a month at least and shook it periodically- it was the same harshness.

I was originally thinking this same theory though, that ECB was premixing the VG and the nic in dedicated large containers like 3/6/12/18/24mg so it's quicker to mix when ordered. Another thing that made me think that is for some reason their Natural organic strawberry is not available in one of the nic amounts all the others in that organic line is - which makes you wonder why can't I have it custom mixed as any mg the other flavors are available in.



I take it back what I said about the tfv8 making this ECBlend organic banana taste way off vs the old protank 1 and eGo twist days - I said they yesterday or the day before, but today I am loving this flavor. 10-coil tfv8 coil is almost brand new and maybe it had to round out or something, I really don't know.

I usually buy from ECblend the organic natural %100VG banana at 0mg, 3mg, and 12mg, all with extra flavor. I can definitely see a color darkness from the higher mg ones which is to be expected. I do doubt they are actually skimping on the nic in order to make it taste better - that's really not a business plan. I just don't get why this flavor and their %100Vg organic line is Ethyl Alcohol based and still taste so smooth even with extra flavor added and at around 6mg. I just don't understand how I can mix my own with 6mg flavorless %100VG and it be like 5 times harsher. Maybe for whatever reason the flavor just round off the mix despite it being ethyl alcohol based. Something with the flavor compounds themselves might be the reason. I have searched and searched and think I might have found their organic banana flavor in a deep corner of the internet because it's hard to find organic banana ethyl alcohol based flavor suitable for vaping besides the few obvious brands I have already tried like nature's flavors and I tried all types of tricks with the nature's flavors like leaving the caps off to evaporate the alcohol or heating them up, but they're still too harsh.
Back to the drawing board I guess.

I'm like overthinking this maybe. I keep contradicting myself also. I've made quite a few posts about trying to crack this code for ECBlend %100Vg organic flavor source. I try DIY with other flavors and think it might be easier than I thought, but now that I'm vaporing 6mg ECblend, it's just so much smoother than my 6 (or even 3 probably) flavorless %100VG. Back to the drawing board. thanks

Have you tried using TFA smooth?

 

[kiba]

They used to be $1/1mL too

On the nic thing, I spent 6yrs suffering with harsh nic, tried it all, worst being wizard labs and rts... It wasn't till nude nic came around but that I found some that was smooth enough for me, it's not fantastic but it's a whole lot smoother than any other nic I've tried.

 

[kiba]

Have you tried using TFA smooth?

Yech, TFA smooth is just terrible.

 

[Opinionated]

Yech, TFA smooth is just terrible.

Only if you use too much.. usually a tiny bit rounds out the flavor and makes it less harsh.

 

[Opinionated]

They used to be $1/1mL too

On the nic thing, I spent 6yrs suffering with harsh nic, tried it all, worst being wizard labs and rts... It wasn't till nude nic came around but that I found some that was smooth enough for me, it's not fantastic but it's a whole lot smoother than any other nic I've tried.

Do you use the smooth nicotine salts? More expensive but worth it..

 

[kiba]

Do you use the smooth nicotine salts? More expensive but worth it..

I've tried them, but I don't use them, who knows what that stuff breaks down into when subjected to intense heat. We're only just now figuring out the safe temps for pg/vg.

 

[vapesmooth123]

ECB told me there's no 'smooth' or anything added to this juice.

Right now I'm vaping 12mg natural organic %100 VG and can not believe how smooth it is. I encourage someone to try this %100Vg line of theirs and tell me what they think.

Even at 0mg I have vaped ethyl based flavors and are much harsher than this at 12mg.

I might have made a mistake before I said I tried vaporstech, I don't think I tried that one yet, but it also might have came out after I started vaping ECB %100VG around 2012 anyway. I did try nude nicotine, the free sample, and was not impressed. Again, even at 0mg, any PG based flavor is usually much harsher than this I just don't get it.



Banana
Organic
Natural
ethyl alcohol based
No water or anything added to the flavor concentrate.

I have searched and bought the obvious source of flavor was natures flavors (or their sister sites like BestFlavor etc), and they were so harsh even at 0mg and allowed to evaporate or heated up.

I did find like sort of deeper in the internet some other banana flavors with the criteria above that ECB uses but haven't tried them yet to see if they are what ECB uses, they are lost somewhere in my favorites folder lol. I will buy them eventually but even just flavorless is harsher than this with flavor I don't get it.

 

[mikepetro]

It is the nicotine that makes the ejuice taste harsh, not the vg. Sometimes, vendors thin their vg to make it easier to mix and handle. These 2 things are what come to mind when reading your post.



eta
Wizard Labs sells a kit where you can determine the nicotine levels in your ejuice. Last I looked it was around $8 or so......no need to spend $ to sent to a lab.

Do keep in mind, this test is only for standard nic. If you are testing a solution with nic salts (like the Juul), that test will not yield accurate results.