Very interesting thought brad, i too believe something more is going on with cig consumption opposed to vape consumption
Is nic really addictive?
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Very interesting thought brad, i too believe something more is going on with cig consumption opposed to vape consumption
They are putting nothing of real importance. All this media crap is just crap. They make things taste better, they make smoking experience nicer. That's it.
I got addicted to nicotine on pure not altered tobacco, no BT, no nothing.
But you are an Alien so it doesn't affect you like it does we humans
OH my gosh, i am laughing so hard right now!!!
okay i am still laughing at mattiem, but do you guys think it was the free base exposure opposed to patches and gum?
off work for the night, my daughter is cooking..just want some honest feedback laughs aside, do you think freebase nic got us addicted?
For myself, the answer is yes. Was always so ...... that little white stick was stronger than I was. Tried to quit so many times. Weird thing is - I have never felt that way about my vapes.
My opinion, which is just one man's opinion based ONLY on my experience with thirty years of smoking and almost four years of vaping....
First, when I smoked, most of the time when I was working on something in an area where I could not smoke, I was often preoccupied by plans TO smoke. Like "I'll get this last bolt tightened and go have a smoke break". Or "I'll get all the voltage and current readings I need and go have a cigarette". When I woke up, I had to have a cigarette. Walk the dogs? Light a smoke. Get the car on the road? Light up a smoke.
With vaping, I'll sometimes go hours if I'm busy working on something and not able to vape, I really don't obsess about getting away to vape. If it takes me two hours to finish a task, I'll finish the task and vape when I've got everything cleaned up and the tools and test equipment put away. (Hell, when I was a smoker, I'd have a cigarette while the oil was draining out of my car during an oil change as sort of a timer, lol.)
Second, there were a few times when I was a smoker that I tried to switch to lights (I smoked full flavor menthol cigarettes). When I did, my cigarette consumption usually doubled (or close to doubled) each and every time, for weeks at a time. As a vaper, I've stepped down my nicotine level from 24mg/ml to where I'm at now, 0 to 3mg/ml. I've never had a plan, or really, an intent to step down, it was just sort of a "I wonder what XXmg/ml would be like.
Although my liquid consumption goes up a tad (like from around 6 ml a day to 8 ml a day, for example) it's not consistently that way every single day. These days, there's many times where I have nothing with me but 0 mg e-liquid, and I'm at the same usage rate as I was with 3 mg.
That being said, while I believe I was physically dependent on nicotine, I wouldn't call it a full-blown addiction. YMMV.
First, when I smoked, most of the time when I was working on something in an area where I could not smoke, I was often preoccupied by plans TO smoke. Like "I'll get this last bolt tightened and go have a smoke break". Or "I'll get all the voltage and current readings I need and go have a cigarette". When I woke up, I had to have a cigarette. Walk the dogs? Light a smoke. Get the car on the road? Light up a smoke.
With vaping, I'll sometimes go hours if I'm busy working on something and not able to vape, I really don't obsess about getting away to vape. If it takes me two hours to finish a task, I'll finish the task and vape when I've got everything cleaned up and the tools and test equipment put away. (Hell, when I was a smoker, I'd have a cigarette while the oil was draining out of my car during an oil change as sort of a timer, lol.)
Second, there were a few times when I was a smoker that I tried to switch to lights (I smoked full flavor menthol cigarettes). When I did, my cigarette consumption usually doubled (or close to doubled) each and every time, for weeks at a time. As a vaper, I've stepped down my nicotine level from 24mg/ml to where I'm at now, 0 to 3mg/ml. I've never had a plan, or really, an intent to step down, it was just sort of a "I wonder what XXmg/ml would be like.
Although my liquid consumption goes up a tad (like from around 6 ml a day to 8 ml a day, for example) it's not consistently that way every single day. These days, there's many times where I have nothing with me but 0 mg e-liquid, and I'm at the same usage rate as I was with 3 mg.
That being said, while I believe I was physically dependent on nicotine, I wouldn't call it a full-blown addiction. YMMV.
Cigarettes (the alkeloids that are naturally present, and tar are the big ball of wax, in my opinion, that cause the addictive process...) I too used additive free cigarettes, but that didn't stop them from spraying all the tobacco with pure nicotine, for example (and anything IN a plant can be increased, lowered, or removed, either via gmo or other means.... I highly doubt my additive free tobacco had NO tobacco boosting at all, really. And Tar has been shown by the NIH, to be found a highly addictive substance, one of THE strongest MAOIs in cigarettes. To me, it's one of the big ones. I gotta be honest, I have wondered if eating tar might satisfy that MAOI need, but now I realize I don't even need it, which is even better! Though it was a bit of a rough transition....
I look at cigarettes as this gigantic, I will say *8* ball, of magical ingredients keeping you addicted in multiple ways (at least it felt so for me). If you remove one ingredient, things will change, but I'm not exactly sure how. I don't see how smokers would get full satiation without nicotine, and remember, BT did plenty of interesting tests on what would work to keep their smokers.... Happy. Maybe a Juul will be handed out with one's first next cartons of cigarettes, and people can be paying twice. Let us hope not or if it does, they transition.
I am a firm believer in nic addiction, as any time I stopped a nic replacement product (sometimes even before) so if I'd broken my addiction on nicotine via gum chewing (it was 6 months) then you'd think I'd be fine. I wasn't.
I completely agree with the fact that everyone has different susceceptibilites to different things, certainly. Many people cold turkey cigarettes with way more easiness and lack of difficulty than I ever could.
Just glad to Be Not Smoking Today, which is a nice break from yesterday.
Anna
I look at cigarettes as this gigantic, I will say *8* ball, of magical ingredients keeping you addicted in multiple ways (at least it felt so for me). If you remove one ingredient, things will change, but I'm not exactly sure how. I don't see how smokers would get full satiation without nicotine, and remember, BT did plenty of interesting tests on what would work to keep their smokers.... Happy. Maybe a Juul will be handed out with one's first next cartons of cigarettes, and people can be paying twice. Let us hope not or if it does, they transition.
I am a firm believer in nic addiction, as any time I stopped a nic replacement product (sometimes even before) so if I'd broken my addiction on nicotine via gum chewing (it was 6 months) then you'd think I'd be fine. I wasn't.
I completely agree with the fact that everyone has different susceceptibilites to different things, certainly. Many people cold turkey cigarettes with way more easiness and lack of difficulty than I ever could.
Just glad to Be Not Smoking Today, which is a nice break from yesterday.
Anna
there is definitely something extra in the pre-made cigs
withdrawals going from pre-mades to roll your own was much worse than going from ryo to 12mg in a CE4
withdrawals going from pre-mades to roll your own was much worse than going from ryo to 12mg in a CE4
Oh, I agree. I told my doc I was smoking additive free tobacco (I made that switch fairly early on in my smoking habits), and he said, "Oh, that's probably why you aren't dead then." I was inclined to agree with him. I truly HATE additive filled tobacco, which helps me out in gas stations here (they hide the American Spirits) LOL. That said, they're still a chemical soup, but I would recommend to anyone dual using that they switch to additive free tobacco if they can, if only because you won't get rewarded by your usual "chemical soup" but will get what seems like a cigarette, which may be less tasty than one's regular brand. But, you'll still get alkaloids, tar, etc. it's just less to detox off.
Anna
I truly HATE additive filled tobacco, which helps me out in gas stations here (they hide the American Spirits) LOL. That said, they're still a chemical soup, but I would recommend to anyone dual using that they switch to additive free tobacco if they can, if only because you won't get rewarded by your usual "chemical soup" but will get what seems like a cigarette, which may be less tasty than one's regular brand. But, you'll still get alkaloids, tar, etc. it's just less to detox off.Anna
BT know their product - and how to make it so that you develop a craving for it.
But they ain't telling.
Don't have to either.
Research done in their own labs with their own staff and resources - theirs to keep or disclose as they see fit.
Least till another bunch of lawyers comes and hands out subpoenas.
Ammonia and acetaldhyde ( MSDS on that one is a real zinger ) do play a role and probably a truckload of other chems.
MSA court stuff was a lot bout nicotine. Not so much about how to boost delivery. Best supply isn't much good if delivery sucks. So low-nic fags may be another smokescreen. Wouldn't put it past BT to play along or even allow the FDA (after dutifully shedding crocodile tears in public) to pull that particular rbbit out of the hat, cuz they'd be sitting on the formulas already to make these low nic cigs as addictive as the 'old' models...
But they ain't telling.
Don't have to either.
Research done in their own labs with their own staff and resources - theirs to keep or disclose as they see fit.
Least till another bunch of lawyers comes and hands out subpoenas.
Ammonia and acetaldhyde ( MSDS on that one is a real zinger ) do play a role and probably a truckload of other chems.
MSA court stuff was a lot bout nicotine. Not so much about how to boost delivery. Best supply isn't much good if delivery sucks. So low-nic fags may be another smokescreen. Wouldn't put it past BT to play along or even allow the FDA (after dutifully shedding crocodile tears in public) to pull that particular rbbit out of the hat, cuz they'd be sitting on the formulas already to make these low nic cigs as addictive as the 'old' models...
My opinion, which is just one man's opinion based ONLY on my experience with thirty years of smoking and almost four years of vaping....
First, when I smoked, most of the time when I was working on something in an area where I could not smoke, I was often preoccupied by plans TO smoke. Like "I'll get this last bolt tightened and go have a smoke break". Or "I'll get all the voltage and current readings I need and go have a cigarette". When I woke up, I had to have a cigarette. Walk the dogs? Light a smoke. Get the car on the road? Light up a smoke.
With vaping, I'll sometimes go hours if I'm busy working on something and not able to vape, I really don't obsess about getting away to vape. If it takes me two hours to finish a task, I'll finish the task and vape when I've got everything cleaned up and the tools and test equipment put away. (Hell, when I was a smoker, I'd have a cigarette while the oil was draining out of my car during an oil change as sort of a timer, lol.)
Second, there were a few times when I was a smoker that I tried to switch to lights (I smoked full flavor menthol cigarettes). When I did, my cigarette consumption usually doubled (or close to doubled) each and every time, for weeks at a time. As a vaper, I've stepped down my nicotine level from 24mg/ml to where I'm at now, 0 to 3mg/ml. I've never had a plan, or really, an intent to step down, it was just sort of a "I wonder what XXmg/ml would be like.
Although my liquid consumption goes up a tad (like from around 6 ml a day to 8 ml a day, for example) it's not consistently that way every single day. These days, there's many times where I have nothing with me but 0 mg e-liquid, and I'm at the same usage rate as I was with 3 mg.
That being said, while I believe I was physically dependent on nicotine, I wouldn't call it a full-blown addiction. YMMV.
thank you for sharing Ktech. I had to shake my head because omg that sounded just like me when i smoked. Everything was about that next cig break for EVERYTHING i did. I am not that way with vaping at all though much like you. For me i think i was addicted to more then just nic, so i can't really say if it was nic or other things compounding the addiction.
Cigarettes (the alkeloids that are naturally present, and tar are the big ball of wax, in my opinion, that cause the addictive process...) I too used additive free cigarettes, but that didn't stop them from spraying all the tobacco with pure nicotine, for example (and anything IN a plant can be increased, lowered, or removed, either via gmo or other means.... I highly doubt my additive free tobacco had NO tobacco boosting at all, really. And Tar has been shown by the NIH, to be found a highly addictive substance, one of THE strongest MAOIs in cigarettes. To me, it's one of the big ones. I gotta be honest, I have wondered if eating tar might satisfy that MAOI need, but now I realize I don't even need it, which is even better! Though it was a bit of a rough transition....
I look at cigarettes as this gigantic, I will say *8* ball, of magical ingredients keeping you addicted in multiple ways (at least it felt so for me). If you remove one ingredient, things will change, but I'm not exactly sure how. I don't see how smokers would get full satiation without nicotine, and remember, BT did plenty of interesting tests on what would work to keep their smokers.... Happy. Maybe a Juul will be handed out with one's first next cartons of cigarettes, and people can be paying twice. Let us hope not or if it does, they transition.
I am a firm believer in nic addiction, as any time I stopped a nic replacement product (sometimes even before) so if I'd broken my addiction on nicotine via gum chewing (it was 6 months) then you'd think I'd be fine. I wasn't.
I completely agree with the fact that everyone has different susceceptibilites to different things, certainly. Many people cold turkey cigarettes with way more easiness and lack of difficulty than I ever could.
Just glad to Be Not Smoking Today, which is a nice break from yesterday.
Anna
awesome post and well said!!
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