Malic Acid experiment

[XMit]

I do a lot of cooking and sauce making, to preface. I've learned that two things can enhance flavor when it seems flat; salty or acidic. These usually don't come out as the base flavors when blended, they just seem to "brighten" things a bit.

Knowing that, I experimented with Malic Acid crystals the other day. I mixed 1/2 a teaspoon of cystals into 4ml of VG. After warming and mixing, and warming and mixing, and warming and mixing some more, there was no longer any crystals in suspension. They had totally dissolved. I added this 4ml to some flavoring and a straight VG base for a total of 25% flavoring. I intended to experiment with the mix to get an idea of potency. I let it sit for three days and when looking at the liquid over a light, there were no visible crystals reformed.

Result? No sourness that I can detect at full strength. In fact when dripping on a debridged 510, I get a musty, almost mildew aroma from the brew. Curious, I put a dab straight on my tongue and it blew me out of my chair! Slightly salty on the front, intense sour on the back.

I'm thinking either I used too much and the acid is overpowering everything (mustiness) or Malic Acid doesn't carry well to vapor. My base flavoring didn't really come through that well either.

Anyone else use Malic Acid in their mixes? Experiences or ratios you've tried would be interesting.

 

[Scottinboca]

I don't really do DIY, but I know that you are suppose to dissolve any crystals in pga.

 

[Hoosier]

Just guessing here as I've never experimented with malic acid, but I would say your first thought is correct.

I would suspect that your sour booster would work best at tiny ratios, probably less than 1%.

But, unlike many flavorings, you are engaging the tongue, instead of the nose. I would really like to read results of further experiments of yours. The concept if VERY interesting!

 

[Kurt]

Not sure this is a good idea. Google "malic acid inhalation". Seems there have been some problems with this acid, including one death, but the amounts are not reported. Carboxylic acids are very hard on mucus tissue and lungs. To be honest, deliberately inhaling it just to tweak a flavor seems unwise.

 

[fray]

it may be harmful if large amounts are inhaled (like a dust cloud of crystal). Op mixed it at approx 12.5% which is on the high side. The juice i mix containing malic acid uses >1% (20% malic acid in PG mixed in at >5%)

 

[kinabaloo]

Malic acid will not vaporise. Some might be expected to get mistified into the 'vapor' but that no significant amount was detected illustrates that it is mostly thermally decomposed (this happens around 150C, similar to citric acid which emits carbon monoxide as one breakdown product).

Ethanoic (acetic) acid will vaporise fine - but is another carboxylic acid that must not be vaped as it is a strong irritant to mucous membranes.

In short, there are no safe acids for vaping.

 

[deathtobacco]

So it sounds like I should not be using this product in my fruit flavored juices:

LorAnn Tart & Sour - One Stop DIY Shop Store

The two primary ingredients are malic acid and citric acid. I use about 2 drops in a 3ml recipe and it does seem to make the flavor pop. But certainly not worth a lung. Any advice from the chemists? Thanks in advance.

 

[kinabaloo]

So it sounds like I should not be using this product in my fruit flavored juices:

LorAnn Tart & Sour - One Stop DIY Shop Store

The two primary ingredients are malic acid and citric acid. I use about 2 drops in a 3ml recipe and it does seem to make the flavor pop. But certainly not worth a lung. Any advice from the chemists? Thanks in advance.

When one considers the tiny amounts (and dose does make the poison - look at nicotine as a good example), know there is a risk. How much risk depends partly on whether (how much) one lung inhales.

One doesn't keel over when adding vinegar to hot chips and breathing that pugnacious but rather awesome vapor - but then one doesn't do this all day, every day.

No simple answer; besides, better not to. Be in the know and act wisely.

 

[XMit]

So, I mixed up so more crystals and VG. Dissolved half a teaspoon to 10ml VG. Took this solution and added 1ml to a 30ml batch.

The result this time was much better. The TPA Pom flavor I was using became much more present and quite a bit more tart. There is a strange "tootsie roll" type of flavor just barely riding on the back of the exhale. I suspect this may be the MA burning or caramelizing giving a caramel type flavor, just barely detectable. I plan on taking the ratio down to .5ml per 30 to see what happens next time.

I also noticed some irritation to my mouth and tongue after chain vaping this mix for about three hours at my desk. I got the same thing from PG liquids, so I think it's more of a drying than anything and not enough to worry me.

I wish I was wasn't as mathematically challenged as I would be able to figure out the volumes of what I'm using to carry into other mixes. Dry and liquid volume confuses me.