Protected batteries work in some?

[dam718]

Aloha!

So I've seen many folks say to use high drain IMR unprotected batteries... It's all over the place

And I also have seen many recommendations to stay away from protected low discharge batteries...

In fact, with regard to low drain protected batteries, I have seen quite a few folks report that attempted use in some APV's, that they only work for a few puffs, and then they cut off.

So I was a bit surprised yesterday when I went to my local Volcano retail shop and picked up a Lavatube V2 kit... When I asked them if they had extra batteries, they suggested using an UltraFire BRC18650 3000mAh Low Drain Protected battery. Huh?

I made sure to have them repeat several times back to me that using this battery would not void my warranty, and they insisted that not only would my 1 yr warranty on the Lavatube still be in effect, but that the battery itself had a 90 day warranty, so if anything happens I'm covered...

Roger that...

Low and behold, after charging this battery (which took forever...) I throw it in the Lavatube V2 and wouldn't ya know it works fabulous!

So what gives here?

Why do they work in some APV's and not work in others? Pretty sure I saw that the Vamo was one of the ones that won't work with protected batteries...

Any insight would be appreciated!

Mahalo!

 

[markfm]

It depends on the current draw from the battery, whether you will end up tripping the protection.

A good modern icr protected can run to 2C. A 3000 mAh could handle 6A discharge, 18W output if discharged all the way down to 3V, plenty for use in most vv. (you might expect about 16w max output available from an 18w input, this depends on regulator efficiency which varies)

Big modern icr turn the must-use-imr bit around. Just a couple years ago you really needed imr, since icr capacity was a lot lower, couldn't drive the needed current. People may still prefer imr, nicer failure mode and under load sag, while others may prefer the extra protection circuitry of the protected icr.

(A good regulator will compensate for sag on an icr. Also, a vv may have device level cutout that kicks in at a higher voltage, say 3.3v.)

 

[Thrasher]

depends on the actual icr battery. icr is straight lithium ion IMR is a hybrid and considered more stable.

IMR is considered much safer for high current draw. trying to drive these batteries up will trigger the protection circuit.

the specs i find for this one says a nominal current output of 1.5 amps much less then the 10 amp limit of the IMR.
while in a low current application these batteries will be fine(as will most icr) but IMR was adopted more for the current potential not the safety (that was an added benefit)
and many reviews of this across the web complain that in high draw devices like some flashlights these batteries are severely lacking in output.
will they work for you sure, IMR was just widely adopted as most people wanted the current range and stability they offer, and would rather the mod decide the amp limit not the battery.

also protected batteries usually work in almost all mods, but they add length and most of the electronic mods have built in protection so no need to use them.

 

[markfm]

Thrasher is correct that that particular battery has pretty poor nominal current rating, though the trip is higher, and also it tests poorly for vaping level run time.

I've been sticking with big aw icr in unregulated pv, and more of a shrug in my regulated vv, some aw, and trustfire flamejacket, plus a couple of other test imr.

 

[dam718]

Good info guys, thanks

Will say this, I have been using the UltraFire all day and it hasn't budged off 4.1V on the Lavatube. About 6 hours so far...

Do they show a high voltage for most of their charge cycle and then drop like a rock towards the end? Or should I see a steady discharge all day? Either way, it was like $8 so not too big a deal... If it works good only in the Lavatube, that's fine with me

 

[Thrasher]

i would check it with a meter just to be sure once in a while but it is a big battery. and may just drop fast.
hey if it works fine i say go with it. and heck if it holds up and stays working fine in the LT get another for 8 bucks and just use em in the LT - 16 bucks and your set for the year

 

[Rader2146]

It all depends on the APV. More specifically the design of the circuit. The topology will play a huge part in how friendly the circuit will be towards a low current battery. The peak current could be double or triple of the average current depending on the design. You'll never know unless you run some tests.

Either way, my personal opinion of those Ultrafire BRC 3000mAh is not for the faint of heart. To put it lightly, it's a craps shoot.

Test of UltraFire BRC18650 3000mAh (Red-silver)

 

[dam718]

The negative reviews and tests of this specific battery were exactly why I was hesitant to get it in the first place... But if Volcano is ready to back up its performance with a 90 day warranty and sell it to me for $8, it was also pretty hard to say no.

There must be a reason they are backing it and promoting it's use with the Lavatube V2... Honestly, to this point, and to be fair I've only been using it one day, BUT, it has proven to be a champ! This ONE battery on this ONE Lavatube V2 is working great. Might not get so lucky with a different LT or a different BRC18650, but the pairing of these two units together seems to be working out well.

Been going at it all day... 14 hours now, pretty much chain vaping... Handle got a little warm at some points, but not HOT. Nice, big clouds of vapor all day... Heck, I haven't had to add juice either... this whole thing is a fluke I tell ya...

I mean, I'm using a Lavatube V2, which is a pretty decent mod, not the best, but certainly not the worse either... A smoktech carto in a smoktank which are not the best cartos and tanks... But man... My carto is working great, the tank is nice and tight (no juice in my lap) the battery is working awesome, still shows 3.9V after 14 hours of continuous vaping...

Just real happy overall with the whole purchase, especially since most people have some not so favorable opinions about the tank, cartos, and battery. It's either a fluke, or I just got real lucky! LoL

Anyhow, thanks for all the input guys, it's really been helpful!

 

[Slurp812]

Was that a single coil carto? Do you know the approximate wattage you were vaping at?

 

[Tinaphps]

It depends on the current draw from the battery, whether you will end up tripping the protection.

 

[dam718]

It's a single coil 3 Ohm carto measuring at 2.9 Ohms, I'm vaping at 5V, so somewhere in the neighborhood of 8.6W, if you have a VW device, try 8.5 or 9W

 

[kiwivap]

There must be a reason they are backing it and promoting it's use with the Lavatube V2...

Vendors buy kits straight from China with whatever batteries their supplier puts in there. Often the mod is good and the batteries are low quality. Sometimes the batteries will work with the mod - but as already said, its a crapshoot.

 

[dam718]

The kit comes with an AW IMR 18650 1600mAh battery. I wanted a second battery, and this is what they recommended I use. And actually, at the retail locations, the Volcano folks do things a bit different... Anything you buy at the time of purchase of the kit gets a "Kit" discount, so you can mix and match and include anything you want. They piece the kit together a'la carte with whatever you want.

If you buy online though, you get the AW IMR battery, not the BRC.

Don't want folks thinking they get some strange iffy battery if they're thinking about getting a Lavatube It comes with the tried and true workhorse AW IMR battery, that also works like a champ.

 

[kiwivap]

The kit comes with an AW IMR 18650 1600mAh battery. I wanted a second battery, and this is what they recommended I use. And actually, at the retail locations, the Volcano folks do things a bit different... Anything you buy at the time of purchase of the kit gets a "Kit" discount, so you can mix and match and include anything you want. They piece the kit together a'la carte with whatever you want.

If you buy online though, you get the AW IMR battery, not the BRC.

Don't want folks thinking they get some strange iffy battery if they're thinking about getting a Lavatube It comes with the tried and true workhorse AW IMR battery, that also works like a champ.

Ok, sorry. I've seen so many kits that had crap batteries with them. Like this for a lavatube:
New generation lavatube V2 (18650 battery) - Zainy - Electronic Cigarettes

 

[dam718]

Oh, no... I got the "real" Lavatube V2 from Volcano E-Cigs.

The most advanced variable voltage electronic cigarette

In blue

Bah, the forum automatically adjusts my link... Of course I don't really believe it's the most advanced VV electronic cig in the world... It's no Darwin or Provari...

 

[kiwivap]

Oh, no... I got the "real" Lavatube V2 from Volcano E-Cigs.

The most advanced variable voltage electronic cigarette

In blue

Bah, the forum automatically adjusts my link... Of course I don't really believe it's the most advanced VV electronic cig in the world... It's no Darwin or Provari...

Well the Darwin is vw, and to be honest it needs an upgrade. That folding arm thing is no use to tank users.

Now why did you have to send me to a link with those colors.... very nice looking. I like these new anodized options that are coming out.

 

[tc1]

Those blue Desay ICR 18650s actually work really well ....

 

[dam718]

So this BRC 18650 ended up vaping great the whole time, and lasted for a LONG time (to be expected from a 3000mAh battery)

From mid day Friday to Monday evening when it finally registered "Lo" on my Lavatube and wouldn't vape anymore...

Color me impressed... That was about 12mL of fluid vaped I was intentionally trying to wear the battery down...

I've found, in that time, that I really don't care for these SmokTech cartos at all... Flavor can't touch my cotton wicked nova or CE5's... I like those a lot better... I'll try the Boge cartos out next... I really like the idea of using a carto/tank, they last all day long... But man, there is just something about this somktech that tastes funky, like I'm vaping with a penny in my mouth... blah