Reynolds introduces Vuse / Could e-cigarettes sales surpass traditional cigarettes?

[DC2]

I think I am going to start referring to this whole mess as "World War Nicotine" from now on.

If we can get the coffee drinkers on our side we can't lose.
But we probably won't, so we very well might.

 

[bunnomatic]

WOW it sounds like Reynolds (with there $30 deluxe Vuse kit and a whopping 3 cartridges!) has arrived to save us all from those little known marketers they have been trying to put out of business for the last few years. Hopefully Reynolds stock will become penny stock soon on its way to eventually being good for nothing but wall paper.

 

[Bill Godshall]

VapinGreek critiques VUSE (mostly thumbs down)
The VUSE by RJR Tobacco Company - YouTube

 

[Bill Godshall]

DC2 inquired

Bill, I thought I remembered you saying previously that our 5,000+ comments on the FDA website had some effect on them?

The clearly had an impact on the FDA, as the agency has tried to bury all of the comments and the testimony by vapers at the Dec 17th hearing.

That's why the FDA still (4 months later) has only posted about 75 of the 5,336 comments that were submitted to the docket, while the FDA's Report to Congress on Section 918 not only failed to acknowledge that any comments or testimony was submitted by vapers, but it also misrepresented comments by vapers as if they were endorsing long term nicotine maintenance using NRT.

I just don't think the FDA considers the views of vapers to be very important in their drafting of the deeming regulation and additional regulations for e-cigarettes.

What the FDA truly cares about are the legal arguments made against the deeming regulation by e-cig company lawyers and some of us with connections to those lawyers, the views of federal judges who might adjudicate a lawsuit against the FDA, and the views/actions of Republicans on the House E&C Committee (who have oversight over FDA activities and funding).

Secondarily, the FDA cares about the views of drug companies and their funded PR/lobbying front groups (CTFK, ACS, AHA, ALA, Legacy, Pinney Associates, ATTUD, etc.), and the views of large tobacco companies.

The concerns of vapers are way down on the FDA priority list, as the agency still doesn't even consider tobacco consumers as Stakeholders in FDA tobacco regulation.

But that doesn't mean vapers shouldn't continue criticizing FDA, testifying at hearings, and submitting lots of comments to relevant dockets.

If/when the deeming regulations and additional regs for e-cigs are proposed, it is critically important that the vaping community massively mobilize and submit hundreds of thousands of public comments to the agency's docket. That's when the FDA should begin to view the vaping community as a force to be reckoned with.

 

[Petrodus]

VapinGreek critiques VUSE (mostly thumbs down)
The VUSE by RJR Tobacco Company - YouTube

What really is surprising to me is how a large company like RJ would
roll out such a piece of junk thinking they will be capturing a part of the market.

E-cigarettes are no big secret any more and there are e-cig shops opening
up in cities almost daily across the country...where the public can walk in
and see and experience not only quality e-cigs but can try out different flavors.

Didn't RJ even include any e-smokers in their Research and Development division ??
Obviously not ... Metal mouth piece and crappy flavor ??

 

[Stubby]

What really is surprising to me is how a large company like RJ would
roll out such a piece of junk thinking they will be capturing a part of the market.

E-cigarettes are no big secret any more and there are e-cig shops opening
up in cities almost daily across the country...where the public can walk in
and see and experience not only quality e-cigs but can try out different flavors.

Didn't RJ even include any e-smokers in their Research and Development division ??
Obviously not ... Metal mouth piece and crappy flavor ??

Just look at the sub-standard Camel snus compared to the good stuff from Sweden. It's overly sweet and underpowered. I have to wonder just what their agenda really is. In the past I was giving them the benefit of the doubt and was glad they appeared to be moving into THR in a serious way, but as of late I am losing faith in RJR.

 

[Petrodus]

Just look at the sub-standard Camel snus compared to the good stuff from Sweden. It's overly sweet and underpowered. I have to wonder just what their agenda really is. In the past I was giving them the benefit of the doubt and was glad they appeared to be moving into THR in a serious way, but as of late I am losing faith in RJR.

Very interesting !!
There has to be reasons and a money trail.
It will only make common sense IF we knew their "true" agendas.

 

[zoiDman]

...

I was joking with a friend recently ...
Told him we should declare the e-cig movement as a conservative right wing movement
and put the word out the government is unfairly targeting us ... That would make everyone
back-off and rethink everything before continuing their attacks.

Man... I hope you didn't say that while on a Verizon Cell Phone.

LOL

 

[Petrodus]

Man... I hope you didn't say that while on a Verizon Cell Phone.
LOL

This government is more crooked than Roller Derby

 

[zoiDman]

This government is more crooked than Roller Derby

Yeah... And Not as Fun to Watch.

 

[RadarLuv1]

Does this dude think he is Steve Jobs, or what???

Anywho, I hopes this helps people. The crappy throw away's got my foot in the door, so I can't knock them, I just hope peeps research and not blow ALL their money on sub-standard devices.

 

[wv2win]

Money Talks and the rest including the FDA walks

I suggest the FDA can play any game they wish ...
However, the e-cig movement around the world will
find the "work arounds" and continue to thrive (period)

The E-cig movement is NOT confined to areas the FDA
can effectively regulate. Its an electronic hobby revolution
and will continue to evolve regardless of what "Mommie FDA" says.

We here on the ECF only represent a TINY TINY TINY portion of the movement.
Smokers are switching to e-smoking every day by the thousands !!!
The e-smoking public demands and will get what they want and that is
products that will continue to evolve over time. E-cigarettes and MODs are
here to stay.

E-smokers around the world are NOT going to buckle down and go with the FDA's
limits on products ... NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. The FDA simply can't shut down or
control an enormously enthusiastic popular world-wide e-smoking electronic hobby.

In other words ... The FDA can just go suck eggs.
The world is not going to accept only high priced e-cigs with pre-filled carts
sold only in stores ... The hobby will drive the market ... MILLIONS of Dollars
to be made satisfying the Hobby and Money Talks and the Rest Walks !!

There will always be "mainstream" consumers buying cig-a-ikes in stores
with pre-filled carts...However, the hobbyist will drive the market for
those who want more.

I sense the public has just about had it with the government and its agencies
sticking their over-reaching noses in the public's private lives including telling us
what we can and can't do.

I hope you are right. BUT, if the FDA gets legislation that restricts eliquid to sealed carts, they have already proven that they will use the full force of the federal government to stop people from recieving international shipments of products that are legal in other countries. The hoops we would have to jump through to vape as we do now, could be difficult and costly.

 

[Hitmetwice]

Ahhh Man...I couldn't get past the intro on this..."We at Reynolds American have a history of innovation and of leading change"

Hey buddy you've been making a stinking product that kills people for how long now?
Innovation? What, new pack design? Change? Increase of the addictive qualities in your tobacco?
Get lost RJR. Screw you!

I'm going back now to listen to the rest of the BS that BT is spewing now. Should be worth a laugh or two.

 

[Vocalek]

I hope you are right. BUT, if the FDA gets legislation that restricts eliquid to sealed carts, they have already proven that they will use the full force of the federal government to stop people from recieving international shipments of products that are legal in other countries. The hoops we would have to jump through to vape as we do now, could be difficult and costly.

However if the FDA does so, it can rightfully be accused of protecting the market for tobacco companies, and that doesn't fly well with the ANTZ. Also, the current director of the FDA's Center for Tobacco Products has gone on record stating that they intend to base regulations on science. If held to that standard, FDA would be forced to prove scientifically that prefilled cartridges are safer, more effective, or less costly than refillables.

We know they are not less costly, and we know from personal experience that they are not more effective (most of us had to move to DIY in order to get sufficient nicotine to stop using combustible cigarettes), so the only playing field would be the safety question. And if refillables are more effective, than the safety of liquids in bottles would need to be weighed against the safety of continuing to smoke.

 

[wv2win]

However if the FDA does so, it can rightfully be accused of protecting the market for tobacco companies, and that doesn't fly well with the ANTZ. Also, the current director of the FDA's Center for Tobacco Products has gone on record stating that they intend to base regulations on science. If held to that standard, FDA would be forced to prove scientifically that prefilled cartridges are safer, more effective, or less costly than refillables.

We know they are not less costly, and we know from personal experience that they are not more effective (most of us had to move to DIY in order to get sufficient nicotine to stop using combustible cigarettes), so the only playing field would be the safety question. And if refillables are more effective, than the safety of liquids in bottles would need to be weighed against the safety of continuing to smoke.

I like your reasoning but I have my doubts that your common sense approach and the FDA's reasoning will be the same. We already know they are not above "basically" out-right lying, as they did in 2009 with the tests they did on the 18 Njoy/SE carts. I can see them stating that out of concern for the "safety of the children", sealed carts are the only safe alternative. But if every eliquid seller provides their bottles with child-proof caps, they really can't make that claim as they already allow dangerous medicine in child proof bottles to be sold.

Basically I don't trust the FDA, BT or BP. None of those three entities care about the welfare and health of the average person. If I were to accurately describe how I feel about the upper management of the FDA, I would get banned for the stream of verbage I would use. They represent everything that is wrong with our government.

 

[Petrodus]

The only true fix for our government
is an old fashion French Revolution
with that world famous big blade !!

 

[Katya]

The only true fix for our government
is an old fashion French Revolution
with that world famous big blade !!

That one didn't end well...

Just sayin'.

 

[Petrodus]

That one didn't end well...
Just sayin'.

Didn't end well for the ruling class

 

[Katya]

Didn't end well for the ruling class

Keep reading...

“Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes;[...]”

 

[Bill Godshall]

Fox Business interviews Reynolds CEO Daniel Delen about Vuse
Is Vuse a

RJ Reynolds press release on Vuse
http://files.shareholder.com/downlo..._Co_bringing_VUSE_digital_vapor_cig_to_CO.pdf