Voice of reason...

[NealBJr]

I am sure this has been discussed before, but I haven't seen anything about this. They claim that Ecigarettes cannot be labeled as a smoking cessation device. My question is, While you are vaping, isn't that considered not smoking? Even if you vape for 10 minutes, that's 10 minutes of NON smoking?

That just struck me as being the most absurd ruling I can think of. HOWEVER, it is ok to:

Promote other tobacco products(snus, dip, etc) as a means of quitting smoking (which is a tobacco product)
promote a nicotine inhaler as a means of quitting smoking (isn't that in essence what an ecig is?)
Tax Ecigarettes like cigarettes, yet NOT tax pipe tobacco. (does the method matter?)

Sometimes it is just hair pulling crazy out there. I honestly think they're coming out with these new taxes not to dissuade people from buying Ecigarettes, but to increase revenue. I honestly believe that they took something that people are addicted to, and increased the tax KNOWING people were addicted, thus forcing them to pay tax on something they were addicted to.

If Ecigarettes had zero nicotine, does that mean they would have zero increase in tax since NO part of it would be derived from tobacco? should devices made for the zero nicotine e-juice be taxed the same as a nicotine ejuice? could hardware manufacturers label their devices as "vaporizers" or "portable fog machines" and just get over any sort of tax?

The whole idea that they claim it ont he same level as a cigarette is just downright nuts.

 

[KODIAK (TM)]

If Ecigarettes had zero nicotine, does that mean they would have zero increase in tax since NO part of it would be derived from tobacco?

They would still be taxed because anything sticking out of your mouth is a "gateway" to tobacco and we have to protect the lil' kiddies from that.

The anti-vaping jury left the building a long time ago. It doesn't matter what logic, reasoning, science or voodoo you throw at them. It's all about the mon... err, children.

 

[ScottP]

All smoking cessation products are treated as pharmaceuticals. These include OTC stuff like patches, gum, and lozenges as well as prescription stuff like Chantix and Welbutrine. Snus, dip and such are considered tobacco alternatives, NOT cessation products. Trust me when I say you do NOT want ecigs to be handled like a cessation product under the umbrella of Big Pharma.

 

[mykereid]

Maybe give you some insight into the impact and influence of Big Tobacco on American politics. People discouraged from using tobacco alternatives may continue to pay outrageous prices for the luxury of killing themselves.

 

[klynnn]

Personally I think if people stopped having children the problem would be solved. Since they don't seem to want to support or be responsible for them that really is the next step.

 

[NealBJr]

All smoking cessation products are treated as pharmaceuticals. These include OTC stuff like patches, gum, and lozenges as well as prescription stuff like Chantix and Welbutrine. Snus, dip and such are considered tobacco alternatives, NOT cessation products. Trust me when I say you do NOT want ecigs to be handled like a cessation product under the umbrella of Big Pharma.

what about hypnosis? Counselling/therapy? are those taxed as well? The fact that there is a tax on cigarettes themselves I never did agree with. They are technically a "smoking alternative". When I use an Ecig, I am not smoking. I am doing an alternative method of getting nicotine. It has done quite well in that aspect. The problem rises though, is an alternative a cessation method? I want to know exactly WHAT they are taxing in an Ecigarette. The nicotine? the propylene glycol? the lithium ion battery? Kanthal? what is the offending part on the device that has to be taxed?. And most importantly, WHY is it being taxed?

 

[ScottP]

Hypnosis, therapy, etc are services not products. What they will tax is undecided. Add to the why...it's all about the Benjamin's.

 

[Purplepeeps]

All smoking cessation products are treated as pharmaceuticals. These include OTC stuff like patches, gum, and lozenges as well as prescription stuff like Chantix and Welbutrine. Snus, dip and such are considered tobacco alternatives, NOT cessation products. Trust me when I say you do NOT want ecigs to be handled like a cessation product under the umbrella of Big Pharma.

Oh wonderful Chantix, just Look at all of the side effects. This crap is ok to put in our bodies but e liquid is not?
Bad Side Effects of Chantix | LIVESTRONG.COM

 

[Yankez]

And most importantly, WHY is it being taxed?

How else are the politicians supposed to pay for their annual vacations in the Caribbean.

IMO the whole tax / regulation issue is solely because the government needs to have control.

Anarchists like us vapers can not be allowed to roam about unmonitored. Were that allowed..it would just escalate from there.

The whole "gateway " gimmick about kids is a farce. Were it not, the Popeye candy cigarettes we had as kids would have been regulated and taxed. After all, is that not implying to children that smoking tastes good and should be done

 

[leerm8680]

It all comes down to revenue. Washington State has one of the highest sin tax for tobacco products in the country, and I'm not paying it anymore. I'm not alone with this train of thought. The elected representatives in Olympia notice the decreases sin tax revenue and the increase in e-cigarettes in the state.

"Let's tax it!”

On one hand, the Government spends a large sum of money on smoking cessation programs and other health programs. If the Washingtonians are not smoking and healthier, then medical costs will decrease. On the other hand, if the smokers keep smoking there will be more sin tax revenue and tobacco settlement monies from big tobacco.

Has anyone met a politician who didn't care about increasing the revenue?

Classifying e-juice as a tobacco product is just a sly way of replacing the revenue lost when we stopped paying sin tax. Basically we are being taxed for the "sins" we are no longer committing. This is nothing but general d@#chbaggery and/or cheesedorkery at its finest.

 

[klynnn]

If nothing else the whole vaping issue has begun to wake the sheeple up to what is happening in this county. Although we are a minority we have friends and family who are becoming aware and that is good.

 

[ScottP]

If you want to understand the government and taxes, just think of the government as a very large and powerful organized crime family. The taxes are their ill-gotten income streams. If you try to shut one stream down, they will find a new way to extort money from the people. It doesn't have to make sense, it just has to make money.

 

[Purplepeeps]

From NY State Quit Smoking site: I shouldn't read this crap...get's me all worked up!








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What is in Cigarettes
Cigarette Chemistry
Nicotine Facts
Light Cigarette Lies
E-Cigarettes
Menthol Cigarettes
Filters may be killers
Secondhand Smoke
Tobacco Trivia
Tobacco Facts


E-Cigarettes: Know the Facts
E-cigarettes should not be used to replace smoking





What is an E-cigarette?
•E-cigarettes are battery-powered devices that deliver nicotine through a flavored vapor.
•They are made so users can feel like they are inhaling tobacco smoke, without the burning tobacco that occurs with a cigarette.



Are E-cigarettes safe?
•We do not know if e-cigarettes are safe. The e-cigarette is not currently approved by the FDA as a safe and effective method to help smokers quit.
•E-cigarettes release secondhand vapor (not smoke) that can be seen and smelled. Further research is needed to determine any health related consequences.



What do we know about the E-Cigarette?
•The the amount of nicotine in an e-cigarette is unknown. Although the e-cigarette cartridges are advertised with specific amounts of nicotine, the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) testing has shown that their actual amounts do not always match the labeling.
•An FDA study* found that the e-cigarette products contained toxic chemicals- including the ingredient found in anti-freeze.
•More research is needed to find out what other ingredients are in the e-cigarettes and what kind of health or other effects they have on people who use them.



What does this information mean?
•E-cigarettes should not be used to replace smoking because there is no scientific proof that they can help smokers quit.
•FDA approved medications such as nicotine patches or Chantix® are proven to help smokers quit and should be used.
•Medications approved by the FDA in combination with individual or group counseling are shown to be the most successful ways to help smokers quit.

It is important to talk with a health care provider when considering alternatives.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

* Westenberger, B.J. , “Evaluation of E-cigarettes. 2009, FDA, Center for Drug Evaluation and Research, Division of Pharmaceutical Analysis: St. Louis, MO.

 

[FlamingoTutu]

If you want to know why states are upset, take a look at this post http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...alculator-here-please-add-your-data-list.html and follow the link. It used to be a stickie here until they switched servers. That’s just the money the states are losing by the number of people that have added their data. Imagine if everyone added theirs. Then try to wrap your brain around how much money BT and BP are losing due to people vaping and actually quitting cigarettes. No telling how much the medical industry is losing by loss of cancer, emphysema, etc. patients.

 

[Miira]

Smoking has been demonized for 30 years. Vaping looks like smoking. It's going to take a lot of education and time for reason to prevail.

 

[Purplepeeps]

I wonder if the NA Indian tribes here in NY are considering the e-cig market? For years that's where I bought my cigarettes, tax free. They manufacture and sell only their brands of cigs.

 

[Miira]

I honestly don't think money is the primary motivating factor here. Regulating/banning vaping allows lawmakers to say they're looking out for the citizenry without actually doing much. Smokers, and now vapers, are safe targets for this sort of thing due to decades of anti-smoking propaganda.

 

[ScottP]

I honestly don't think money is the primary motivating factor here. Regulating/banning vaping allows lawmakers to say they're looking out for the citizenry without actually doing much. Smokers, and now vapers, are safe targets for this sort of thing due to decades of anti-smoking propaganda.

Nobody is trying to ban it though. They want 75%-95% taxes on it. If that's not straight up extortion, then I don't know what is.

 

[Miira]

95% tax rates are likely to kill any young industry, without having to ban anything. It's easier to justify and explain away a tax than an outright ban. There's also the problem that banning e-cigs will lead for an increased push to ban tobacco, which they aren't ready to do. Not wanting to ban cigarettes, I believe IS purely motivated by money, and not taxes, but campaign contributions.