This is a continuation of the ground breaking Rayon Wick - better flow, flavor, saturation, and nic hit!! thread.
That thread is ground zero of the rayon movement, where it all started. It was a place of joy and excitement as Rayon exploded onto the scene spreading like wild fire.
The original thread located - here - is full of information, pictures, tips, how to's, and 100s of raving reviews... There was also a lot of good times.. I couldn't begin to compile the vast amount of great posts that everyone should see... But the thread is archived so it will be viewable for many years to come.
Please search the original thread for ideas and useful information; as about everything has been covered to some extent.
The goal is to allow the opportunity for each person to try rayon, so they can decide for themselves if its the game changer we all know it is.
-----------
So this is where your wondering: what is rayon going to do for me?
Rayon Wick
- wicks better
- lasts 10 times longer
- increased coil saturation
- has a pure neutral taste
- its good till the last drop
- its sturdy, holds its shape, and stays put.
- it releases juice freely to the coil
- increases nicotine hit
- its extremely efficient (thin the tails)
- the vapor produced is a more vaporized mist that provides higher absorption of nicotine and flavoring components. (Its estimated that a 20-30% increase occurs)
- its super high efficiency provides Ultra Clean vaporization for minimal if any gunking after 100s of mls (juice dependant)
- highly resistant to burning when it has juice within reach
- Rayon can speak to you, by showing any problems
- rayon wick can last a long, long time
- your coils can remain clean up to 10 times longer.
- you can run the entire wick completely dry with rayon - before you even get a dry hit (when wicked correctly)
- low maintenance
- more freedom to just : vape on
- makes vaping more enjoyable by an elimination of many common problems
- With regular mods we have gone 100, 200, and nearly 300ml of juice on rayon with no maintenance!
Is it safe?
- safer than cotton
- evidence shows vaping is safer with rayon
The next thing I will address is the safety question, as ridiculous as it is.. Since some tried to scare the community from this amazing material because they don't understand it; or chemistry.
Rayon Wick is pure cellulose, more pure than can be found in nature. Cellulose is the building block of plants throughout the world. You eat cellulose daily. Rayon has been around for 150 years. It has been highly studied.
No one has been able to produce any scientific evidence or proof that there is anything, whatsoever, of concern in Rayon fiber.
Its used by surgens, labs for testing biological samples because its purity doesn't contaminate the samples like cotton. Cellulose made by an identical viscose method is also used in Food products like sausage casings.
Rayon from many different manufactures has been tested by oeko-tex, world leading textile safety tester, and it has been certified free from any harmful contaminates and even those that could be potentially harmful. The FTC defines rayon as pure cellulose.
Rayon -
Cellulose-
http://www.chem.ucla.edu/harding/IGOC/R/rayon.html
Rayon Wick is safer than water. Water has vast magnitudes of more chemicals and contaminates in it than a piece of rayon wick.
Rayon is basically the same as cigarette paper when it burns.. My wicking is unburnt after 300ml at high power so its not even a concern of burning.
Cotton is not a pure cellulose its also the most chemically treated crop in the world. It contains protien components that make it taste bad and reduce wicking. However you can make rayon from cotton plants... and if you did; all the pesticides and protiens would be chemically seperated and the final product would be pure cellulose.
Why is it safer to vaper with than cotton?
The proof is in the gunk. When juice overheats it gunks. Overheating juice has byproducts that could be unhealthy.
Rayon and the way it works produces very little if any gunk. A fraction of that wich builds up with cotton.
That means your coil stays saturated enough through out the vape that it doesn't overheat to the point of burning the juice.
It is a wick that controls coil temperature in normal use by freely juicing the coil. Cotton absorbs and holds back juice from the coil rayon delivers freely at breakneck speed.
Production-
(Simplified)
Rayon Wick is a cellulose extracted by scientific method from plant materia,l trees mostly, and regenerated into pure fibers. Many things in life are chemically extracted. The components used to extract and reassemble the pure cellulose are not in the final fiber. The beauty of chemistry is knowing exactly how things are going to happen. Its no question, its scientific fact. As much as the earth is round.
I have reviewed possibly hundreds of scientific documents and books, and I have found no cause for concern. Please post your questions or comments here or search the original thread, there are many links to scientific literature and chemistry books on the subject.
Using Rayon Wick
- Use more in the coil than you even think is possible to be able to work.
- Use less in The tails than you even think is possible to be able to work.
Rayon wick works much different than cotton. In many ways its opposite. Anything you know about wicking with cotton should be pushed aside. This is like learning a completely new wick, or like when you learned cotton the first time.. Some are lucky and get the density right away, many others will not! Its seems the less experience or luck you have had with cotton the faster you pick it up..
So you've been vaping for years and consider yourself an expert... You have to be able to be humble and accept the fact that you don't know it all.. as your starting over again, but the benefits are much greater this time.
So how dense does it need to be?
- fairly snug to where you can hardly pull it through anymore without finagling. The coil should be pulling its so snug.
- there is a distinct squeak type vibration that can be felt and heard while pulling the fiber through the coil when its getting tight enough. I usually shift it side to side to hear the squeak
- it will look huge at first, but after it settles it should have shoulders just at or above the OD of the coil.
- being able to run the rayon wick dry without tc is a sign your density is good.
You need a much tighter density than cotton. More than you think is even possible. Cotton expands but rayon fiber reduces. The reason is because its not a sponge like cotton its an extremely efficient transporter of juice. The juice clings to the outside of the rayon fibers and flows like water through a pipe. Its very fluffy to start and as its wetted down and used the fibers start to align and all the air pockets are expelled. After about 4ml any reducing should be done. Any dry hit from the start through the first day of use indicates a loose wick. You need to use more rayon wick.
In starting to use rayon wicking it should take less than 6 attempts to get it right if you follow a trial and error method. During this time it is recommended to vape at the lower end of power for you. Because you may have the wick become loose in the coil and this will cause the coil to start to dry burn and produce a nasty dry hit from the coil. This taste is not the rayon it is the dry burning coil. Rayon tastes like cigarette paper when it burns.
At anytime if you have a problem ALWAYS inspect the wick.
- check for full contact at the top edge of the coil
- push on Wick to see if it exposes a gap at the edge of the coil
- check coloring of both sides of Wick
- one dark tail shows an imbalance in the wick. Even the system by trimming.
- don't blame Rayon for user error
On to the Tails -
- thin the Tails
- the tail begins where the wick bends.
- A full density wick should only extend to the edge of the deck or chamber wall. The rest is tail and should be clipped down. Some have said it looks similar to a mullet.
- Balance - you need the wick on both sides to be as even as reasonably possible.... Or one side will draw liquid to it and.. out of the coil after firing causing discoloration on one side.
Another complex thing to understand is how this stuff seems to work. Its actions are nothing like cotton. In most attys where you would have a tail going down or to the side you need to thin the Tails substantially from 50 to 90+% of the thicknes - cut right before the bend..
This goes against everything you know.. But do it!
Why?
In most cases when the wick is long enough, it won't work right if you don't !!
The part with the most rayon fiber will draw the most liquid. Tails are also free to expand and open up sucking more juice to them. Because there's more space between the fibers. It will actually reduce the wick speed substantially if you don't thin. The Tails will swell like a billow and draw juice to them and away from the coil.
Full tails will cause draw back from the coil after the hit. Sucking already heated juice back and then forth in an ebb and flow movement. This will refire the juice again causing caramelization and more gunking than a proper Rayon Wick.
Think of the rayon in the coil and main section as the heart of the system. Or like the trunk of a tree. Both of these things have a large central core. But the viens and roots that feed the core of the system are very much smaller than the heart itself.... The tree example fits best, your full wick in the coil is the trunk and the Tails are the roots. Literally just a couple of these roots can supply ample juice to the coil, many of us use paper thin Tails on rda decks.
Rayon has an innate ability it seems to keep its fibers evenly wet and protect itself from burning. But you don't want the Rayon wicking to keep an even saturation through to the Tails. You want to force it to heep the coil area the most saturated. This is done by trimming the tail density down considerably.
Heres a recent build in a FEV v3 , in dripper mode or tank mode. no problem at 40w dripping. The deck will go dry before the coil does.
That thread is ground zero of the rayon movement, where it all started. It was a place of joy and excitement as Rayon exploded onto the scene spreading like wild fire.
The original thread located - here - is full of information, pictures, tips, how to's, and 100s of raving reviews... There was also a lot of good times.. I couldn't begin to compile the vast amount of great posts that everyone should see... But the thread is archived so it will be viewable for many years to come.
Please search the original thread for ideas and useful information; as about everything has been covered to some extent.
The goal is to allow the opportunity for each person to try rayon, so they can decide for themselves if its the game changer we all know it is.
-----------
So this is where your wondering: what is rayon going to do for me?
Rayon Wick
- wicks better
- lasts 10 times longer
- increased coil saturation
- has a pure neutral taste
- its good till the last drop
- its sturdy, holds its shape, and stays put.
- it releases juice freely to the coil
- increases nicotine hit
- its extremely efficient (thin the tails)
- the vapor produced is a more vaporized mist that provides higher absorption of nicotine and flavoring components. (Its estimated that a 20-30% increase occurs)
- its super high efficiency provides Ultra Clean vaporization for minimal if any gunking after 100s of mls (juice dependant)
- highly resistant to burning when it has juice within reach
- Rayon can speak to you, by showing any problems
- rayon wick can last a long, long time
- your coils can remain clean up to 10 times longer.
- you can run the entire wick completely dry with rayon - before you even get a dry hit (when wicked correctly)
- low maintenance
- more freedom to just : vape on
- makes vaping more enjoyable by an elimination of many common problems
- With regular mods we have gone 100, 200, and nearly 300ml of juice on rayon with no maintenance!
Is it safe?
- safer than cotton
- evidence shows vaping is safer with rayon
The next thing I will address is the safety question, as ridiculous as it is.. Since some tried to scare the community from this amazing material because they don't understand it; or chemistry.
Rayon Wick is pure cellulose, more pure than can be found in nature. Cellulose is the building block of plants throughout the world. You eat cellulose daily. Rayon has been around for 150 years. It has been highly studied.
No one has been able to produce any scientific evidence or proof that there is anything, whatsoever, of concern in Rayon fiber.
Its used by surgens, labs for testing biological samples because its purity doesn't contaminate the samples like cotton. Cellulose made by an identical viscose method is also used in Food products like sausage casings.
Rayon from many different manufactures has been tested by oeko-tex, world leading textile safety tester, and it has been certified free from any harmful contaminates and even those that could be potentially harmful. The FTC defines rayon as pure cellulose.
Rayon -
Cellulose-
http://www.chem.ucla.edu/harding/IGOC/R/rayon.html
Rayon Wick is safer than water. Water has vast magnitudes of more chemicals and contaminates in it than a piece of rayon wick.
Rayon is basically the same as cigarette paper when it burns.. My wicking is unburnt after 300ml at high power so its not even a concern of burning.
Cotton is not a pure cellulose its also the most chemically treated crop in the world. It contains protien components that make it taste bad and reduce wicking. However you can make rayon from cotton plants... and if you did; all the pesticides and protiens would be chemically seperated and the final product would be pure cellulose.
Why is it safer to vaper with than cotton?
The proof is in the gunk. When juice overheats it gunks. Overheating juice has byproducts that could be unhealthy.
Rayon and the way it works produces very little if any gunk. A fraction of that wich builds up with cotton.
That means your coil stays saturated enough through out the vape that it doesn't overheat to the point of burning the juice.
It is a wick that controls coil temperature in normal use by freely juicing the coil. Cotton absorbs and holds back juice from the coil rayon delivers freely at breakneck speed.
Production-
(Simplified)
Rayon Wick is a cellulose extracted by scientific method from plant materia,l trees mostly, and regenerated into pure fibers. Many things in life are chemically extracted. The components used to extract and reassemble the pure cellulose are not in the final fiber. The beauty of chemistry is knowing exactly how things are going to happen. Its no question, its scientific fact. As much as the earth is round.
I have reviewed possibly hundreds of scientific documents and books, and I have found no cause for concern. Please post your questions or comments here or search the original thread, there are many links to scientific literature and chemistry books on the subject.
Using Rayon Wick
- Use more in the coil than you even think is possible to be able to work.
- Use less in The tails than you even think is possible to be able to work.
Rayon wick works much different than cotton. In many ways its opposite. Anything you know about wicking with cotton should be pushed aside. This is like learning a completely new wick, or like when you learned cotton the first time.. Some are lucky and get the density right away, many others will not! Its seems the less experience or luck you have had with cotton the faster you pick it up..
So you've been vaping for years and consider yourself an expert... You have to be able to be humble and accept the fact that you don't know it all.. as your starting over again, but the benefits are much greater this time.
So how dense does it need to be?
- fairly snug to where you can hardly pull it through anymore without finagling. The coil should be pulling its so snug.
- there is a distinct squeak type vibration that can be felt and heard while pulling the fiber through the coil when its getting tight enough. I usually shift it side to side to hear the squeak
- it will look huge at first, but after it settles it should have shoulders just at or above the OD of the coil.
- being able to run the rayon wick dry without tc is a sign your density is good.
You need a much tighter density than cotton. More than you think is even possible. Cotton expands but rayon fiber reduces. The reason is because its not a sponge like cotton its an extremely efficient transporter of juice. The juice clings to the outside of the rayon fibers and flows like water through a pipe. Its very fluffy to start and as its wetted down and used the fibers start to align and all the air pockets are expelled. After about 4ml any reducing should be done. Any dry hit from the start through the first day of use indicates a loose wick. You need to use more rayon wick.
In starting to use rayon wicking it should take less than 6 attempts to get it right if you follow a trial and error method. During this time it is recommended to vape at the lower end of power for you. Because you may have the wick become loose in the coil and this will cause the coil to start to dry burn and produce a nasty dry hit from the coil. This taste is not the rayon it is the dry burning coil. Rayon tastes like cigarette paper when it burns.
At anytime if you have a problem ALWAYS inspect the wick.
- check for full contact at the top edge of the coil
- push on Wick to see if it exposes a gap at the edge of the coil
- check coloring of both sides of Wick
- one dark tail shows an imbalance in the wick. Even the system by trimming.
- don't blame Rayon for user error
On to the Tails -
- thin the Tails
- the tail begins where the wick bends.
- A full density wick should only extend to the edge of the deck or chamber wall. The rest is tail and should be clipped down. Some have said it looks similar to a mullet.
- Balance - you need the wick on both sides to be as even as reasonably possible.... Or one side will draw liquid to it and.. out of the coil after firing causing discoloration on one side.
Another complex thing to understand is how this stuff seems to work. Its actions are nothing like cotton. In most attys where you would have a tail going down or to the side you need to thin the Tails substantially from 50 to 90+% of the thicknes - cut right before the bend..
This goes against everything you know.. But do it!
Why?
In most cases when the wick is long enough, it won't work right if you don't !!
The part with the most rayon fiber will draw the most liquid. Tails are also free to expand and open up sucking more juice to them. Because there's more space between the fibers. It will actually reduce the wick speed substantially if you don't thin. The Tails will swell like a billow and draw juice to them and away from the coil.
Full tails will cause draw back from the coil after the hit. Sucking already heated juice back and then forth in an ebb and flow movement. This will refire the juice again causing caramelization and more gunking than a proper Rayon Wick.
Think of the rayon in the coil and main section as the heart of the system. Or like the trunk of a tree. Both of these things have a large central core. But the viens and roots that feed the core of the system are very much smaller than the heart itself.... The tree example fits best, your full wick in the coil is the trunk and the Tails are the roots. Literally just a couple of these roots can supply ample juice to the coil, many of us use paper thin Tails on rda decks.
Rayon has an innate ability it seems to keep its fibers evenly wet and protect itself from burning. But you don't want the Rayon wicking to keep an even saturation through to the Tails. You want to force it to heep the coil area the most saturated. This is done by trimming the tail density down considerably.
Heres a recent build in a FEV v3 , in dripper mode or tank mode. no problem at 40w dripping. The deck will go dry before the coil does.
