Does the MOD really Matter

[EddardinWinter]

Again, I apologized for quoting you, my line of reasoning goes back over several posts by several people.

Trolling? I'm not the one implying that ProVape gives away free warranties while Evolv doesn't stand by their products.

More than once people tried to make it look like Evolv refused to service their products and honor their warranties.

It's simply not true.

I listed several exceptional regulating systems.
I also pointed out that the regulation circuits alone do not necessarily make a good all around mod.

Out of ALL that information, someone felt it was necessary to pick the very first product of the lot...and Bash Darwins and Evolv.

Who is trolling?


There is nothing wrong with the Darwin's voltage/wattage regulator. Never has been.

You are trolling. Oz just answered your questions and you are jumping to wild conclusions based on his answers. He never said or implied ProVape is ripping anyone off with their warranty, but you attempted to put those words into his statements. That's trolling.


Find something constructive to do.



Tapped out

 

[Credo]

You are trolling. Oz just answered your questions and you are jumping to wild conclusions based on his answers. He never said or implied ProVape is ripping anyone off with their warranty, but you attempted to put those words into his statements. That's trolling.


Find something constructive to do.



Tapped out

If they don't 'bother to check'....then that's what is happening.
Some people get free warranties if they are not checking.
While others foolishly pay extra for it.

This is not a WILD conclusion.

The WILD CONCLUSION is the earlier post that the Darwin was SO BAD that Brandon refused to honor transferred warranties at Evolv. He probably simply asked for the original invoice so he could check the battery half of the warranty. I personally have had very different experiences. Evolv has bent over backwards to keep me happily vaping.


I'm done here...gidday.

 

[Thrasher]

If they don't 'bother to check'....then that's what is happening.
Some people get free warranties if they are not checking.
While others foolishly pay extra for it.

This is not a WILD conclusion.

The WILD CONCLUSION is the earlier post that the Darwin was SO BAD that Brandon refused to honor warranties at Evolv. I personally have had very different experiences. Evolv has bent over backwards to keep me happily vaping.


I'm done here...gidday.

WOOOW! lower the nic and get dome decaf bro.


noone implied anything. evolv has always stood behind the darwin
But
several times now they have brushed off people with kick problems, sorry if it tweaks you out but its a fact you have to stay on top of them to get anything other then generic replies when having problems..

 

[PLANofMAN]

So you're saying if I sent in one of the older Provari units they would not even bother to check and see if it's under warranty? They'd just fix it at no charge? Someone who did NOT buy the extended service gets the same treatment as someone who did?

Does this mean people who BUY the extra warranty are being RIPPED OFF?

I have heard of people sending in ProVari's to be fixed or serviced and ProVape has done the repair or service for free. This was on defective units, so I'm sure a regular upgrade or service would fall under warranty.

A unit damaged by (or while in the care of) the customer would not be fixed for free. It would either be under warranty or not.

Defective=ProVape fixes at their discretion.
Damaged=You pay or it's covered under warranty.

Either way, if you pay for an extended warranty for a ProVari, you're pretty much wasting money. If ProVari's have any issues, those will pretty much all show up in the first year of ownership.

So yes, they are getting ripped off. Just not for the reasons you implied.

 

[Credo]

WOOOW! lower the nic and get dome decaf bro.


noone implied anything. evolv has always stood behind the darwin
But
several times now they have brushed off people with kick problems, sorry if it tweaks you out but its a fact you have to stay on top of them to get anything other then generic replies when having problems..

I'm terribly confused now.
Generic replies?
You mean like a check list of things to try before concluding it's a defective unit?
Isn't that standard practice for any mass produced electronic gadget; particularly, one that is easy to match with the wrong battery, or damage by mis-use?

Please be more specific. Tell me about the process you went through when your Kick failed to work as promoted.

There's a pretty serious double standard going on here.
The Provari never fails, and never has an unhappy customer, yet they don't bother to ask if someone sends one in for warranty repair. We've all heard that...so if people are sending some in, then some must be needing some kind of attention.

There aren't any long lists of standard check-lists for Provari users, nor terms of warranty (like ONLY USE AW brand batteries or the warrant is VOID), and on and on....

But heaven forbid any other company 'ask questions', has FAQs, terms and conditions, etc....

See, I have no issue with the ProVari...it's a fine PV (other than wanting $27 dollars for an end cap with no option to get that one in the first place) by a fine company. I'm familiar with the area it's made, so I understand the price they ask for.

I do get terribly tired of all the double talk. ProVari never fails, but you can be a sucker and buy an extra warranty, but it's not important, it won't be checked if you do send it in for some reason....

ProVape is the PERFECT SHOP...
All others are FAIL on all fronts...
We get it!

 

[Credo]

I have heard of people sending in ProVari's to be fixed or serviced and ProVape has done the repair or service for free. This was on defective units, so I'm sure a regular upgrade or service would fall under warranty.

A unit damaged by (or while in the care of) the customer would not be fixed for free. It would either be under warranty or not.

Defective=ProVape fixes at their discretion.
Damaged=You pay or it's covered under warranty.

Either way, if you pay for an extended warranty for a ProVari, you're pretty much wasting money. If ProVari's have any issues, those will pretty much all show up in the first year of ownership.

So yes, they are getting ripped off. Just not for the reasons you implied.

All this makes perfect sense.
It sounds like pretty much EVERY US based company designing and making PVs or PV parts that I've ever done business with. Evolv included.

The issue with the Darwin is simple.
A fresh LiPo pack of this is kind of expensive (each one has to be prepped by hand to fit in a Darwin).
It takes a bit of effort to install them.
Hence, the policies of conferring and dealing with their more complex warranties were a little more involved. It's not something that was 'suddenly' sprung on the Darwin community...it was disclosed up front how the Battery would be warranted, and the cost to replace them beyond warranty. To be expected.

 

[PLANofMAN]

ProVari's fail. It's not unheard of, and it happens more often than one might think. It's just that most defective ProVari's fail within two weeks of purchase.

Like a new car, any problems it might have off of the assembly line are all worked out within 6 months, and with the occasisional tune-up (cleaning) will continue to function flawlessly for years to come.

 

[Credo]

ProVari's fail. It's not unheard of, and it happens more often than one might think. It's just that most defective ProVari's fail within two weeks of purchase.

Like a new car, any problems it might have off of the assembly line are all worked out within 6 months, and with the occasisional tune-up (cleaning) will continue to function flawlessly for years to come.

This makes all kinds of sense.

I'd imagine the same holds true for many products out there.

In my particular Darwin case...the issues have all been the battery pack. Not the MOD itself. It only happened once...previous owner disclosed the issue and I had it fixed under warranty. Loved it for more than 2 years, and will again soon

MODS that use a soft-bag type LiPO pack (at least at this stage in the battery tech scene) will be an exception to the rule. If the MOD itself (circuitry and chassis) fails due to a defect, it'll usually be early in the product's life. Those battery packs can be kind of finicky...when they're good, they're VERY GOOD and last for ages. When they're not good...it's hard to say when signs of an issue might pop up. It might be in a few days, or several months.

I like LiPo set-ups (I live in a USB world and have too much other junk to carry around every day, so they make sense for me)...but I also realize that at this stage of battery tech...it's Buyer Beware...you should get around 2ish years out of one minimum, but it's highly possible to get far less.

I've noticed that these days, even High End LiPo mods (Opus/Opus D as examples) tend to have much shorter warranties. I'd put my money on the reason being previous labor issues with replacing dud LiPo packs and/or bad charger chips (if a LiPo soft-pack gets over charged a bit..they can puff up pretty bad).

 

[Racehorse]

I agree about liquid delivery device. The mod is just the thing that holds the battery IMHO. As long as it is capable of driving your delivery device........put an over the counter joyetech 510 atty on a provari, then put a Cisco HH357 on there and you will notice a difference. Do the same thing on a spinner or twist.

 

[glassgal]

Here's the deal with the Provari... if people had problems, they'd complain. I'd complain. Even really nice patient people would complain. There are thousands of people on this forum alone.... how many complaints about Provari have you seen?

The only people who complain about Provari are those who don't have one.

As a new vaper, there are already enough moving parts and things to buy, clean, remember, service, fix, build, mix, etc. If I don't have to worry about the battery... AT ALL... I can focus on the other stuff. If something tastes bad or wrong, I don't have to guess what it is, it's not my battery. And I've heard wonderful things about REO and DNA20 from people. But I've seen complaints about the DNA20 on the forum... As for REO, I still don't get how they work. As a newbie, these words under every single provari on their site means I won't blow up, and using this battery can't kill me, even if I mess up my first RBA build... matter of fact, the only reason I'd be brave enough to TRY a RBA build is because I can do it on a Provari. I do still value my face. I do not see these protections on REO's site anywhere:
16 Second Cutoff
If the button is held down for 16 seconds or longer, the ProVari will shut itself off until the button is released.
If you forget to turn it off before storing it in your pocket or bag, this protects you and prevents the device from activating.

Short Circuit/Atomizer Protection
This protects the ProVari against shorted atomizers/cartomizers.
If this error occurs the ProVari will alert you by displaying E1 on the digital display.
Fix: Remove the atomizer or cartomizer and replace with a different one.

Reverse Battery Protection
Protects against reverse battery installation.

Battery Monitoring/Over-Discharge Protection
The ProVari monitors the battery voltage and will automatically turn off when the battery is discharged.

Amperage Limiting to 3.5 amps
The ProVari Mini will monitor and shut itself off if it detects any excessive over-current conditions. With the new higher amperage limit you can drive plenty of power into a low resistance atomizer or cartomizer.
If this error occurs the ProVari will alert you by displaying E1/E2 on the digital display.
Fix: Lower your voltage setting.

Thermal Monitoring
Shuts the device off if it detects a high temperature condition.
Once the device cools off, it will resume normal operation.
If this error occurs the ProVari will alert you by displaying E3 on the digital display.
Fix: Let the device cool off for several minutes before using again.
(This is a very rare event and something you will most likely never see.)

I don't care what nifty features another battery has if it doesn't offer the above. I don't even particularly care what Provari looks like, it can be shaped and textured like a fresh turd and I'd buy it over a sleek beautiful thing that can blow my face off. For 1/2 a month's worth of Cigs, or a couple of movies, those protections are worth my safety. The fact that Provari ARE beautiful is just a bonus.

 

[PLANofMAN]

I'm not sure when this turned into a ProVari vs. Darwin thread, but I can say that the most times I've ever heard of a ProVari being sent in for repair is twice...and that is really rare. I'm sure there have even been times when they've been sent in 3 or even 4 times, though I've never heard of such.

You've had to send your Darwin in once, and that's fine. But I have read multiple accounts of people sending in their Darwins 4 or 5 times for repair.

The Xbox 360 was a great console too, but I still went through 5 of them in 7 years. It was fun, and worked great, but it wasn't what I would call reliable. I still hear the occasional story of someone still using their launch unit with no problems, but their experience, like yours, is the exception to the rule.

As glassgal posted above, the ProVari has multiple redundant safety features, and she didn't even list the physical safety features. I think ProVari's are kind of ugly, in a "function over form" kind of way. But that is my opinion. I'm biased though, I really don't think there is a better mod made, but there are nicer looking ones, and ones with more bells and whistles, but I'm willing to throw my ProVari against a brick wall to prove it's durability. Can anyone else say the same about their mod of choice? I know eVic owners don't.

 

[Lastlokean]

I think the biggest impact a mod can have is on airflow... At least for things that take air through the 510 connector... However that is easily adjusted with a metal file...

Otherwise the minuscule variance in voltage drop based on different materials / connections is rather irrelevant assuming you keep your contacts freshly clean and sanded. (which most people don't seem to do anyway... Explain the $300 high conductive mod in which the li-ions contacts are un-sanded and oxidized????)

There is the difference in wattage regulation, voltage regulation, current regulation, pulse width modulation, and straight DC mechanical...

IMO most of that is a mute argument because I prefer a straight mechanical system... and I have a B.S. in EE...So I love fancy electronics ucontrollers & good regulated power... Yet, from my perspective everything you put between the physical cell and the heating element consumes power. Unless you are getting into a closed loop system with some semblance of control, which to my knowledge no E-Cig has even attempted, optimal performance lies in straight mechanical systems. Sure the Provari can do 3-6 volts.... But if you want to pull say 20 watts as personal preference all that control is doing is wasting precious mAh... I'd rather build my coil to be .7-.8 ohms. If I want 10 watts I build my coil to be 1.2-1.3 ohms...

Do you honestly constantly change your vape setting throughout the day? Or do you get to a get personal 'sweet spot' and enjoy?

If its the latter I really challenge the $ and mAh being spent on the power control.

 

[EddardinWinter]

If they don't 'bother to check'....then that's what is happening.
Some people get free warranties if they are not checking.
While others foolishly pay extra for it.

This is not a WILD conclusion.

The WILD CONCLUSION is the earlier post that the Darwin was SO BAD that Brandon refused to honor transferred warranties at Evolv. He probably simply asked for the original invoice so he could check the battery half of the warranty. I personally have had very different experiences. Evolv has bent over backwards to keep me happily vaping.


I'm done here...gidday.

If only your last statement had been true...

In your mind:
"ProVari stands behind its warranty=Evolv sucks and Brandon is a liar"
"ProVari will warranty beyond its strict obligation=ProVari is ripping people off by charging a second year warranty"
"ProVari has the best service=Evolv won't service their equipment"

These are wild conclusions.

You argued with Oz even though he never said a word about your pet vendor. You picked three fights in this thread, and the post trail is obvious to anyone who can read. I have no issue with Evolv, DNA mods, or Brandon. ProVari is the gold standard of service and warranty. This is a almost unanimously held industry opinion. I have never heard a single complaint about ProVari service or warranty claims. I have heard many about the DNA mods. Even most of those who don't particularly like ProVari concede that the service and warranty is the best.

Does this make Brandon a crook or Evolv a dishonorable vendor? Absolutely not. But the industry perception is:

ProVape service/warranty > Evolv service/warranty.

Deal with it.

 

[EddardinWinter]

I'm terribly confused now.
Generic replies?
You mean like a check list of things to try before concluding it's a defective unit?
Isn't that standard practice for any mass produced electronic gadget; particularly, one that is easy to match with the wrong battery, or damage by mis-use?

Please be more specific. Tell me about the process you went through when your Kick failed to work as promoted.

There's a pretty serious double standard going on here.
The Provari never fails, and never has an unhappy customer, yet they don't bother to ask if someone sends one in for warranty repair. We've all heard that...so if people are sending some in, then some must be needing some kind of attention.

There aren't any long lists of standard check-lists for Provari users, nor terms of warranty (like ONLY USE AW brand batteries or the warrant is VOID), and on and on....

But heaven forbid any other company 'ask questions', has FAQs, terms and conditions, etc....

See, I have no issue with the ProVari...it's a fine PV (other than wanting $27 dollars for an end cap with no option to get that one in the first place) by a fine company. I'm familiar with the area it's made, so I understand the price they ask for.

I do get terribly tired of all the double talk. ProVari never fails, but you can be a sucker and buy an extra warranty, but it's not important, it won't be checked if you do send it in for some reason....

ProVape is the PERFECT SHOP...
All others are FAIL on all fronts...
We get it!

Your one of those who doesn't let a few facts get in the way of a good story, eh? You are just making stuff up now...

Making up stuff, part I

(other than wanting $27 dollars for an end cap with no option to get that one in the first place)

The price on an end cap is 16.95 for a silver, 19.95 for colors. The cost of coating these devices is passed on to ONLY the customers who use it, just like the coating of the mods themselves.

27 > 19.95 or 16.96.

ProVari Mini Variable Voltage Ecig: Best Variable Voltage E Cig Available!

Making up stuff, Part II

(like ONLY USE AW brand batteries or the warrant is VOID)

Not at all true. The recommended battery is the AW IMR. But any high-drain IMR battery is acceptable. I use eFest 18350s and I have discussed it with ProVape. They simply have tested the mod extensively with AW IMRs, not other brands. This is the battery they recommend that the owner use in the ProVari.

From the website:

Batteries - We recommend only using the approved AW brand 18350 and 18490 with extension cap in the ProVari Mini. All of the batteries that we sell on our website have been tested to work with the ProVari Mini and these are the only cells you should use. Using the wrong battery will void your warranty and could damage the unit. Never use magnets on top of your batteries as this is very dangerous and will void all warranties.

There is a big difference between all the different batteries on the market and a lot of testing has been done on these various batteries. The reason we recommend using AW high drain cells is because these cells can output more current providing the ProVari with the power it needs to operate properly. There are a number of batteries that will cause issues including the Trustfire, Ultrafire and other brands. These batteries cannot handle higher current output and the battery will turn off while in use or cause a low battery alert much sooner than it should because the batteries have a high internal resistance. Please make sure you get the proper AW batteries to use in the ProVari Mini to avoid problems.

From the instruction manual:

Batteries:
We recommend you use IMR high drain 18500 batteries or IMR high drain 18650 batteries with the optional
18650 adapter. This will give you the full range of voltages and the proper power needed to use the device

ProVari Mini Variable Voltage Ecig: Best Variable Voltage E Cig Available! Link for website
http://www.provape.com/v/images/ProVariManual.pdf Link for the manual

Using magnets to turn a flat top into a button top will void the warranty, not the use of another brand of IMR high drain battery. You should get your facts straight, slick. It will prove much less embarrassing for you next time.

The DNA mods are good devices sold by reputable vendors. The ProVari is a good device sold by a reputable vendor. See, that wasn't so hard, was it?

 

[PLANofMAN]

I think the biggest impact a mod can have is on airflow... At least for things that take air through the 510 connector... However that is easily adjusted with a metal file...

Otherwise the minuscule variance in voltage drop based on different materials / connections is rather irrelevant assuming you keep your contacts freshly clean and sanded. (which most people don't seem to do anyway... Explain the $300 high conductive mod in which the li-ions contacts are un-sanded and oxidized????)

There is the difference in wattage regulation, voltage regulation, current regulation, pulse width modulation, and straight DC mechanical...

IMO most of that is a mute argument because I prefer a straight mechanical system... and I have a B.S. in EE...So I love fancy electronics ucontrollers & good regulated power... Yet, from my perspective everything you put between the physical cell and the heating element consumes power. Unless you are getting into a closed loop system with some semblance of control, which to my knowledge no E-Cig has even attempted, optimal performance lies in straight mechanical systems. Sure the Provari can do 3-6 volts.... But if you want to pull say 20 watts as personal preference all that control is doing is wasting precious mAh... I'd rather build my coil to be .7-.8 ohms. If I want 10 watts I build my coil to be 1.2-1.3 ohms...

Do you honestly constantly change your vape setting throughout the day? Or do you get to a get personal 'sweet spot' and enjoy?

If its the latter I really challenge the $ and mAh being spent on the power control.

...and the Mechanical Master Race joins the thread! Lording it over us peons with our regulated mods.

I respect mechanical mods. They are ideal for the hobbiest vaper, one who enjoys making his or her own coils, etc., etc.

I just want to throw a tank on my mod and have it work every time. I don't want to tear it all apart and clean it once a week. I don't want to sand it, I don't want to use a voltmeter to check everything before I use it and I don't want it to blow up in my hand.

With all that being said, I would probably trade my ProVari for a Green Envy iHybrid. (I would buy another one though).

Edit: I leave my settings alone for months at a time. Heh.

 

[GREEN ZOMBIE]

Hahahaha, are you ProVari kids up to no good again?

I own a Derrrr wine... Oops, Darwin I ment.

It sits off to one side of my vape table covered in coil parts and juice, Makes a good stand for tank parts, and the tiny window keeps small screws and pins from rolling off.

Oh... Other things I LOVE about it? Hmmm... Well, Screen flashes, Need 50 adapters to put a tank on it, Then when you pick it up to vape it, It goes limp...

And It looks like a silly chatter box party toy!!!

 

[PLANofMAN]

Hahahaha, are you ProVari kids up to no good again?

I own a Derrrr wine... Oops, Darwin I ment.

It sits off to one side of my vape table covered in coil parts and juice, Makes a good stand for tank parts, and the tiny window keeps small screws and pins from rolling off.

Oh... Other things I LOVE about it? Hmmm... Well, Screen flashes, Need 50 adapters to put a tank on it, Then when you pick it up to vape it, It goes limp...

And It looks like a silly chatter box party toy!!!
View attachment 279865

Lol. Now that is trolling...but a least he owns one, so I guess he's earned the right to praise it in whichever manner he chooses to.

 

[EddardinWinter]

Oh dear.

Watch yourself, talking bad about the DNA. We may have company soon...

 

[EddardinWinter]

...and the Mechanical Master Race joins the thread! Lording it over us peons with our regulated mods.

I respect mechanical mods. They are ideal for the hobbiest vaper, one who enjoys making his or her own coils, etc., etc.

I just want to throw a tank on my mod and have it work every time. I don't want to tear it all apart and clean it once a week. I don't want to sand it, I don't want to use a voltmeter to check everything before I use it and I don't want it to blow up in my hand.

With all that being said, I would probably trade my ProVari for a Green Envy iHybrid. (I would buy another one though).

Edit: I leave my settings alone for months at a time. Heh.

I disagree...slightly.

I never vape anything that is not an RBA or RDA. I own a couple of mech mods. One is a crappy cheap battery tube, the other is a nice-looking Caravella knock-off. They were necessary for me to delve into sub-ohm. You know what that time doing sub-ohm taught me? For me, the flavor sweet spot is between 1.8 ohms and 1.2 ohms for the juices I vape. Sure, the 0.6 ohm coil made more vapor! It also tasted very muted and the throat hit was overwhelming.

I prefer the ProVari for my RBAs because I can get that "fresh battery" vape from every puff in the battery. Every draw is identical to the last, with a nice balance of flavor, throat hit, and vapor. When I use my mechs, it is great for about an hour or two, and then...not so much.

But, mechanical mods can be fun. Everyone should try one!

Happy vaping!

 

[GREEN ZOMBIE]

Lol. Now that is trolling...but a least he owns one, so I guess he's earned the right to praise it in whichever manner he chooses to.

Oops, My bad, I thought I was on the Darwin threads, all 2 of them.

Oh dear.

Watch yourself, talking bad about the DNA. We may have company soon...

Looks both ways... "Then" *Throws Darwin into traffic* I hid the evidence...