E-cigs under fire by an Orwellian Shadowy Cabal

[Kent C]

@Andria.... glad you were in position to take advantage of the situation ...for those who weren't we now have the 'zombie house' crisis, as I saw on the news today

 

[AndriaD]

@Andria.... glad you were in position to take advantage of the situation ...for those who weren't we now have the 'zombie house' crisis, as I saw on the news today

Yep, we've had a couple of those here on our street, but there's a really proactive group around here that buys these foreclosed homes that have been vacant for awhile, fixes them up a bit so that lenders have no issues with the property, and sells them for considerably more than they paid for them but substantially less than their value 5-10 yrs ago -- that's how we got our own home, which was 24 yrs old when we bought it, but looked so well-cared for, we were just stunned. We're 2 miles from the center of Lawrenceville, which means we're basically about 2 miles from most anyplace we need to go -- my husband's work, all the shopping around here, library, bank, everything. Considering what they did to our home's value this year, we figure if live here another 7 yrs -- for a 10-yr total ownership -- the value of the property may have doubled, from what we paid -- we paid just a bit over half what it was worth in 2004, before everything plummeted.

But we really had no choice; the owner of the property we were renting before buying this house was extremely "under water" on her mortgage, and was trying to take it out of our flesh -- our rent was $200/mo more than our mortgage pmts, and she was all set to raise it another $150 -- no way we could have handled it, we were struggling madly as it was. Thank god my stepfather understands business and money, and realized there might never be a better time to buy a home, than 2011. Buying this house literally saved us.

Andria

 

[northhar]

This law contract one by CLS for save the bay with descriptions banning anything inhaled that is not glued down by BP.
savesfbay.org/sites/default/files/news_release/Comp_Smokefree_Places_Ordinance_FINAL_20130104_0.p df

Looks Like they dumped this one.. tried to get it.. but it did not turn up in a search of their site...

BTW.. This thread is scary...


edit: I googled it and got it..

 

[StefanDidak]

BTW.. This thread is scary...

Which is why it's time to get serious and start scaring our opponents.

 

[AgentAnia]

To inject some data relating to OP: I did a bit of "shallow" sleuthing on CLS last night and since I'm feeling a bit lazy today, will simply post the notes I made during the sleuth:

ChangeLab Solutions
2201 Broadway, Suite 502
Oakland CA 94612
510-302-3380
(9/16/14: On a reverse address/phone lookup directory, ChangeLab Solutions is not listed as a business at their given address. Among those businesses listed in the reverse lookup are Manel Kappagoda (business listed as "litigation" w/ no mention of CLS, altho CLS lists her as a staff member), w/ different phone number. Reverse phone # lookup shows owner of # listed on CLS's website as owned by Sabrina Sif Miller Adler, w/ no mention of business affiliation. (Indicates # is voip: Bandwidth.com VoIP in Oakland, CA) Adler is listed on CLS website as staff attorney.

This search was single-source, at whitepages.com.

 

[Bill Godshall]

Following is my recent e-mail exchange with ChangeLab Solutions board member Stephen Sugarman, who is also a law professor at Berkeley, and who sent me an e-mail falsely claiming that my statement (in my weekly THR Update) claiming ChangeLab Solutions received funding from Big Pharma was inaccurate and requested me to make a correction.

His reply (at the bottom of this post) to my reply was truly amazing (and pathetic).


Sep 20, 2014 07:01:35 PM, ssugarman@law.berkeley.edu wrote:

Dear Bill Godshall,

I read your updates with great interest and I have considerable
sympathy with your views on e-cigs. I recently had a splendid
discussion with Clive Barnes on this topic in London.

I write, however, to correct a statement you made in your recent
update. See below.

"Big Pharma funded ALA lobbies Piedmont (CA) to ban vaping under
deceitful guise of banning smoking, proposed bill (i.e. Big Pharma
funded Change Lab Solution’s model ordinance) would ban vaping in
100% of workplaces, ban smoking in just 1%.
http://www.ci.piedmont.ca.us/html/govern/staffreports/2014-09-15/smoking.pdf
City Council to consider ALA’s proposed vaping ban on September 15
http://www.ci.piedmont.ca.us/html/govern/agendas/2014-09-15.pdf"

I am on the Board of Directors of ChangeLab Solutions. ChangeLab
Solutions has never received funding from the pharmaceutical
industry for any of its work.

So, I ask you please both to correct this error and stop making this
assertion. You are free, of course, to criticize both the model
ordinance and whatever Piedmont does.

Thanks

Steve Sugarman


On Sep 22, 2014, at 12:33 PM, billgodshall@verizon.net wrote:

Steve,

I find it quite hypocritical (and disingenuous) for you to ask me to correct something in my e-mail (that was stated on many ChangeLabSolutions documents), while you have served on the board of CLS, whose staff and documents have knowingly and intentionally made many dozens (perhaps hundreds) of false and misleading fear mongering claims about e-cigs, OTP, and flavorings during the past several years to lobby for cigarette protecting policies and laws that threaten the lives of vapers, smokers and 2nd hand smokers.

If you truly desired the truth to be presented, the first thing you would have done is inform CLS staff (as I've repeatedly done) that many of their claims about e-cigs, OTP and flavorings are false and intentionally misleading, and that many of their model policies, ordinances, fact sheets and other lobbying propaganda protects cigarette markets and cigarette companies at the expense of public health.

First of all, the ChangeLabSolutions webpage at http://changelabsolutions.org/content/co-funders says that “Our Funder” is RWJF (which is the largest shareholder of Johnson and Johnson stocks), and the following CLS documents say they were funded by RWFJ
Model Sugar-Sweetened Beverage Tax Legislation | ChangeLab Solutions
Model Ordinance Regulating Sales of SSBs | ChangeLab Solutions
http://changelabsolutions.org/sites/default/files/Fundamentals_Preemption_FS_FINAL_20130911.pdf
http://changelabsolutions.org/sites...on_PublicHealthAdvocacy_FS_FINAL_20130911.pdf
http://changelabsolutions.org/sites/default/files/Negotiating_Preemption_FS_FINAL_20130911.pdf
http://changelabsolutions.org/sites/default/files/SRTS_Fact_Sheet_FINAL_(CLS-20120530)_20100727.pdf

The CSL “model ordinance” for Comprehensive Smokefree Places is a bait and switch document (to lobby for Orwellian e-cig and smokeless tobacco usage bans) that makes false and misleading fear mongering claims about e-cigs and smokeless tobacco products, and urges policy makers to deceitfully redefine smoking as including the use of smokefree vapor products.
Comprehensive Smokefree Places | ChangeLab Solutions

The 60 page CSL Smoke-Free Housing guide appropriately focuses solely on secondhand smoke until page 51 when (in a sample policy letter to residents) it deceptively includes smokefree e-cigs in its recommended smoking ban. That's bait and switch deceit.
http://changelabsolutions.org/sites/default/files/SFMUH_Guidebook_FINAL_20140417.pdf

Virtually every sentence in CSL’s “Smoke and Mirrors” is a false or misleading claim intended to confuse, scare and lobby to ban use of lifesaving smokefree e-cigs
Smoke & Mirrors | ChangeLab Solutions
http://changelabsolutions.org/sites/default/files/VaporFactSheet_FINAL_20140505.pdf

Similarly, there are many false and misleading claims about smokefree e-cigs in CSL’s cigarette protecting “Model Ordinance Regulating Electronic Smoking Devices”
How to Regulate E-Cigarettes and Other Electronic Smoking Devices | ChangeLab Solutions

There are many false and misleading claims about OTP (to deceive readers to believe OTPs are as hazardous as cigarettes) and about flavored OTP (including flavored e-cigs, to deceive readers to believe flavored products are more addictive than other tobacco products) in CSL’s menthol cigarette protecting “Model ordinance restricting sales of flavored tobacco products” at
Restricting Sales of Flavored Tobacco Products | ChangeLab Solutions

CLS's model TRL ordinance also contains false and misleading claims that protects cigarettes and large cigarette retailers at the expense of e-cigs, OTP and small vapor product retailers.
California Tobacco Retailer Licensing | ChangeLab Solutions
http://changelabsolutions.org/sites/default/files/CA.LicensingOrdinance_FINAL_20130724.pdf

Meanwhile, the CLS documents at
http://changelabsolutions.org/sites/default/files/CA.CompSmokefreePlaces-FINAL_20140630.pdf
http://changelabsolutions.org/sites/default/files/CA.LicensingOrdinance_FINAL_20130724.pdf
and many others tout and urge readers to utilize Big Pharma funded ALA’s similar e-cig prohibitionist resources at The Center | Tobacco Policy | American Lung Association | Lung Health

Please note, however, that I've always been willing and quick to correct my inaccurate (or misleading) statements. In sharp contrast, neither you nor the staff of CLS has changed CLS's many false and misleading claims about e-cigs, OTP and flavorings (despite my repeated requests over the years).

Bill Godshall



Sep 22, 2014 05:02:07 PM, ssugarman@law.berkeley.edu wrote:

As I said you are free to criticize the merits of ChangeLab documents. If you think that RWJF is big Phama make that clear. I think that all sorts of folks who work with or receive funds from the foundation think otherwise. This equation will lose you lots of credibility in my view. While many RWJF grantee shave a different view than you about eCigs, others agree with you. As an aside while ChangeLab gets lots of RWJF funding, contrary to what you claim in your update , RWJF is not a funder of the ordinance you complain about.

Steve

Sent from my iPhone

 

[DrMA]

I think Steve needs to hear some more evidence from a few thousand vapers...

Btw, you didn't really expect the Orwellian shadowy cabal to openly admit it is indeed an Orwellian shadowy cabal.

 

[Kent C]

Sep 22, 2014 05:02:07 PM, ssugarman@law.berkeley.edu wrote:

As I said you are free to criticize the merits of ChangeLab documents. If you think that RWJF is big Phama make that clear. I think that all sorts of folks who work with or receive funds from the foundation think otherwise. This equation will lose you lots of credibility in my view. While many RWJF grantee shave a different view than you about eCigs, others agree with you. As an aside while ChangeLab gets lots of RWJF funding, contrary to what you claim in your update , RWJF is not a funder of the ordinance you complain about.

Steve

Sent from my iPhone

1. ChangeLab gets lots of RWJF funding

Grant Archive - Robert Wood Johnson Foundation

2. RWJF is not a funder of the ordinance you complain about - erm.... but

3. ChangeLab Solutions developed this Model Ordinance to help California cities and counties restrict sales of flavored OTPs. (from Bill's link)

4. So Steve, what you're saying is that none of the millions you've received from RWJ Foundation were used and none of the staff who developed the 'Model Ordinance' weren't paid by funds coming from RWJF?

 

[Jman8]

Which is why it's time to get serious and start scaring our opponents.

I think Bill has a found a way to do that.

When opposition says their nonsense, we claim they are funded by Big Pharma courtesy of CLS. I heard one of their Board of Directors confirmed as much.

 

[DC2]

Please note, however, that I've always been willing and quick to correct my inaccurate (or misleading) statements. In sharp contrast, neither you nor the staff of CLS has changed CLS's many false and misleading claims about e-cigs, OTP and flavorings (despite my repeated requests over the years).

That's what they call a good old-fashioned smackdown.

 

[readeuler]

Crazy, scary, stuff!

Since using e-cigarettes and joining ECF, I've become more aware of what's going on, to the point that I do feel like a tin-foil hatter. What a terrible side effect

The "good" news is that this one weird organization has officially convinced me that it's not all in our collective head. Bizarro World indeed.

 

[Nate760]

Since using e-cigarettes and joining ECF, I've become more aware of what's going on, to the point that I do feel like a tin-foil hatter. What a terrible side effect

I feel your pain. The last almost-a-year has turned me into something I detest and swore I'd never be: an [Expletive Redacted] conspiracy theorist.

 

[Kent C]

"Tin foil" and "conspiracy" are just part of the package to deflect attention away from lies, junk science, fear mongering and their tyrannical politics. Wear them proudly.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...61-latest-well-known-nutjob.html#post12841079

 

[Nate760]

"Tin foil" and "conspiracy" are just part of the package to deflect attention away from lies, junk science, fear mongering and their tyrannical politics. Wear them proudly.

I'd rather not, because those labels are typically (and, more often than not, correctly) applied to people whose views are supported solely by the fantasies in their own heads and the contents of a half-dozen or so Youtube videos.

In this instance, I'd submit we have an extremely compelling circumstantial case that a conspiracy is being perpetrated, that numerous parties (both governmental and private) are reaping a direct financial reward from it, and that it's being perpetrated at the expense of human lives by people and organizations that are charged with safeguarding human life.

 

[Kent C]

I'd rather not, because those labels are typically (and, more often than not, correctly) applied to people whose views are supported solely by the fantasies in their own heads and the contents of a half-dozen or so Youtube videos.

In this instance, I'd submit we have an extremely compelling circumstantial case that a conspiracy is being perpetrated, that numerous parties (both governmental and private) are reaping a direct financial reward from it, and that it's being perpetrated at the expense of human lives by people and organizations that are charged with safeguarding human life.

Your choice of course. That won't stop the labeling though

I'm of the "If this be treason, make the most of it." school.

 

[DC2]

I'd rather not, because those labels are typically (and, more often than not, correctly) applied to people whose views are supported solely by the fantasies in their own heads and the contents of a half-dozen or so Youtube videos.

In this instance, I'd submit we have an extremely compelling circumstantial case that a conspiracy is being perpetrated, that numerous parties (both governmental and private) are reaping a direct financial reward from it, and that it's being perpetrated at the expense of human lives by people and organizations that are charged with safeguarding human life.

The thing about all of this is that I've come to realize that this isn't any "conspiracy" so much as it is business as usual.
It's just people, aligning with other people who share their views or have complimentary goals, and using all of their resources to accomplish what they want.

That's kind of how business works.
But it's also kind of how the world works.

I've said it before and I'll say it again...

There are multiple conspiracies taking place in my own home every day.
And I don't even have any children, only a wife and a dog.

And sometimes I think the dog is the mastermind behind it all.

 

[NorthOfAtlanta]

And sometimes I think the dog is the mastermind behind it all.

This is not a conspiracy I can vouch for the fact that our 3 have us well trained.

 

[dragonpuff]

There are multiple conspiracies taking place in my own home every day.
And I don't even have any children, only a wife and a dog.

And sometimes I think the dog is the mastermind behind it all.

My dog often appears to be the mastermind, but... it seems that the cat is the real mastermind in this house

 

[skoony]

Well, I didn't seek out the book; it was there on the "new non-fiction" shelf the last trip to the library, and as an individual who clearly sees the inevitability of revolution, the title grabbed me. Turns out he's not really advocating Minute Men or guillotines, but trying to shine a light on exactly what the problem is; not sure anyone really knows what can be done to fix it -- that might indeed require the proverbial Minute Men and/or guillotines.

Most of my life, I have been very pro-liberal, at least in the social-issue sense, but lately my thinking has been changing a great deal, mostly just from actually looking at the mess we're in and trying to think about what could possibly be done to fix it. One of the factors of the economic disaster in recent memory (so recent, we're still suffering it) was the repeal of laws that restrained the financial sector from the type of speculation that caused it, so "laissez faire" is clearly not workable when you're dealing with bankers and Wall Streeters, they're far too ruthless. But this willy-nilly bailing out of businesses that SHOULD fail due to their own bad decisions is not any kind of reasonable answer. The US gov't has turned into exactly the kind of Big Brother that Orwell wrote so prophetically about, and that is not the America of "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness" we're all taught to revere, and the gov't lately has certainly not been "by the people, for the people, of the people", but more "by the Corporations, for the Corporations, and of the Corporations," but now that apparently ALL our lawmakers have been corrupted by all this corporate money, how do we get rid of that corruption? I just don't see an answer; corrupt lawmakers are not going to pass laws that deprive them of all that payola.

And just so you know that I'm not thrashing all this politics off-topically, this is very much at issue with all this crap we're facing about e-cigarettes -- that payola is why the gov't seems so deadset against them; it's got to be payola that's behind "Changelab" and all that nonsense. How do we get rid of that?

Andria

if you are 20 and not a liberal you have no heart.
if you are 40 and not a conservative you have no brain.
attributed to Winston Churchill.
regards
mike

 

[skoony]

I feel your pain. The last almost-a-year has turned me into something I detest and swore I'd never be: an [Expletive Redacted] conspiracy theorist.

DITTO

regards
mike