Has my PG Gone Bad???

[rachelcoffe]

Hi everyone! OK so I recently bought a bunch of new 510 cartomizers from Jack at Happy Vaper (as well as two of his lovely new hot pink Happy 510 batteries - a manual and an automatic!). I also bought some VG from him for a tiny bit of experimentation (not at all for regular, daily use). Until now I've been vaping with PG only. That is, PG with nicotine + plain PG + flavour. And to be honest...I've been very happy sticking with just PG. Great flavour, great throat hit, and pretty great vapour production too. I knew that VG could provide more vapour...but I basically saw no compelling reason to move beyond PG.

Anyway...as some of you may recall, the plain PG I bought about 50 days ago was a huge 500mL bottle at Shoppers' Drug Mart. I've been keeping it in a cool, dark place (on a low shelf way back in a cupboard far from everything)...pulling it out only when I needed to get a few drops with my trusty syringe, and always being quick to put the cap back on and put it away asap. All my e-juice is DIY, and I pretty much never make a batch that's larger than 2mL. Small batches are good.

But here's my problem, and it only started in the last week. I go to make a batch of all-PG juice (PG with nicotine + plain PG + flavour) like always....and fill the new cartomizer. The primer puff gives great vapour...and ditto if I don't inhale (like if I just fill my mouth with it and release it, though who wants to do that - not me, lol - I want to inhale). But if I inhale...there is zero vapour visible when I exhale. This wasn't happening before!

I thought maybe it was the cartomizers, but it's not. I tried it with several. In every case, it's the same. I even tried filling a cartomizer with nothing but plain PG. Same deal. But - if I use even a tiny bit of VG, vapour visibility returns to my exhales after inhaling. The cartomizers work...it's the plain PG that's (apparently) not working.

The problem is, I don't like VG - at least, not very much. I've tried it, and I know that now. I made several small batches using between 10% to 25% VG in the mix, and flavours like my beloved natural Watermelon - which has consistently tasted delicious in an all-PG juice - suddenly tastes strange & awful, even when there is only a little bit of VG present. I tried it, and I want to go back to my PG. Only problem is, my PG has stopped producing vapour properly!

The only reasonable explanation I can come up with is that somehow, despite my precautions, my plain PG has gone bad or "off" somehow.

Has this ever happened to any of you? Does my problem sound familiar?

If that big bottle has somehow spoiled...then I'll know to just buy a fresh, small bottle of PG from Jack each month. It's just rather disconcerting for this to happen & so suddenly no less - especially since I was kinda proud of my all-PG juices performing so well during my first 6 weeks+ of vaping...seriously, I was getting plenty of vapour. What happened, you stupid bottle?

Thanks in advance for your replies!

 

[Switched]

What is the expiry date on the bottle?

 

[rachelcoffe]

What is the expiry date on the bottle?

April 2011, Switched. It's like 97% full still, too.

 

[youfillintheblank]

possibly could be the flavourings???? maybe? the ph level of the juice has something to do with vapour production, I can't remember if high or low ph makes more vapour. Crack open some new flavourings or try some with no flavouring and see what's what.

 

[rachelcoffe]

possibly could be the flavourings???? maybe? the ph level of the juice has something to do with vapour production, I can't remember if high or low ph makes more vapour. Crack open some new flavourings or try some with no flavouring and see what's what.

Thanks, youfillintheblank...but I did that. I tried with 4 very different flavours, 3 of which were brand-new bottles (and the 4th showed no difference, comparatively). So the flavourings aren't to blame. I also tried just plain PG by itself (no nic or flavour or anything). Same deal. Oh, the PG with nicotine is like 1 week old too, basically brand new, and there's no problem with it. The cartomizers work...the flavours are fine...it's the plain PG that's (apparently) suddenly not working properly like before.

 

[HzG8rGrl]

Maybe shake it up? I have never seen or read this type of problem before.

 

[rachelcoffe]

Maybe shake it up? I have never seen or read this type of problem before.

Thanks HzG8rGrl, but I actually already tried that too. I had a brand-new, empty 30mL squeeze bottle with a drip tip...so I filled that bottle with the plain PG, gave it a good shake (and of course I also stir my juice batches in their little glass bottles before filling my cartomizers)...no dice. It was the same as when I used it directly from the big bottle via the syringe. I tested it a bunch of different ways in a good number of new cartomizers - with flavour, without flavour...with nicotine, without nicotine, etc etc. In each case, the all-PG juice now produces perfectly fine vapour on primer puffs, or if I don't inhale...but if I inhale, there is absolutely no visible vapour in my exhale. I've seen more vapour before just from naturally moist breath, lol.

Of course, a few drops of VG and there's no visibility problem with exhaled vapour after inhaling...except the VG makes the juices taste weird & unpleasant, and definitely reduces throat hit. I just don't understand why my delicious all-PG juices would be perfectly fine for like 6 weeks+ and then overnight change so very drastically. There was no intermediate stage where vapour production was reduced: one minute it's plenty, next it's nothing at all. And since vaping with a cartomizer filled with only plain PG still had the same problem...we can definitively say that there's something wrong with the plain PG. Everything else is in order, it's the plain PG to blame.

I was really hoping someone here would say something like "Ahh, yes - PG is fragile and has a short shelf life. It's gone off, and it's happened to all of us at some point. Get a fresh bottle and it'll work fine like before." ....now I wonder what the hell's happened to my plain PG?

 

[HzG8rGrl]

One thing I learned just recently is that after you inhale if you breathe in through your nose there is considerably less vapor. The longer you hold in the vapor the less comes out. Maybe you have been doing a deeper, longer inhale than normal or you are doing the STEALTH vape by inhaling through your nose after you have inhaled through your mouth? Heck, I don't know.

 

[youfillintheblank]

okay, did you try this with NEW cartomizers or previously used ones? I bought some empty ones a while back and some of them did not make vapour, even with store bought Dekang liquid that worked fine in a regular atomizer...... I rinsed and rinsed and RINSED them in distilled water, let them dry, then they worked fine......do you have any non carto-atomizers to experiment with? I tend to think there is a ph balance problem with your cartomizers, not the liquid (maybe).... rinse out one or two in boiling water, let them dry completely and try again.

p.s. I'm with you on not liking VG, it tastes weird and gives me the poops I think

 

[Switched]

You've got me stumped. I would post the question in the DIY sub.

 

[Can_supplier]

I’d suspect you made a weaker nicotine solution.

The majority of bite, kick, tingle, feel comes from the nicotine. Less feel to it, the deeper you draw because it feels like you are getting less. Deeper the draw, the deeper the inhale and the less vapor that comes out when you exhale.

An example of this was back when I smoked, you might be able to relate to this. I smoked regular strength, but sometimes you would borrow one from a friend and you might get an Ultra Light. I’d draw till my mouth hurt, inhale like it’s my last breath, and hold it till I turned blue, then when I exhaled there was nothing, while my friend would be puffing clouds of the same type.

Take a step back and look at your mix, and how you are vaping it.

Also read the bottle and make sure you have a 99% PG solution. I have seen it sold in lower concentrations.

Hope that helps.

 

[rachelcoffe]

Thanks everyone for your posts. To Can_supplier: I used the exact same recipe that worked perfectly fine before...so it can't be that. For example, my french toast recipe (2mL batch):

26 drops of PG with nicotine (28mg strength)
8 drops of plain PG
6 drops of concentrated flavouring
= 2mL of french toast e-juice (18mg strength)

I'm not drawing harder, or inhaling deeper or longer on my e-cig than before, either. If anything, because of the issue I'm being particularly mindful to draw evenly, consistently...and inhale normally.

The PG is pure too. It says 99.5%. Bear in mind too, it's the exact same PG that was creating clouds of lovely vapour in my exhales only a week ago. My recipes haven't changed from what was working...nor have my methods, nor means. I guess the only thing to do now is vape less frequently at a higher nic strength (maybe with just like 1 or 2 drops max of VG)....and buy a small fresh bottle of plain PG from Jack asap.

My uncertain guess is that repeated exposure to both air & light every time I opened the huge, see-through Shoppers' bottle (it has a wide mouth), coupled with the extreme heat we had in August (before our lovely, much cooler autumn began)...somehow made this PG start to break down in a way that's not noticeable to the naked eye, but is far enough along to be screwing with the vapour production. I've read that air, light & heat are all things to keep your bases away from as much as possible...so that makes sense.

Oh well, it was only 10 bucks. Jack's 30mL bottles of PG are a bargain (not even 3 bucks) & way more than enough for a month, considering I only use it to lower the nicotine level. I think from now on I'll just do that. Use what I need from the 30mL bottle each month, then order a new one & when it arrives, toss the previous one.

Anyway, thanks again everyone for your kind posts & trying to help!

 

[Switched]

Here's a stab. You might be on to something.

PG is a humectant and thus will absorb the humidity in the air, therefore dispensing from the large bottle is not really advisable. Some folks have discussed this in the DIY section wrt liquids in general, where it is preferable to decant 30ml bottles into smaller let say 10ml bottles and keeping their larger bottles cool and dry. (dry being the operative word.

 

[Can_supplier]

The only thing I can think now is that the PG was bad to start with.

The material data sheets say the PG is stable below 40C, light can be a factor, but who is going to store it in the sun, humecatant yes but in a sealed bottle that shouldn't be a factor. All that should cause the PG to break down, but over a long period of time. Case in point, the 30 ml bottle you carry around in your pocket for a few weeks till it runs out. Worst of all the factors but it won't break down overnight. I assume from the description here it was within a few days that the PG worked and didn't.

Now if you bought the PG which was old, and absorbed enough water that its not 99% anymore it all might make sense. Sitting the water separates so that it floats on the PG so you are actually pouring out water. Maybe the way to test this theory would be to give the PG bottle a good shake, paint can style, and see if the vapor improves some.

 

[Switched]

The only thing I can think now is that the PG was bad to start with.

The material data sheets say the PG is stable below 40C, light can be a factor, but who is going to store it in the sun, humecatant yes but in a sealed bottle that shouldn't be a factor. All that should cause the PG to break down, but over a long period of time. Case in point, the 30 ml bottle you carry around in your pocket for a few weeks till it runs out. Worst of all the factors but it won't break down overnight. I assume from the description here it was within a few days that the PG worked and didn't.

Now if you bought the PG which was old, and absorbed enough water that its not 99% anymore it all might make sense. Sitting the water separates so that it floats on the PG so you are actually pouring out water. Maybe the way to test this theory would be to give the PG bottle a good shake, paint can style, and see if the vapor improves some.

No but moist air entering the bottle every time she uses 8 drops just might be.

 

[Can_supplier]

No but moist air entering the bottle every time she uses 8 drops just might be.

Yeah, it would depend on how empty the bottle is also.. More empty = more air. Maybe I am wrong, but I was under the impression from the posts that the PG was good one day, then not the next. If thats true it eliminates opening the bottle to many times, or any time depended factor. The problem must be in the bottle and with the product from the start, I think.

 

[Can_supplier]

Another one... When you mix, do you wash whatever you use to measure/mix with right before? Is it bone dry, not towel dry, but not a drop of mositure dry?