I don't make a spectacle of myself or vaping when out and about...
"Health Officials" bust vendors, promoters at NJ Vape Expo
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I don't make a spectacle of myself or vaping when out and about...
I care about sales side, very much. For me, personally the flavors issue is bigger deal than the vaping in public. So, if you think I'm a little passionate on the indoor vaping front, then multiply that by 10 and you'd realize my passion for the whole aspect of flavors and how that impacts vaping going forward. I guess what I'm saying is there are many issues I feel passionate about, some more than others. An issue such as whether liquid nicotine is a tobacco product is one that I perhaps care least about, but I can very much understand why any vaper would be passionate enough to maintain position (with strong conviction) that it not be considered a tobacco product.
I find all this respectable, even while I think we've explored disagreement. This is not you saying, "no one should really be vaping in public because it is bad, or it really ought to be treated like smoking." If you wouldn't even vape in your own car, that does put us on different sides of the vaping coin for where you feel it is acceptable for you to enjoy it. And you saying "you can't stop anyone, nor intend to" works for me.
Thing here though is that the "public venue" thing is very debatable. To say it willy nilly like it is same type of public venue as other places seems disingenuous, to say the least. Plus the whole membership thing that was intentionally set up makes it unlike a typical public venue. While theoretically a bar could go the similar path to get around the stated law, I find that hard to argue as if they are the same thing, for that bar would surely be visited again, likely by non-vapers, within days, not weeks/months. And yet, if bar had a one night event where everyone that would be inside was signed on as "this is perfectly okay for me to be around," I don't get how any vaper would take issue against this or base it on "the law." IMO, it is that ludicrous of a law that ought to be opposed, for it could very much be used oppressively. And in this case, I would say that is quite clear.
Once again I have to ask, "Who requested that the air handling system be turned down (or off)?"
The promoters, the vendors, the authorities? Judging by the photos, someone wanted that facility filled with vapor in order to create the 'spectacle'. I've designed those types of facilities in the past, and that was not an accident.
I wonder if they've ever had a food or perfume convention there, and how that turned out for the 'innocent bystanders' who had to use the place later.
Overall, it's the work of a dozen monkeys with typewriters, hoping to end up with a Shakespearean play. Everyone involved missed the mark.
The promoters, the vendors, the authorities? Judging by the photos, someone wanted that facility filled with vapor in order to create the 'spectacle'. I've designed those types of facilities in the past, and that was not an accident.
I wonder if they've ever had a food or perfume convention there, and how that turned out for the 'innocent bystanders' who had to use the place later.
Overall, it's the work of a dozen monkeys with typewriters, hoping to end up with a Shakespearean play. Everyone involved missed the mark.
It was on from what I have read. Apparently there were also fog machines running. Lots of fog =fun...
It would be interesting if the board of health had the place condemned until it was sanitized...
Agreed. It could be nauseating. But (and let's be clear) only if it were akin to this sort of event. In reality, I've seen vaping indoors and it has never been even a little bit of an issue, except for when I was in a vape shop. So, while we have designated areas for where things are acceptable, I am of the opinion (perhaps more personal than legal) that it ought to be allowed in a more spread out fashion than localized to area where vaping could rise to level of nauseating. For if you had outdoor location (like patio) crammed with 65 vapers, I could see how that could be plausibly nauseating to non-vapers. And I'm thinking most vapers in this thread, as much as they may be okay with non-vaping indoors in public, would perhaps draw line as to outdoors ("you ain't gonna tell me I can't vape here," type thing).
I do think certain people could be nauseated by a room full of sexual orientation activity occurring if it were say 10 to 1 in people doing it (it being something that is generally okay in public) while very few are not. I think very tolerant people would find no issue with what was occurring and a segment of the population would plausibly get nauseated. I admit it ain't the same as vaping, but do think it is similar, and do think at core of what is really at issue that there would be people who were offended enough to have it not be allowed at all. Ever. If you say, that is their problem. I'd mostly agree. But would say the same by those who are, for whatever reason, offended by people vaping indoors in public.
I very much think it is possible for one or two people to vape in a restaurant and not disturb other patrons, even a little bit. This would depend on a few factors, but I'm really thinking I'm coming from realistic perspective rather than the one where it is automatically blowing into non-vapers faces. IMO, that would be like saying should we allow couples to hold hands in public, while they sit on your lap? No, then no one should ever hold hands in public again.
Because I think (or know) the law to be ludicrous, you can guess how much we disagree on what you are saying here. I think the patrons were well aware of politics involved and while unhappy that they were hassled at an event that possibly could've played out differently, I find it hard to lay blame on organizers with what is known.
Agree with some of what you are saying here, very much. I find the liberal part scary. Just kidding. But I've already spoken to the offense thing and if you as fellow vaper are really on board with idea that it is that offensive to be around, or could be (for others), then we are at odds. My experience of vaping (many times) consistently tells me otherwise. That some people may be silently offended, holding that back, and when arriving home writing angry letters is, IMO, no different than the person bent out of shape that 2 people dared to kiss in front of him and his kids while enjoying a meal. IMO, this is also not different than if the offense was just the mere presence of say a religious minority or racial minority. And to then jump to conclusion that vapor would automatically be nauseating, more often than not, when again my experience says otherwise, is like saying, "should this racial minority be able to sit on my lap while I am enjoying a meal out? No. Then why do we allow them in this place at all?"
I was at ECC 2014 last Year. It looked the Same.
And Many People/Exhibitors were ...... about Too Many Exhibitors using Fog Machines.
I guess it's considered 'ambiance'. Like deafening people at a car show with taped engine sounds. 
Is everything now required to be "extreme"?
Is everything now required to be "extreme"?
I guess it's considered 'ambiance'. Like deafening people at a car show with taped engine sounds.
Is everything now required to be "extreme"?
What I saw at ECC 2015 was what you would Expect if you got the Full Spectrum of e-Cigarette Retailers together in one place.
Most recognized that having Too Many fog machines was a Bad Thing. And were respectful to Other Exhibitors asking that they turn them Off. Or at least, use them at a Minimum.
But there were Some who just said
. This is My Booth. And I can do as a Damn Well feel like.
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True.
With the possible Exception of Employees of the Companies who had a Booth. They had to sit in that Fog All Day. For 3 Days Straight. And Many were not Thrilled About it.
Yeah... Anyone can Quit their Job if they are Told to do Something that they Don't Like.
Yeah... Anyone.
I hate the way these things Run Hot n' Heavy for like 5 Days. And it is the Most Earth Shaking thing to ever come down a NJ Turnpike.
And then it just Evaporates into Nothing. And you Never hear Anything Else About it. Ever.
Last I heard, the Promoters were going to Pay All the Fines and were going to Sue the Living Day Lights out of a Whole Host of People.
So.... Did They?
Yeah, very much like a lot of mainstream news stories.
Someone on some thread said the promoters stopped paying the fines as soon as they started piling up.
This kind of rings true for me Steve, the cloud aspect of vaping has brought much change in the term from the time I began vaping to today. I am and most likely will forever be a wimpy vaper simply because that is all it takes keep me from the nearly four decade habit that I am quite proud to have left behind. A little bit of visible vapor and the hint of nicotine and I am good, not looking for a new sport nor am I a flavor purist in vaping or anything else for that matter... pretty easy to please here I suppose.
The thing is and most folks dont really get this is the fact that what we are really talking about here is air exchanges from one human being to another. The kicker is that this happens any time more than one person is in an enclosed space it is just not noticed without the marker that vaping provides. Honestly there are probably greater concerns about breathing in the invisible exhalations of others for reasons other than vaping viruses being one of them.
In the end though what is being expressed is the right of one individual and how it may impact the rights of the next. In regards to vaping it is "can see the cloud" because as far as we know this is the only distinction from simply breathing so the logical tact would be to just not blow the cloud if you want to vape where others may not want to see it.
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