New Strategy for Smoking Cessation (nic-eating bacterial enzyme)

Status
Not open for further replies.

nicnik

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 20, 2015
2,649
5,220
Illinois, USA
I think that has a lot to do with why e-cigs are so effective for quitting smoking; not only do they supply nicotine, but they cause the same parts of the brain, the "enjoyment" chemicals, to fire, even, apparently, when the other chemicals of cigarette smoke aren't present -- for most people. A few of us need the extra alkaloids, but most seem to do just fine without them.

For me, I think maybe that both the benefit and satisfaction mainly happen immediately with the big breath, throat hit, and visible exhale. I felt no benefit, satisfaction, or craving relief using patches or gum. None. Zero nic vaping doesn't work for me, but might have potential if I were to want to quit nicotine. It would be a challenge without the throat hit, though.

It almost seems like I feel those immediate effects in my brain, possibly via sinuses. It might be because it really relaxes me a lot. It would make sense that it could be felt in the head, similar to how tension and stress can make a head hurt.
 

AndriaD

Reviewer / Blogger
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 24, 2014
21,253
50,807
64
LawrencevilleGA
angryvaper.crypticsites.com
When I had gotten my smoking down to just one a day, that "first" morning smoke, it was mainly that I just couldn't seem to get fully satisfied, with vaping -- I enjoyed it, and it helped, I could delay that "first" smoke for an hour or more.. but at some point early in the day, I'd really feel the need to go out and have that smoke, but no more the rest of the day. I finally solved the problem by learning to inhale the e-cig way instead of the cigarette way, and it does take longer, and requires a more patient style for both the draw and the inhale; once I started paying attention to that... that day, I never did feel the need for that morning smoke. So the nicotine is definitely involved in there somewhere, though nowadays I can't say I pay much attention to the way I vape; maybe I've just internalized/habitualized that slower lingering inhale. The throat hit is a very important part of it for me too, and without it I feel zero satisfaction, I just can't *feel* the vape at all, without a pretty significant TH.

Andria
 

CarolT

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Feb 22, 2011
803
1,439
Madison WI
Relax. Most of those enzymes never get past peoples' stomachs, etc., because they're efficiently dismantled into constituent amino acids and proteins, etc., before they get a chance to do anything. This isn't really new anyway. Reports go back to at least 1961.
methylmyosmine - PubMed - NCBI
However, it occurred to me that perhaps the enzyme could be added to urine samples by smokers/vapers who don't want to be identified as such. Unfortunately, that particular end product (myosmine) isn't normally found in body tissues.
Simultaneous quantification of tobacco alkaloids and major phase I metabolites by LC-MS/MS in human tissue. - PubMed - NCBI
But perhaps if they're doing a quick-and-sloppy assay they wouldn't notice.
 
Last edited:

CarolT

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Feb 22, 2011
803
1,439
Madison WI
Here's something else I found while researching: "Caffeine and nicotine were detected in all samples of chocolate..."
Determination of caffeine, myosmine, and nicotine in chocolate by headspace solid-phase microextraction coupled with gas chromatography-tandem mass... - PubMed - NCBI

And here's one claiming that myosmine was detected in nut and nut products, and that "At pH 2-4myosmine was easily nitrosated and gave rise to two major products, HPB and NNN" - NNN being one of Hecht's favorite bogeymen, which is claimed to be "tobacco specific."
Nitrosation of dietary myosmine as risk factor of human cancer. - PubMed - NCBI

And: "Myosmine has been regarded as a specific tobacco alkaloid until investigations pointed out that nuts and nut products constitute a significant source of myosmine. In the present study it is shown that the occurrence of myosmine is widespread throughout a large number of plant families. Using a method for extraction practicable for all examined foods, quantitative analysis through internal standard addition showed nanograms per gram amounts. Positively tested edibles were staple foods such as maize, rice, wheat flour, millet, potato, and milk and also cocoa, popcorn, tomato, carrot, pineapple, kiwi, and apples. No myosmine was detectable in other vegetables and fruits such as lettuce, spinach, cucumber, onion, banana, tangerines, and grapes. Myosmine is easily nitrosated giving rise to a DNA adduct identical to the esophageal tobacco carcinogen [sic] N-nitrosonornicotine. Therefore, the role of dietary myosminein esophageal adenocarcinoma should be further investigated."
New sources of dietary myosmine uptake from cereals, fruits, vegetables, and milk. - PubMed - NCBI
The reason I said [sic] is because just the IARC, but not the NTP, considers the "tobacco-specific nitrosamines" to be human carcinogens - and it was Hecht himself who was the instigator (as well as the most prolific investigator) of that claim.
 
Last edited:

nicnik

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 20, 2015
2,649
5,220
Illinois, USA
My body has nicotine receptors for a reason. :D
That made me want to find out why we have nicotine receptors.

THE BRAIN FROM TOP TO BOTTOM
It has now been established that all substances that trigger dependencies in human beings increase the release of a neuromediator, dopamine, in a specific area of the brain:
But not all drugs increase dopamine levels in the brain in the same way.

Some substances imitate natural neuromediators and take their place on their receptors. Morphine, for example, binds to the receptors for endorphin (a natural "morphine" produced by the brain), while nicotine binds to the receptors for acetylcholine.

Other substances increase the secretion of natural neuromediators. ......., for example, mainly increases the amount of dopamine in the synapses, while ecstasy mainly increases the amount of serotonin.

Still other substances block a natural neuromediator. Alcohol, for example, blocks the NMDA receptors.
Nicotine imitates the action of a natural neurotransmitter called acetylcholine and binds to a particular type of acetylcholine receptor, known as the nicotinic receptor.

Whether it is acetylcholine or nicotine that binds to this receptor, it responds in the same way: it changes its conformation, which causes its associated ion channel to open for a few milliseconds. This channel then allows sodium ions to enter the neuron, depolarizing the membrane and exciting the cell. Then the channel closes again, and the nicotinic receptor becomes temporarily unresponsive to any neurotransmitters. It is this state of desensitization that is artificially prolonged by continual exposure to nicotine.

So I guess the receptors are there for acetycholine, and nicotine evolved to bind to them, if the following info at yahoo answers is correct (warning - the answerers appear to have good information, but bad manners. The asker used profanity in response).

why do we have nicotine receptors in the first place? | Yahoo Answers
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Woofer

CarolT

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Feb 22, 2011
803
1,439
Madison WI
That made me want to find out why we have nicotine receptors.

THE BRAIN FROM TOP TO BOTTOM

So I guess the receptors are there for acetycholine, and nicotine evolved to bind to them, if the following info at yahoo answers is correct (warning - the answerers appear to have good information, but bad manners. The asker used profanity in response).

why do we have nicotine receptors in the first place? | Yahoo Answers
This is complete BS about nicotine 'evolving' to bind acetylcholine receptors. Tobacco plants evolved in the Pleistocene Era 2.5 million years ago. That's before 'Anatomically Modern Humans' existed. Also, this was in South America after the continents separated, so they didn't get to the Old World until humans took them there.
Peruvian diggers find 2.5 million-year-old tobacco
 
  • Like
Reactions: Woofer

CarolT

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Feb 22, 2011
803
1,439
Madison WI
That made me want to find out why we have nicotine receptors.

THE BRAIN FROM TOP TO BOTTOM

So I guess the receptors are there for acetycholine, and nicotine evolved to bind to them, if the following info at yahoo answers is correct (warning - the answerers appear to have good information, but bad manners. The asker used profanity in response).

why do we have nicotine receptors in the first place? | Yahoo Answers

It's also BS that "It has now been established that all substances that trigger dependencies in human beings increase the release of a neuromediator, dopamine, in a specific area of the brain: the nucleus accumbens. Here's why:

In the early 1980’s, explains Salamone, the National Institute on Drug Abuse put out a call for research on the neurological basis for drug abuse and addiction.

The research that ensued built support for the idea that when the brain produced elevated amounts of dopamine, it was accompanied by perceptions of pleasure. The chemical quickly became known for this relationship, which was thought to be important for responding to drugs and other motivational substances, such as food.

The chemical, which was formerly only thought to play a small role in movement, became over the subsequent decades among the most well-known and important in the brain. It turned out to be so important that it found its way into popular culture, with dozens of self-help books and websites explaining its relationship to feelings of happiness and reward.

But over time, Salamone’s studies and those of others started revealing problems. In animals, dopamine levels can spike after stress, such as losing a fight with another animal. Soldiers dealing with post-traumatic stress disorder also show activity in dopamine-rich parts of the brain when hearing recorded gunshots and other combat sounds.

... As Salamone’s studies have showed, animals with lowered levels of dopamine almost always choose the easy, low-value reward, while animals with normal levels don’t mind exerting the effort to jump the fence for the high-value reward.​

UConn Researcher: Dopamine Not About Pleasure (Anymore) | UConn Today
 
Last edited:

DC2

Tootie Puffer
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 21, 2009
24,161
40,974
San Diego
The throat hit is a very important part of it for me too, and without it I feel zero satisfaction, I just can't *feel* the vape at all, without a pretty significant TH.
I get no satisfaction if I can't feel it.
And I get no satisfaction if I can't see the vapor.

It doesn't have to be a lot of vapor though.
Just as much as a cigarette.

Thankfully, it's more.
:)
 
  • Like
Reactions: nicnik

DC2

Tootie Puffer
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 21, 2009
24,161
40,974
San Diego
I don't know how many times I've posted this in this thread or on this forum, but I'll post it again...
Nicotine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
MAO enzymes break down monoaminergic neurotransmitters such as dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. It is thought that a powerful interaction between the MAOIs and nicotine is responsible for most of the addictive properties of tobacco smoking.[59] The addition of five minor tobacco alkaloids increases nicotine-induced hyperactivity, sensitization and intravenous self-administration in rats.[60]

The MAOIs naturally found in tobacco (and WTA) go around cleaning up dopamine.
So the nicotine gives you dopamine (and serotonin) and the MAOIs go around getting rid of it.

Thus the synergistic action of nicotine with the MAOIs leading to an "addictive" reaction in many people.
 

nicnik

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 20, 2015
2,649
5,220
Illinois, USA
This is complete BS about nicotine 'evolving' to bind acetylcholine receptors. Tobacco plants evolved in the Pleistocene Era 2.5 million years ago. That's before 'Anatomically Modern Humans' existed. Also, this was in South America after the continents separated, so they didn't get to the Old World until humans took them there.
Peruvian diggers find 2.5 million-year-old tobacco
It makes sense to me that plants would evolve to produce nicotine for binding to the receptors in insects, and that we have some similar receptors. That's how I understand it.
 

nicnik

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Apr 20, 2015
2,649
5,220
Illinois, USA
It's also BS that "It has now been established that all substances that trigger dependencies in human beings increase the release of a neuromediator, dopamine, in a specific area of the brain: the nucleus accumbens. Here's why:

In the early 1980’s, explains Salamone, the National Institute on Drug Abuse put out a call for research on the neurological basis for drug abuse and addiction.

The research that ensued built support for the idea that when the brain produced elevated amounts of dopamine, it was accompanied by perceptions of pleasure. The chemical quickly became known for this relationship, which was thought to be important for responding to drugs and other motivational substances, such as food.

The chemical, which was formerly only thought to play a small role in movement, became over the subsequent decades among the most well-known and important in the brain. It turned out to be so important that it found its way into popular culture, with dozens of self-help books and websites explaining its relationship to feelings of happiness and reward.

But over time, Salamone’s studies and those of others started revealing problems. In animals, dopamine levels can spike after stress, such as losing a fight with another animal. Soldiers dealing with post-traumatic stress disorder also show activity in dopamine-rich parts of the brain when hearing recorded gunshots and other combat sounds.

... As Salamone’s studies have showed, animals with lowered levels of dopamine almost always choose the easy, low-value reward, while animals with normal levels don’t mind exerting the effort to jump the fence for the high-value reward.​

UConn Researcher: Dopamine Not About Pleasure (Anymore) | UConn Today

I think I'm gonna enjoy reading this stuff tonight. Nothing like a thorough debunking for disappointing info.
 

AndriaD

Reviewer / Blogger
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 24, 2014
21,253
50,807
64
LawrencevilleGA
angryvaper.crypticsites.com
I get no satisfaction if I can't feel it.
And I get no satisfaction if I can't see the vapor.

It doesn't have to be a lot of vapor though.
Just as much as a cigarette.

Thankfully, it's more.
:)

Ditto for me; when I tried 90% PG, it helped my lungs, but irritated my throat and sinuses, and I thought the vapor was a bit too thin; trying out 86/14 now, and it seems workable. I think it's probably a bit less vapor than the smoke I produced from a cigarette, but I actually like that, it dissipates in seconds.

Andria
 

CarolT

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Feb 22, 2011
803
1,439
Madison WI
I don't know how many times I've posted this in this thread or on this forum, but I'll post it again...
Nicotine - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The MAOIs naturally found in tobacco (and WTA) go around cleaning up dopamine.
So the nicotine gives you dopamine (and serotonin) and the MAOIs go around getting rid of it.

Thus the synergistic action of nicotine with the MAOIs leading to an "addictive" reaction in many people.
No, the Wiki article says that tobacco contains harman and norharman, and that those compounds inhibit monoamine oxidase (MAO). The MAO enzymes are what break down dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. Which you already have naturally.
 

AndriaD

Reviewer / Blogger
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 24, 2014
21,253
50,807
64
LawrencevilleGA
angryvaper.crypticsites.com
No, the Wiki article says that tobacco contains harman and norharman, and that those compounds inhibit monoamine oxidase (MAO). The MAO enzymes are what break down dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. Which you already have naturally.

This exactly -- MAOIs *inhibit* the monoamine oxidase, which is what destroys the neurotransmitters. Some people apparently have too much MAO, and thus benefit from MAOIs.

Andria
 
  • Like
Reactions: CarolT

DC2

Tootie Puffer
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 21, 2009
24,161
40,974
San Diego
No, the Wiki article says that tobacco contains harman and norharman, and that those compounds inhibit monoamine oxidase (MAO). The MAO enzymes are what break down dopamine, norepinephrine, and serotonin. Which you already have naturally.
Thanks for the correction!

Nobody ever talks about this, so I'm glad to have it cleared up.
I keep posting it but never tried to explain it until now.

So the MAO enzymes you already have naturally break down the dopamine and serotonin?
And the MAOIs in tobacco help to inhibit that breakdown?

So your body cleans up the dopamine and serotonin that nicotine helps increase.
And the other tobacco alkaloids inhibit that clean-up process?

I want to make sure I have it right if I ever try to talk about it again.
:laugh:
 

AndriaD

Reviewer / Blogger
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jan 24, 2014
21,253
50,807
64
LawrencevilleGA
angryvaper.crypticsites.com
Thanks for the correction!

Nobody ever talks about this, so I'm glad to have it cleared up.
I keep posting it but never tried to explain it until now.

So the MAO enzymes you already have naturally break down the dopamine and serotonin?
And the MAOIs in tobacco help to inhibit that breakdown?

So your body cleans up the dopamine and serotonin that nicotine helps increase.
And the other tobacco alkaloids inhibit that clean-up process?

I want to make sure I have it right if I ever try to talk about it again.
:laugh:

just the MAOIs -- harman and norharman. The other tobacco alkaloids have other functions; a big one is an anti-inflammatory, anabatine. I think that's probably the one that my body most needed, after the appendectomy.

Andria
 

DC2

Tootie Puffer
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jun 21, 2009
24,161
40,974
San Diego
All those times I read "MAO enzymes" I thought they WERE the MAOIs.
Which resulted in getting the whole thing completely backwards.

I guess anyone can be an idiot.
:(

So again, thank you very much for the corrections.
It's like walking around with toilet paper stuck to your shoe and nobody says anything.
:laugh:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread