Okay, I'm Really Digging the Calipitter Chow...but

[all_in_ashes]

So, I let it steep and wow this immediately shot to the top of my vape list and I demolished most of my 15ml bottle, but it seems to really burn through the cartomizers in my tank. I used two cartos for ~13ml of the Chow, and they go from delish to burned tasting really quickly after ~5mls. I tried it with my Boge XLs which are my usual go-to carto, but also in a Ikenvape 510XL and neither lasted long. Has anyone experienced the Chow being rough on cartos; I really wanna order a 60ml of the Chow, but I'm hesitant because I don't know how I would use it.

Now, my other favorite flavor from M&P is Root Beer Float and I've pushed 30ml through my current tank and the carto is still going strong. I get similar long carto use with Grasshopper, Grape Ape, Blue Ridge Mist etc. Cheers!

 

[pwyll]

Hmmm.

I can't speak to this because I'm almost exclusively on genesis-style rebuildables, but so far I've found the Calipitter Chow seems to gunk up the coil less than other flavours. I'll pop a carto on something and give it a couple of go-throughs to see what I see. Also, a friend of mine who's just started vaping (thanks to M&P's flavours and customer service) has gotten hooked on the CE3 bottom coils. I'll get him to put some Calipitter Chow through one to see if it behaves differently in those as well...

 

[all_in_ashes]

Thanks, pwyll, I've been eyeing some rba setups. Maybe this is the excuse for me to take the plunge

 

[pwyll]

If you enjoy tinkering, I'd say "go for it." If you're looking for something to set and forget, rebuildables aren't the answer. If you've got the right mind-set for it, though, nothing can beat them. On the other hand, some things just don't seem to work with them--or at least not with gennies. I can't get Blue Ridge Mist to not taste burnt in one, no matter how high a resistance I build and/or how low I go with voltage, so I've got a carto tank of that sitting on the table.

But honestly, cartos are going to be the bulk of vaping for a long time, so it would be good to find out if there is some issue with the CC and cartos (and how to avoid/work around it if so).

 

[pwyll]

So, I let it steep and wow this immediately shot to the top of my vape list and I demolished most of my 15ml bottle, but it seems to really burn through the cartomizers in my tank. I used two cartos for ~13ml of the Chow, and they go from delish to burned tasting really quickly after ~5mls. I tried it with my Boge XLs which are my usual go-to carto, but also in a Ikenvape 510XL and neither lasted long. Has anyone experienced the Chow being rough on cartos; I really wanna order a 60ml of the Chow, but I'm hesitant because I don't know how I would use it.

Now, my other favorite flavor from M&P is Root Beer Float and I've pushed 30ml through my current tank and the carto is still going strong. I get similar long carto use with Grasshopper, Grape Ape, Blue Ridge Mist etc. Cheers!

If you don't mind, what is the resistance of the cartos you used, and what was the voltage you were running? As I was getting a carto ready tonight to start testing this out, I realized I also have a tendency to coil at fairly low ohms (most seem to end up somewhere between .8 and 1.1) and the relatively hotter burn might make a difference as far as gunking things up or not

What I'm planning to do right now is run 5ml through a carto and then run a 5ml tank--that way I can see if there is more of a tendency to gunk up in a carto and have an idea if the tank is somehow affecting the equation. I'll probably run an LR and a dual-coil through the paces to see what happens as well...


Edit: I mean I'll probably run a 1.5 to 1.7 carto--I keep forgetting that most people class 2.1 ohms as "low res."

 

[pwyll]

I've got about 2ml through the carto so far. Really good reminder of exactly why I switched to tanks for so long before I hit the gennies and why I keep to the gennies so much now.

I keep reminding myself, "This is for SCIENCE!"

 

[all_in_ashes]

I used a standard res Boge carto rated at 3 ohms, although I think it read at 2.8 on my Zmax. The IKV was a Mega Platinum Std rated at 2.5. I ran both in the tank at 5.2-5.4 volts.

I have to say thanks a ton pwyll. I expected a little advice, but you're going above and beyond to help me out. I did go ahead and order a Drunker RBA as well; I've read it's an easy one for beginners. I must have my Chow!

 

[pwyll]

I used a standard res Boge carto rated at 3 ohms, although I think it read at 2.8 on my Zmax. The IKV was a Mega Platinum Std rated at 2.5. I ran both in the tank at 5.2-5.4 volts.

Okay. According to "the chart" that puts your wattage between approximately 9.5 and 11.5 watts. I don't have any cartos at that high a resistance and I didn't know if you were running a mechanical, regulated or variable mod, so to replicate an average mechanical I've been running this 2.1 carto at 7 watts (about 3.8 volts). My idea was that it would give a decent representation of the average of a mechanical mod throughout the battery's vaping cycle. I've got about 3.5 ml through it so far and I'm getting used to it (the lower wattage) but I'm not sure how relevant it'll end up being to your situation. It should give a decent general answer to "does CC gunk up coils?" though, so I'll at least finish out this round here.

At least I know I can go up a bit when it comes to the tank round, though

I have to say thanks a ton pwyll. I expected a little advice, but you're going above and beyond to help me out. I did go ahead and order a Drunker RBA as well; I've read it's an easy one for beginners. I must have my Chow!

It's hard to give advice in good faith if you don't know anything about the situation. Calipitter Chow is brand new so there's not a lot of experience from other people on which to draw. If it is harder on cartos than other flavours, though, it would be good to know that and to know what can be done about it for anyone else that asks

I do seem to be having to top of this carto a lot, though, and that's only at 7 watts. I wonder if perhaps it actually vaporizes more quickly than other flavours and you simply need to let it wick more. I haven't noticed it going through my gennies faster than Butterfly Bait, Go Nutz! or GVC, but I've generally got three or four mods going at a time with different flavours so it may well be that it's "used up" quicker and I just haven't noticed it...

 

[pwyll]

Okay. I got 6ml through it by early afternoon yesterday, but we had a Derby Party to go to and then I finally passed out as soon as we got home and I got the girls to bed, so I didn't have a chance to punch and tank the carto until about 5:30 this morning. I topped off the carto, punched it, and have it swimming in about 3.5 ml. Since I am vaping this carto/tank exclusively for this experiment, I should have the second 6ml through the carto by late this evening or sometime tomorrow morning. I decided to continue on at the 7 watt power level since it will provide a continuous baseline and is a decent "average" of most carto users. I will up the power to 10 or 11 watts once this carto dies--unless I get 15 or 20 ml through it before then, in which case I may just up the voltage to see what happens. While I know the "5ml" number you gave was an approximation based on a best guess, I feel that I've reached a point where observations have become relevant, so...

Equipment:

• Joyetech eVic--to facilitate relatively precise measurements and control of electrical parameters throughout the experiment
• Boge 2.0 ohm regular (35mm) carto--metered at 2.1 out of the wrapper
• Phiniac tank--coloured pyrex in cobalt, with a custom-etched Firefly design, if that makes a difference to anyone

Observations:

1. At this point (approximately 6.5 to 7ml) the cartomizer has actually dropped in resistance from 2.1 ohms to 2.0. This is in direct contradiction to the normal observation of slowly increasing resistance over the useful life of a carto. I noticed it immediately after tanking it, and did not think to check the resistance before punching it, so I do not know if this is an effect of the Calipitter Chow or if it is an artifact of the punching process.
2. I have noticed no change in the quality or flavour of the vape (other than the obvious improvement of continuous wicking from being tanked).
3. I really love the eVic (though this is obviously unrelated to the experiment at hand).

Hypotheses:
It is obviously to early too draw any conclusions since there are no results at this point, but I have formed a tentative hypothesis based on the assumptions that your experience is repeatable (rather than a bizarre series of coincidences, which is also possible) and that the "common knowledge" of the life-cycle of a cartomizer* is accurate. The net effect so far is that the eVic has dropped the voltage from 3.82 to 3.74 to maintain 7 watts, so it seems to me that if the falling resistance of the coil is an effect of the Calipitter Chow, continued use at the same "level" would result in a burned carto sooner than expected--and that this effect would be heightened at higher voltages.

Notes:
I have put another milliliter though the carto while composing this post and neither the resistance of the coil nor the perceived flavour of the vapour has changed.


* The accepted life-cycle of a cartomizer as I understand it is that the build-up of "carbonized" material on the coil slowly increases the resistance of the wire and the build-up of thickened juice in the wick and surrounding fluff slowly decreases their wicking efficiency. The result is that over the life of the cartomizer, either the voltage and/or firing time have to be increased in order to maintain proper functioning. The death of a cartomizer occurs when one or more of the following happen:

1. Too much voltage is pushed through the coil, resulting in mechanical failure (the coil pops)
2. The coils vapourizes the juice too quickly for the wicking to keep up, resulting in burning the juice
3. The power through the coil is too high for optimum performance but not high enough for thermal stress to pop the coil, resulting in burning of the surrounding fluff
4. Build-up on the coil and in the wick and surrounding fluff increases the thermal mass leading to the eventual "re-vapourization" of the gunk, resulting in a (relatively) slowly increasing burned taste

When (1) or (3) happens it is an acute, catastrophic failure of the "Ack! Bad carto!" type while (2) and (4) are more of the "Plbplbplb.... I think it's time to change the carto" thing.

 

[pwyll]

Quick follow-up:

Shortly after posting I changed batteries in the eVic. Upon turning it back on the cartomizer read 2.1 ohms again. I do not know if this is an actual fluctuation in the cartomizer (which is not unknown) or an issue with the eVic, but it is relevant since it probably eliminates the idea that Calipitter Chow somehow lowers the resistance of the cartomizer

 

[all_in_ashes]

[*]Build-up on the coil and in the wick and surrounding fluff increases the thermal mass leading to the eventual "re-vapourization" of the gunk, resulting in a (relatively) slowly increasing burned taste
[/LIST]When (1) or (3) happens it is an acute, catastrophic failure of the "Ack! Bad carto!" type while (2) and (4) are more of the "Plbplbplb.... I think it's time to change the carto" thing.

My situation was definitely closer to #4 in that the burned taste seemed to start slow and then increase. Maybe it was just a couple of bum cartos. I will definitely be ordering more Chow, and I'm primarily into tanks, so I'll give it a run through another tank. I'll likely give the Drunker a try as well with my remaining little bit of chow

 

[pwyll]

That was pretty much the operating premise based on your description of the circumstances. At this point I've put about 10ml through it and am not noticing any burned taste, nor any decrease in vapour or flavour. That gives us a base-line that there doesn't seem to be any "extra" gunking at the power level I've been running.

Seven watts is much different than 11 watts, though. The possibilities at this point seem to me to be:

1. Calipitter Chow gunks up cartos more than some other flavours but lower/average power levels are not hot enough to make it noticeable.
2. Calipitter Chow gunks up quicker at higher watts than it does at lower settings.
3. Calipitter Chow behaves differently in XL cartos than it does in "regular" cartos.
4. You had the misfortune to get a couple of bad cartos in a row despite them being different brands from different vendors.

Personally I can see justification for any/all of them, so I will not speak to any of them yet. I have just turned it up to 11 watts (4.8 volts @ 2.1 ohms). There is no immediate change (other than the warmer vape and increase in flavour), so we will see where it goes from here

Ahhh...much closer to what I am used to

 

[pwyll]

One interesting development on the higher setting: I'm having to give it a primer puff every now and then to keep the wicking up to par, which I never had to do at 7 watts. Insufficient wicking would definitely lead to premature carto burn.

You may want to widen your holes, or punch an extra one, for the Calipitter Chow.

 

[pwyll]

K.

About a mil and a half into the 11 watt vaping and I'm starting to get the hint of a burnt taste, even with the primer puffs. This is what I was expecting considering your description of what happened to you and the fact that I put 10 ml through with no hint of burning at 7 watts. It's just a hint of the beginning of burning and I doubt I would have noticed it so quickly if I wasn't looking for it, so I dialed it back down to 7 watts and, as I suspected, the burnt taste has disappeared. So...

• You experience premature carto death due to a burnt taste developing after approximately 5ml @ approximately 10 to 11 watts.
• I have no problem running the same genesis wick for two or three weeks (30 to 60 ml) at slightly higher watts (and even then it's usually the coil I replace).
• When using a carto I run approximately 10ml through with absolutely no degradation of performance of any kind.
• Running that same carto at 11 watts takes less than 2ml for a burned taste to begin to develop.
• Dialing that same carto back down to 7 watts eliminates the burned taste (most likely because it was just getting started).

This suggests to me that the coil is not involved in the equation much, if at all--that what is happening is that the build-up in the filler is being burned at the higher settings. It seems to me, at this point, that your choices are:

1. Vape Calipitter Chow at lower wattages (either use a higher resistance carto or a lower voltage on your PV), or
2. Accept that you will have to sacrifice carto life for it, or
3. Try a fillerless carto (either the bottom-coil clearos or perhaps the new Ravens in a tank), or
4. Try it in a genesis-style tank, or
5. Any combination of the above.

If you want to try gennies, I would suggest the AGA-T2 to cut your teeth on--it's the cheapest option I've seen that's still of good enough design and quality to truly represent genesis tank atomizers. I've heard the RSST is a little better, but it's also nearly twice the price. The high-end gennies do offer value for the increased cost (often, but not always, better design and definitely better materials/longer life) but the AGA series is good enough that you may never want to "graduate." I've got a G-Bell, Combo Hybrid, Silver Dog and two Orions, and I still use the AGA-T2 regularly.

Also, this chart I've run across suggests that it's not a new problem in that they list any setting above 8.5 watts as "Too warm, some juices may fry"--so it looks like Calipitter Chow falls into a group of "sensitive juices."

Hope this helps

 

[all_in_ashes]

That helps a ton pwyll. Nice to know what the issue is for certain so I can avoid it in the future. I'll stay away from the cartos and see if the Drunker RBA gives decent flavor. I will also give the AGA-T2 a look as well, I'm just leery of needing to season mesh. Just find it intimidating for some reason Thanks again! Cheers!

 

[pwyll]

Personally, I've never noticed a "need to season" the mesh--in my experience it tastes cleaner than cartos off the bat, and with some juices the flavour seems to get a tad "richer" after a tank or two. I thought that perhaps there was something "wrong" with me, or something "special" about my wicks--but it seems to me that the people who talk so much about the need to season wicks are mostly vaping tobacco flavours or the very dark juices (like Boba's Bounty). This may be a fallacious observation on my part, but I don't do tobacco and I don't find "seasoning" a wick to make a tremendous difference in flavour.

I have refilled the tank and raised the wattage up to 7.5 and after another mil and a half or so have not noticed a burnt taste. I am dialing up to 8 watts now (about 4.2 volts as the cartomizer resistance has finally gone up to 2.2), so we'll see what happens. Good luck with the Drunker--personally I've never had any luck with the top-coil wick-fed *omizers as I find they do not wick fast enough, but plenty of people swear by them