So, what happened was.........

Discussion in 'Health, Safety and Vaping' started by bmwjen, Sep 1, 2011.

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  1. bmwjen

    bmwjen Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I start my story like this, because soooooo many times in the ER, i've either got the gun shot victim, or stabbing victim laying on a stretcher, & their story ALWAYS starts out with "So, what happened was...", or "Well, there was these 2 dudes..." and, YES, gun shot/stab wound victims can sometimes talk, it just depends on where they are shot/stabbed. lol

    Here I am, finally writing my story nearly two months after it happened. I told people that I would write it, just didn't think it would take so long. To date, i've only been completely honest with two other ECF members. During my situation, it was just too much to explain my situation to all of my friends here.

    "So, what happened was............." I was happily vaping along. I've tried hundreds of flavors of juice from close to fifty vendors, i've got all the latest PVs in my stash, not to mention a husband that mods, so i'm pretty happy with my vaping situation. Then a friend introduces me to one of the best juices ever (Alien Visions Sweet Tart)........this stuff was so good, I immediately ordered a 50ml bottle & a 50ml bottle of Hype at the same time, because I heard that "if you like sweet tart, you will love hype" No kidding right!!! Hype quickly became my number one favorite juice. I'd vape it day & night at 24mg in one of my many Reo Minis. Summer started off good! I could finally save some money & stop buying from every single vendor to find a decent juice.

    One night, I couldn't fall asleep. I had to be at work that next morning. It didn't matter that I followed all of my nightly bedtime rituals, I still couldn't fall asleep. So, i'd vape & continue to worry about the fact that I couldn't fall asleep. Then my heart started pounding. It wasn't just a rapid/fast heart beat. It was more like the type of heart beat that pounds out of your chest. Well, I tried a valsalva maneuver, no luck. I tried keeping calm, no luck. I put ice into a huge bowl and threw my face in it. Yes, the heart pounding stopped. However you cannot imagine the feeling I felt while the heart pounding was going on, & there I was trying to SAVE MYSELF, FROM MYSELF. By this time it was 4am. I'm still awake & suppose to be up & getting ready for work in an hour. I'm still not falling asleep. 5am rolls around, i'm still awake, didn't get any sleep, so I called off work. Yes, folks, I called off work. I was honest, I told them that I didn't get any sleep the night before. I still didn't fall asleep. That next night I still didn't fall asleep. I didn't need to call off work, because I wasn't working that next day. However, I am now on 2 days without sleep, an experience with my heart pounding out of my chest, & a day of lost work.

    After the 2nd night without any sleep, I remember I had some 0 nic doublers from Tasty Vapor that I quickly mixed into 6mg juice to vape. Alien Visions had closed down..........(yeah just what I needed after this whole episode)..........I was going to order some 0mg juice to use with my 24mg juice to cut the nicotine content.

    In the meantime I traded a bunch of my vape things for ANY low mg juice with friends on ECF. Soon Alien Visions opened back up. Ben was even willing to meet me to hook me up with the 0mg juice to cut my 24mg stuff. By this time I had vape mail with 6mg juice from all of my friends on ECF.

    I don't know if 24mg juice all day/every day had anything to do with my situation. However I did go straight from vaping 24mg to 6mg without a hitch. I just knew that I could never have that experience ever again. When I smoked, I smoked either marlboro menthol lights, or camel menthol lights (whichever was least expensive)............so I probably shouldn't have started off with 24mg vaping anyway. I can remember thinking that people were crazy for vaping low mg juice, because "it all costs the same, why not just buy the higher nic content stuff?" Something caught up with me. It was either 24mg all day/every day..........or age, or something....... I just know that the feeling was NOT good while it was happening, & I never wanted it to happen again.

    In the end, i'm still not sure if this is what they call nicotine overdose........ or exactly what it was. I just know it wasn't good. I don't know if I can even attribute it to vaping, but it was the ONLY thing I had changed about my lifestyle.

    So, this is my story, & this is what happened just a few months ago. Thank you to my ECF friends for standing by me through this ordeal. Thanks also to Alien Visions, a company that was willing to go out of their way to help me get my 0mg juice to cut my 24mg stuff.

    (I know this was poorly written. It's a first person point of view. It's difficult to type out what exactly was happening during that exact time, but if you've been there, i'm sure you know what I was talking about)
     
  2. Ever1ast

    Ever1ast Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Scary stuff Jen! Sucks that you had to go through it in the first place, but it sounds like you recognized the cause and got a handle on it. I hope the drop down to 6mg keeps you from having to deal with that again.
    I went through something similar when I discovered a new favorite juice a while back. Liked it so much, I was vaping it like it was going out of style; that is till I got sick as a dog. Everything I order now is 12mg, and I have a few 6mg juices for in the evening before bed.

    Thanks for sharing your "So, what happened was....."; I think I should've named mine "Too much of a good thing" lol. Glad to hear you're doing better now :thumb:
     
  3. bmwjen

    bmwjen Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    so yeah, it's sorta like cheesecake.............there can be too much of a good thing.
     
  4. BardicDruid

    BardicDruid Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I barley made it to two months on 24mg when I dropped to 18mg, then at a year vaping I dropped to 12mg and have been there the last year. So with my two years are at hand so I'm thinking of dropping to 6mg, take it one step at a time and don't rush and you'll get there without any problems. But always keep some of the potent stuff handy for stressful situations that arise.
     
  5. bmwjen

    bmwjen Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I don't know............
    I had felt fine up until 2 days ago.........I laid down to sleep & again felt the palpations & didn't fall asleep until 4am. I had to wake up at 5-5:30am for work. Definitely not good!

    I'm 35, smoked for 20 years. I have no medical problems besides some arthritis in my hips that it attributed to congenital hip dysplasia. I work out regularly (yoga, zumba instructor).

    I have went from my normal 90VG HYPE to vaping quite a bit of 50/50 TV POB............So, the PG in my vape liquid has increased. I'm wondering if that is the problem.......

    I'm so scared I almost decided to quit yesterday........but then I bought a glv super mini instead. I guess that means i'm still vaping.
     
  6. SammySweetheart

    SammySweetheart Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    I hope you are ok! Thats a scary thing. Happened to me as well. I dropped my nic level from 18 to 6 and all was well. Took a cpl weeks of stressing out before I felt normal again.
     
  7. rolygate

    rolygate Forum Manager Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I think we will see more people with a story like this. It may be diagnosed as atrial fibrillation, in some cases, and may be linked to excess nicotine intake. Some - but certainly not all - individuals may be susceptible to this effect. There is a lot of literature on it, so it is by no means new or surprising. It has been linked with excessive NRT use especially when combined with smoking. Because of this I think it would be a very good idea to take note of this issue when combining Snus and e-cigarettes, certainly in the long term.

    It may be a good idea for people to make a conscious effort to reduce their nicotine strength gradually, if at all possible. Perhaps there could be a plan made to reduce it every two months to the next level down. I don't think 12 mg / 1.2% is going to be of any consequence for most - but 36mg and even 24mg might cause an issue for some, when used excessively over the long term.

    The contributory factors appear to be: the person is not young, has used fairly large amounts of nicotine for some months, and when an e-cigarette is involved, they are using high-strength liquid. From reports received, for susceptible people it may not be necessary to consume more than 3ml per day.

    Please note that this a well-reported issue with nicotine intake that is excessive for that particular person, and can probably be resolved by reducing the nicotine intake. Apparently, atrial fibrillation is rarely fatal or even serious, but if unresolved it can lead to more serious cardiac complications that in some cases may be fatal.

    Basically, you just can't keep taking in unlimited amounts of pleasurable substances; nicotine, alcohol, chocolate ice cream or anything else, perhaps. Sooner or later you might find you have to cut down in a hurry, so perhaps it would be easier to avoid the problems in the first place: be sensible.
     
  8. bmwjen

    bmwjen Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    If I get diagnosed with a-fib at 35, I will seriously break down and cry. I'm like a total picture of health. For YEARS everyone was like, you are so healthy, you are vegetarian, you work out, you do all the right things..........WHY DO YOU SMOKE?.......so I finally decided to stop, & now this happens?

    I NEVER wanted to stop smoking. I LOVED smoking. Smoking was fabulous to me & I didn't care how much they cost, it was just something I did & I liked it, sorta like sleeping & taking a shower. Smoking was second nature to me. Smoking never caused atrial fibrillation though. Afib is dangerous. I've cardioverted people numerous times. I've also hung drugs that worked to "cardiovert" a person without shocking their heart back into sync.
    Afib leads to CVA..............if you have afib you go on coumadin...........if you are on coumadin you need to be super careful about alot of things.

    This makes me wanna bust out crying right now.
     
  9. rolygate

    rolygate Forum Manager Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    It looks as if it's not a-fib in your case, just tachycardia. But it could be a warning sign telling you to cut back. I think that as many millions more people convert, we'll see a lot more of this as it is just too easy to overdo the nic.

    I hope that it may be found that e-cig tachy or even a-fib caused by overdoing the nic is a symptom of current poisoning and once the toxin level is reduced, it will go. We don't know because this is new ground. Cut right back as much as you can, let's see if it just disappears. Inability to sleep and tachycardia look like symptoms of current levels too high, no doubt it will all fade away when you cut down.

    There are some people who show no signs whatsoever of nic poisoning, no matter how much they consume, at the normal retail nic levels anyway. They get no headaches, dizziness, slurred speech etc. Because they do not experience these normal signs of over-use, they don't know when to cut back. These are the people who it seems to me (from a couple of reports received) that need to take special note of the fact that you cannot consume unlimited amounts of some substances - there is a consequence.

    I'm beginning to feel that we could start looking at how to advise people to plan to cut down their nic level after they get over the first big hump, maybe after three months in. It makes sense.
     
  10. flbutterfly1

    flbutterfly1 Ultra Member ECF Veteran

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    I just had the same experience last week. I have been using 6mg for the last year after dropping from 16mg. I got the heart pounding, sweating, all I wanted to do was sleep but I couldn't and it took 2 days to get back to feeling anywhere near normal. I just had to drop to 0mg. I have been trying to use my 4mg still too much nic so I cut it to 2mg and still I am getting dizzy. I find this odd after a year of 6mg all the time. I was using my usual juice out of the same bottle as the week before same PV and still felt like I had overdosed. I think it is time for me to drop down to 0mg for good. I still feel the craving for nic though and when I try to use it I get the heart pounding and a headache and nausea. I think my body has finally decided to reject nic but my mind is still wanting it. I feel naked without nic but sick with it. Maybe this is temporary and I will be able to use my 4 and 6mg again. I don't know it really scares me when I have all those symptoms.
     
  11. rolygate

    rolygate Forum Manager Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Also we need to remember that some liquids will cause intolerance issues for some people. There are some types of VG that should not be used for the purpose of inhalation, but probably are. There are hundreds of flavorings now being inhaled for the first time, and we have no idea at all of their effects on those who could be intolerant to them.

    So it is worth saying that in addition to cutting back on the nic, trying several other vendor's products is probably also a good idea. I'm sure that some of the tales we have heard elsewhere are intolerance/allergy issues, some of them not to be dismissed lightly.
     
  12. Numanoid

    Numanoid Full Member

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    Another factor that may have played a part was caffine. I had a similar experience that was most likely caffine induced (though not helped by my smoking and vaping as well.) I had the classic tachycardia and seriously freaked myself out. My heart seemed to be racing so I put on my heart monitor to see if it was. My resting heart rate was 135 and then when I found that out it went to 170+ for about 5 minutes. I popped some aspirin (just in case) and called someone up to explain what was happening. I more or less calmed down after 5-10 minutes but even then my RHR was in the 130s.

    For me, I cut out the red bulls and made sure I was hydrated. Never had the issue again.
     
  13. bmwjen

    bmwjen Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I am ZERO caffeine on my days off.
    On the days I work I drink 2 Diet Rockstars in the morning :)
     
  14. bmwjen

    bmwjen Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    I thank those that have contributed to this thread, especially rolygate (wealth of knowledge). Over the last few months i've seriously debated with whether or not I should quit vaping. Instead, I cut my nic from 24 to 6 with no problems. Then just the other day I had the palpatations again.......so I again debated on whether or not to quit vaping. After much thought I've decided to go 100% organic, 0 PG in my juices. This is gonna leave out my favorite vendor (Alien Visions) because their Hype was my all day juice & it is 90%VG and I haven't got around to asking Ben whether or not his flavoring is organic.

    Last night I went ahead & ordered some flavors from Natures Flavors,and some juice from Vaperite and Dripeez which is 100% organic and 100% VG. Dripeez is located here in Texas, and does a cold extraction process to flavor their juices. While the price of this flavoring & pre-mixed juices is substantially higher than other vendors, it's worth a try in order to isolate my symptoms.

    I've also posted an ad in the ECF classifieds to see if anyone has stuff from the above mentioned vendors that they are looking to offload.

    I was a pack a day smoker & NEVER had shortness or breath, palpatations or ANY negative side effects, & I had been smoking for 20 years. I mean, I could do an hour on the treadmill at 24hour fitness, run outside have a smoke, then run back into the gym & hit up a zumba class, then light a cigarette before I even pulled out of my gym's parking lot to head home.

    To me, it's totally worth it to try and isolate the problem ingredients in my vape juice before giving up vaping totally. I've discussed it with my husband at length & told him that I can already see me going 2 days without vaping, then heading to the store to buy a pack of cigarettes.

    I received a PM today from another RN on ECF encouraging me to join the private "medical professionals forum" here on ECF. I responded that I have tried three times, and since DAY 1 that I joined ECF to join the forum, even including all of my license numbers and credentials to the proper ECF contact person, but have been told "the forum software can't add anyone". So, I don't know if i'm getting the run around, or if that is really the case.

    Another thing i'm also wondering about is mods. Maybe ecigs were only meant to be as strong as a joye 510 is, & when the battery dies, the vaper is MEANT to take a break from vaping. Then the E-cig community in attempt to perfect things came out with high voltage, variable voltage, & all sorts of other things to give the vaper immediate gratification. I am guilty of this, I've got every mod that I could want (except for 2, lol), & my husband is a modder. Maybe we were really meant to inhale what a standard joye 510 ecig would give us. I don't have any simple joye 510 batteries left since i've given them all away, but I do have a few Riva batteries & a VP1 that runs on a 10440 battery. So, my next step in isolating the cause of my symptoms will be to not use my mods anymore. :(

    I'm honestly looking at flavoring and excess PG inhalation as the cause of my symptoms though.

    Thanks again for contributing to this thread. PLEASE feel free to contribute :)
     
  15. txteatime

    txteatime Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Unfortunately, I have Lupus (SLE) and am susceptible to heart problems, including scary bouts of tachycardia that I've experienced long before vaping, so when I was having some bad episodes of palpitations last week, I didn't know if it was just my usual issues or from vaping too much. Honestly, I think it was a bit of both.

    However, it's gotten a LOT better since my supplies arrived and I started mixing my own juices. I'm doing great on 6 mg. of nicotine. I'm beginning to be able to tell the difference. Nic-related heart stuff causes a really rapid, pounding heartbeat that lasts a while whereas my Lupus-related issues are bad rhythms and don't last as long. Since I dropped down to 6 mg., I haven't had any of the rapid heartbeats.

    I should add that my mixes are about 80 percent VG and it's made adifference. I didn't do well with PG liquids -- they gave me a bad sore throat and it seems the palpitations were worse with PG liquid, too.
     
  16. bmwjen

    bmwjen Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Thanks txteatime! I appreciate you chiming in here :)
    I ALWAYS tried to buy the highest vg available, even since I started vaping. Right now my favorite vendor makes my "allday" at 90%VG. I don't want to kick that juice to the curb immediately, but I may have to. :(

    I didn't have any problems when I dropped from 24 to 6mg up until Sunday night...........when the palpatations started again while I was at rest. So, I had been at 6mg for about 2 months, & then the problems started again. I had been using TV POB in a tank pretty heavily about that time, & it was 50%VG, so i'm at the point of trying to narrow down the cause of my symptoms.
    Thanks again for posting here. I honestly appreciate it.
     
  17. Ak8s

    Ak8s Full Member

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    Have you considered these may be panic attacks?
     
  18. bmwjen

    bmwjen Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

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    Thanks for your response,
    They are not panic attacks........it's a long story about how I know this & I won't disclose it here. Those that know me on ECF know how I know this. :)

     
  19. surfsuphere

    surfsuphere Senior Member ECF Veteran

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    Thanks for sharing your story. Hope you can find a happy place with your juice and hardware.

    You brought up interesting point of how Mods are cranking up the volts.....

    Question - if I used to smoke a pack of regular strength Winston analogs
    And I'm using 24mg 70/30 juice now

    How many ml of juice EQUALS the nic content of a pack of smokes ?


    A thought to the Modders - give me a HIT display so over a course of a day, I can see how many times I pressed the button

    I KNOW I would love the device to track my daily hits
     
  20. loden813

    loden813 Super Member ECF Veteran

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    All of this is very interesting...I've stopped the pg80 / vg20 ratio I used since starting on Friday - 2 days ago. Only using 100% vg now. The rash and itching I've had for the past 3 months were really getting bad. I hope this switch helps, but I hated giving up my faves...took so long to find them!
    I hope your changes work for you!
     
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