Sony issues statement regarding battery usage in APVs

[LilWhiteClouder]

I just got this e-mail from My Freedom Smokes:

Dear MFS Customer,

Our records indicate that you have purchased one or more Sony VTC 18650-size batteries from MyFreedomSmokes. This letter is to inform you of an important advisory from Sony Electronics, the manufacturer of the VTC4 and VTC5 batteries, regarding the use of these products in vaping devices.

Sony has stated that the VTC battery is not intended for use in any vaping/electronic cigarette device, and that the use of their batteries in such devices presents a danger of fire or explosion.

Sony has not indicated that the VTC batteries are faulty in any way, nor have they issued any recall on VTC batteries, however they have made clear that they are in no way responsible for improper use of their batteries in unapproved devices such as vaping box mods and mechanical mods.

Following our receipt of this letter, MyFreedomSmokes has decided to stop selling Sony VTC4 and VTC5 18650-size batteries. We also wish to inform you, as the owner of one or more VTC batteries, that you are solely responsible for how you choose to use your VTC battery or batteries. As a responsible and well-informed vaper, you should be aware of the risks associated with the use of high-amperage batteries in any application, including vaping. More information on 18650 battery safety is available here:http://onvaping.com/battery-safety-and-ohms-law/

Below is the letter from Sony Electronics in its entirety:

Sony Electronics Inc.
16535 Via Esprillo, San Diego, CA
92127
2/4/2016
My Freedom Smokes
1039 Carrier Dr.
Charlotte, NC 28216
support@myfreedomsmokes.com
Dear Sir/Madam:
It has come to our attention that you are offering, or have in the past offered, lithium-ion rechargeable battery cells, purportedly manufactured or supplied by Sony, for sale or use with e-cigarettes, vaporizer pens or other such products. Bona fide battery cells that are manufactured by Sony are at times commonly designated or known as Sony "VTC" battery cells. These battery cells were made only to be used in connection with the assembly of battery packs of products such as power tools, which have the necessary enclosure, protective devices and circuitry that enable safe usage of these battery cells. Sony lithium-ion rechargeable battery cells (including those with "VTC" designation) are not intended for use without such packaging or circuitry, and should not be used as a stand-alone product for instance with e-cigarettes, vaporizer pens or other products of any type.
The use of any Sony lithium ion rechargeable battery cells as a stand-alone product, including with e-cigarettes, vaporizer pens or other products, constitutes a DANGEROUS misuse of the battery cells that poses a SERIOUS RISK of personal injury or property damage. This matter is significant enough that the U.S. Fire Administration, an arm of the U.S. Department of Homeland Security's Federal Emergency Management Agency, released a report (https://www.usfa.fema.gov/downloads/pdf/publications/electronic_cigarettes.pdf) in October 2014 warning against the dangers involved with improper battery cell use, storage and charging of battery cells in e-cigarettes. See also a recent statement from the Consumer Technology Association on lithium ion battery safety available at http://www.ce.org/Consumer-Info/Battery-Safety.aspx. Accordingly, if you are currently selling or distributing stand-alone Sony lithium-ion rechargeable battery cells, other than in the condition and for the purpose originally intended by Sony, you must immediately cease doing so. Sony believes that you should also immediately notify any person to whom you have sold or supplied any stand-alone Sony lithium-ion rechargeable battery cells of the danger associated with the misuse of such battery cells and instruct them to immediately cease using and return the cells to you.
Please contact Sony's consumer product safety office at cps@am.sony.comshould you have any questions or concerns.
Very truly yours,
Julio Posse
Director of Product Safety

Will other battery companies follow suit? Is this just to cover their a**es if something goes wrong?

It is crazy that they said they must immediately stop selling the standalone batteries. Thoughts?

 

[edyle]

Yes it's a coveryouraaaa maneuvre by Sony.

 

[defdock]

Will other battery companies follow suit? Is this just to cover their a**es if something goes wrong?

It is crazy that they said they must immediately stop selling the standalone batteries. Thoughts?

Honestly, I'm glad this is being done on Sonys part. As they state, the batteries were made in battery packs for specific devices - somewhere someone "tampered" with the pack to obtain the cells individually - warranty and other "company saftey" is thrown out the window.

It's to save their buttocks - it be similar to me putting a Dodge motor in a Honda and then something happened, it was never intended for that "device"

As far as other companies following suit, Samsung MAY for one line of their batteries witch I think also is "only" designated for battery packs. I don't think others like efest or whoever will follow as they have no intended reason for so.

 

[sonicbomb]

I'm pretty sure that this has been Sony's stance on us using their cells right from the beginning.

 

[LilWhiteClouder]

I wasn't aware that Sonys were not sold for standalone use. Also, am I correct in assuming this is the case for all unprotected cells?

 

[Asbestos4004]

Honestly, I'm glad this is being done on Sonys part. As they state, the batteries were made in battery packs for specific devices - somewhere someone "tampered" with the pack to obtain the cells individually - warranty and other "company saftey" is thrown out the window.

It's to save their buttocks - it be similar to me putting a Dodge motor in a Honda and then something happened, it was never intended for that "device"

As far as other companies following suit, Samsung MAY for one line of their batteries witch I think also is "only" designated for battery packs. I don't think others like efest or whoever will follow as they have no intended reason for so.

Agreed.

 

[VHRB2014]

Yes, it may come as "new" news to some, but its old news in the hobby. Sony has never wanted their battery's associated with the use of PV`s.

 

[Baditude]

I'm pretty sure that this has been Sony's stance on us using their cells right from the beginning.

I wasn't aware that Sonys were not sold for standalone use. Also, am I correct in assuming this is the case for all unprotected cells?

These batteries were not originally intended for what we are using them for. In fact, I have read that Panasonic, Sanyo, Sony, and Samsung, don't even like the fact that we're using these batteries because they were not intended for single cell, unprotected use in any consumer device. The fact that they're available can be attributed to modders of flashlights, pen lasers, and bicycle electronics. A demand formed around those markets and it was filled by various folks, and then e-cigs came along and the demand skyrocketed.

A large percentage of the Samsung, Sony, LG cells are used in multi-cell configurations, i.e., battery packs in hybrid automobiles and cordless power tools. These battery packs have their own battery management system (BMS) that ensures configurable, consistent protection at desired current, voltage, and temperature settings to ensure long battery pack life.

As vapers, we are primarily using single battery cells alone by themselves, which often means we may be using these single cells at or above their recommended specifications for a single cell. This application is not the intended use for these cells. Therefore, using these batteries in a single cell use in a vaporizer is at the user's risk. Using them in a mechanical mod with sub-ohm coils with coil resistances which are over-specced for the battery's continous discharge rate increases the risk of battery damage exponentially.

multi-cell battery pack with battery management system (BMS)

 

[LilWhiteClouder]

These batteries were not originally intended for what we are using them for. In fact, I have read that Panasonic, Sanyo, Sony, and Samsung, don't even like the fact that we're using these batteries because they were not intended for single cell, unprotected use in any consumer device. The fact that they're available can be attributed to modders of flashlights, pen lasers, and bicycle electronics. A demand formed around those markets and it was filled by various folks, and then e-cigs came along and the demand skyrocketed.

A large percentage of the Samsung, Sony, LG cells are used in multi-cell configurations, i.e., battery packs in hybrid automobiles and cordless power tools. These battery packs have their own battery management system (BMS) that ensures configurable, consistent protection at desired current, voltage, and temperature settings to ensure long battery pack life. As vapers, we are primarily using single battery cells alone by themselves, which often means we may be using these single cells at or above their recommended specifications for a single cell. This application is not the intended use for these cells.

multi-cell battery pack with battery management system (BMS)

This begs the question, are these companies working to create batteries better suited for the vaping industry? I know there are protected batts out there but their performance seems to be inadequate.

 

[Baditude]

This begs the question, are these companies working to create batteries better suited for the vaping industry? I know there are protected batts out there but their performance seems to be inadequate.

The battery industry leaders (Sony, Samsung, LG) are not working to create better suited batteries for the vaping industry. As stated above, they don't even want us using them for vaping. Consumers who use these batteries for vaping are but a small fraction of the battery market. So there is no financial interest to invest in developing a battery for vaping.

There are some minor battery manufacturers who may be marketing their batteries for the vaping market, but for the most part they don't even make their own batteries. They are buying the second and third bin (rejects) batteries from Sony, Samsung, and LG ... re-wrapping them with their own wrapper ... and then advertising over-rated amp ratings to scam consumers to buy them. Mooch has bench tested many of these batteries and found that none of them are 30 - 60 amp batteries as advertised, but only 20 amps CDR at best.

18650 Battery Safety Grades -- Picking a Safe Cell to Vape With

There are no 18650 batteries with a genuine rating over 30A!

 

[Completely Average]

This begs the question, are these companies working to create batteries better suited for the vaping industry? I know there are protected batts out there but their performance seems to be inadequate.

I think LG is actually making batteries with vaping in mind. They are the only ones making a true 30A Continuous Drain battery, which really serves no purpose outside of vaping. I have no proof of this, but really, what other purpose is there for a 30A 18650 battery when no one else makes them?

 

[LilWhiteClouder]

The battery industry leaders (Sony, Samsung, LG) are not working to create better suited batteries for the vaping industry. As stated above, they don't even want us using them for vaping. Consumers who use these batteries for vaping are but a small fraction of the battery market. So there is no financial interest to invest in developing a battery for vaping.

There are some minor battery manufacturers who may be marketing their batteries for the vaping market, but for the most part they don't even make their own batteries. They are buying the second and third bin (rejects) batteries from Sony, Samsung, and LG...re-wrapping them with their own wrapper...and then advertising over-rated amp ratings to scam consumers to buy them. Mooch has bench tested many of these batteries and found that none of them are 30 - 60 amp batteries as advertised, but only 20 amps CDR at best.

I was going to ask about those guys. Vappower and kangertech and some others rewrapping batts and telling us how much better suited to vaping they are. Very misleading. I don't even need to mention Efest as misleading seems to be their MO:/

 

[tmcguffie]

Would the use of VTC4's and 5's in a vibrating pleasure inducing device constitute a dangerous misuse of their lithium ion rechargeable battery cells, would they work better with 26650's and how would the authorities react to this ? Answers on a postcard to --- (Does anybody remember the postcard thing, might be giving away my age a bit)
If a company produces a quality battery that delivers on the voltage, amps and Milliamp hour as claimed by the company and does not have an inherent fault, them IMO the end user should be solely responsible for the use or misuse of that battery.
If lawyers wrote the small statement above, it would end up the size of a phone book, things get complicated very fast when those bloodsuckers get in on the act

 

[sonicbomb]

Sony require us to vacate their lawn.

 

[ReigntheGamer]

Sony require us to vacate their rawn.

FTFY.

 

[LilWhiteClouder]

Sony require us to vacate their lawn.

If Sony wants us off their lawn, they are going to have to turn the sprinklers on.
I'm not giving up my vtc4s just yet.

 

[Topwater Elvis]

No actual battery / cell manufacturer is even in the very least bit interested in the vaping market.
We use their cells in a manner which is outside of the scope / beyond their designed intent.

 

[Mike 586]

This begs the question, are these companies working to create batteries better suited for the vaping industry? I know there are protected batts out there but their performance seems to be inadequate.

Its not the battery manufacturers that are the issue here. Batteries like Sony's VTC series, Samsung, and LG batteries meet most of the requirements of standards like UL 1642 or IEC 62133 and are perfectly safe when used in properly designed products, many of which include extremely high drain (some switching from charge to drain in an instant i.e. regenerative breaking to name one) applications with a stellar track record in terms of safety.

Samsung, Sony, LG and the rest would be more than thrilled to have more customers and would have zero issues selling to the vaping industry if the industry were manufacturing good products that meet industry standards.

If gear were forced to meet UL or IEC standards, which is easily possible, 99% of what is being produced today would be off the market. To sell products manufacturers have outright thrown thoughts of what 18650s are capable and safety standards out the window and only concern themselves with the false perception of safety and more importantly a bigger number in front of the W and smaller one by the ohm symbol. Because that's what sells and that's what its naive client base wants.

 

[LilWhiteClouder]

Its not the battery manufacturers that are the issue here. Batteries like Sony's VTC series, Samsung, and LG batteries meet most of the requirements of standards like UL 1642 or IEC 62133 and are perfectly safe when used in properly designed products, many of which include extremely high drain (some switching from charge to drain in an instant i.e. regenerative breaking to name one) applications with a stellar track record in terms of safety.

Samsung, Sony, LG and the rest would be more than thrilled to have more customers and would have zero issues selling to the vaping industry if the industry were manufacturing good products that meet industry standards.

If gear were forced to meet UL or IEC standards, which is easily possible, 99% of what is being produced today would be off the market. To sell products manufacturers have outright thrown thoughts of what 18650s are capable and safety standards out the window and only concern themselves with the false perception of safety and more importantly a bigger number in front of the W and smaller one by the ohm symbol. Because that's what sells and that's what its naive client base wants.

Great insight, thanks! Maybe the new FDA regulations will put their minds at ease then.

 

[Completely Average]

If gear were forced to meet UL or IEC standards, which is easily possible, 99% of what is being produced today would be off the market. To sell products manufacturers have outright thrown thoughts of what 18650s are capable and safety standards out the window and only concern themselves with the false perception of safety and more importantly a bigger number in front of the W and smaller one by the ohm symbol. Because that's what sells and that's what its naive client base wants.

I don't think regulated mods are the problem, and the vast majority have safety limits that are well within the safe limits of the battery. I think the real problem is that these batteries find their way into unregulated mech mods, and there are absolutely no safety measures of any kind with those. There's nothing stopping someone from throwing a .05 ohm coil onto a 15A battery with a mech mod, but the voltage drop would be so great that a regulated mod would refuse to fire it. That's assuming that the regulated mod would even fire a .05ohm coil, which most won't.